Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

[calimero]

I made another floppy with EmuTOS but again I get same error after few seconds of floppy trying to load data.

It seems that two floppy drives on my Amigas 1200 are not aligned properly or something else making this problem...

btw
but like czietz said, probably NemBench will not work anyway...

[Badwolf]

I highly doubt NEMBENCH will run on the Amiga, even under EmuTOS. Afaik, NEMBENCH directly accesses the MFP for accurate time measurements - and this will obviously not work an an Amiga.

Ah. Yep. That'll scupper that!

A pity you couldn't get EmuTOS working anyway.

BW

[Cyprian]

Kronos should works on EmuTOS on Amiga/Vampire

[Badwolf]

Kronos should works on EmuTOS on Amiga/Vampire

Kronos' speed figures are a bit hand-wavy, though aren't they?



Anyway, if we can assume there's a degree of commonality in the results produced by bustest on the Amiga and Nembench/Memspeed on the Falcon then we see the slowest Amiga FastRAM stat is comparable with the fastest Falcon ST RAM stat.

It's then a matter of taste as to whether you consider the average gains of FastRAM outweigh the average losses of Chip RAM.

Personally, I'd probably say yes, but if you're only interested in playing Sensible Soccer, probably not.
BW

[1st1]

Anyone with an A1200 + Fastmem (but not a CPU booster)?

Are you sure that this exists?

My A1200 has a 68020-16 (14!) in the trapdoor to have fastmem over 16MB. Below 16 MB makes not much sense IF you still want to use the PCMCIA slot...

[calimero]

Anyone with an A1200 + Fastmem (but not a CPU booster)?

Are you sure that this exists?

Like this one that I have ?
https://bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboa ... px?id=1048

I will try Kronos then on Amiga with EmuTOS...
Or someone could write a loop in asembler as memory speed test?

Btw
I found documentation: https://archive.org/details/M-TEC_Turbo ... sign_A1200

(Somehow I forgot to use DuckDuckGo instead of nazi Google)

[1st1]

It has CPU.

[Cyprian]

Anyone with an A1200 + Fastmem (but not a CPU booster)?

Are you sure that this exists?

My A1200 has a 68020-16 (14!) in the trapdoor to have fastmem over 16MB. Below 16 MB makes not much sense IF you still want to use the PCMCIA slot...

68ec020 has no support for more than 16MB RAM. It has 24 pins for address lines.
It means either you install a trapdoor card with max 8MB Fast Ram for 68ec020 or install a trapdoor card with a full CPU which supports more than 16MB address space and fast ram.

[mrbombermillzy]

I sold my 1200 about 3 years ago, (just before they became expensive! ) which had a 4MB FAST RAM with no booster.

IIRC it could have 8MB, but the PCMCIA would clash with that so I kept it at 4.

[calimero]

It has CPU.

Who has CPU?
M-Tec A1200 speeder? It is an FPU... or socket for FPU like mine.

More interesting is the price of this card back in 1993. with 4MB of RAM...

[1st1]

Ok, the original picture was too small to differentiate between CPU and FPU. I have a different one which has CPU, but speed is still the same, it's just to have memory above 16 MB. So the lower adress range is not occupied to fully support the PCMCIA port which works memory adressed.

[Cyprian]

I've added Amiga 1200 accelerators: Apollo 1260, BFG9060, TF1260, Warp1260 and CyberStorm
https://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=33121.0
http://obligement.free.fr/articles/actu ... 082022.php

Code: Select all

                                        Read LW (MB/s)   Write LW (MB/s)
Falcon 030/16, ST-ram                            5.345             6.488
Falcon 030/16, Magnum Fastram                    5.704             6.898
Falcon 060/100, ST-ram                           5.784             9.694
Falcon 060/100, Fastram                         95.325            94.296
TT 030/32, ST-ram                                7.867             7.867
TT 030/32, Fastram                              12.615            15.772
TT 030/48, ST-ram                                7.972             7.848
TT 030/48, Fastram                              26.109            31.170
Stacy PAK030, ST-ram                             2.622             3.573
ST PAK68/3-030 50Mhz ST-ram                      3.917             3.917
ST PAK68/3-030 50Mhz Fastram                    31.282            27.507
Amiga 600, Fastram                               2.300             2.300
Amiga 600, Chipram                               2.200             2.300
Amiga 1200, 020/14, Chipram                      4.500             6.900
Amiga 1200, 020/14, Fastram (M-Tec 0-waitstate)  9.100             13.400
Amiga 1200, 030/40, Chipram                      7.000             6.900
Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1230@50 60ns, Chipram       4.400             6.900
Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1230@50 60ns, Fastram      24.500            32.400
Amiga 3000, 030/25, Chipram                      5.200             7.000
Amiga 3000, 030/25, Fastram                     12.100            16.100
Amiga 4000, 030/25, Chipram                      3.100             4.300
Amiga 4000, 030/25, Fastram                     12.100            16.100
Amiga 4000, 060/50, Fastram                     46.100            33.500

Amiga  1200:
Apollo 1260 @ 50MHz, Fastram                    25.900            17.600
Apollo 1260 @ 80MHz, Fastram                    41.900            28.400
BFG9060 (68060-TK) at 100 MHz, Fastram          93,200            88,10
TF1260 at 100 MHz, Fastram                      83,000            74,20
Warp1260 at 105 MHz, Fastram                    75,600            55,60
CyberStorm Mk3 68060 at 75 MHz, Fastram         71,900            54,80

[mikro]

Rodolphe can be rightfully proud of his product. To this day it is the fastest 060 accelerator ever created.

[Cyprian]

that's true.
Would it be cool to have it in my TT

[Cyprian]

I've added AB40, CT1 e2/e3, CT2 Rev A and CT2 Rev B from Nembench results (ZIP file) from http://centek.free.fr/atari/ct2/ct2_bnch.htm

Code: Select all

                                        Read LW (MB/s)   Write LW (MB/s)
Falcon 030/16, ST-RAM                            5.345             6.488
Falcon 030/16, Magnum FAST-RAM                   5.704             6.898
Falcon CT1 e2/e3 - ST-RAM                        8.4              10.2
Falcon CT2 Rev A - ST-RAM                       10.2              11.5 
Falcon CT2 Rev A - FAST-RAM  	                31.2              32.2 
Falcon CT2 Rev B - ST-RAM                       10.288            11.538
Falcon CT2 Rev B - FAST-RAM	                32.483            38.778
Falcon AB40 - ST-RAM                             5.092             4.879
Falcon AB40 - FAST-RAM  	                34.629            17.055
Falcon 060/100, ST-RAM                           5.784             9.694
Falcon 060/100, Fastram                         95.325            94.296
TT 030/32, ST-RAM                                7.867             7.867
TT 030/32, FAST-RAM                             12.615            15.772
TT 030/48, ST-RAM                                7.972             7.848
TT 030/48, FAST-RAM                             26.109            31.170
Stacy PAK030, ST-RAM                             2.622             3.573
ST PAK68/3-030 50Mhz ST-RAM                      3.917             3.917
ST PAK68/3-030 50Mhz FAST-RAM                   31.282            27.507
Amiga 600, Fastram                               2.300             2.300
Amiga 600, Chipram                               2.200             2.300
Amiga 1200, 020/14, Chipram                      4.500             6.900
Amiga 1200, 020/14, Fastram (M-Tec 0-waitstate)  9.100             13.400
Amiga 1200, 030/40, Chipram                      7.000             6.900
Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1230@50 60ns, Chipram       4.400             6.900
Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1230@50 60ns, Fastram      24.500            32.400
Amiga 1200, Apollo 1260 @ 50MHz, Fastram        25.900            17.600
Amiga 1200, Apollo 1260 @ 80MHz, Fastram        41.900            28.400
Amiga 1200, CyberStorm Mk3 68060 75 MHz, Fastram 71.900            54.80
Amiga 1200, TF1260 100MHz, Fastram              83.000            74.20
Amiga 1200, Warp1260 105MHz, Fastram            75.600            55.60
Amiga 1200, BFG9060 68060-TK 100 MHz, Fastram   93.200            88.10
Amiga 3000, 030/25, Chipram                      5.200             7.000
Amiga 3000, 030/25, Fastram                     12.100            16.100
Amiga 4000, 030/25, Chipram                      3.100             4.300
Amiga 4000, 030/25, Fastram                     12.100            16.100
Amiga 4000, 060/50, Fastram                     46.100            33.500

[DarkLord]

@ Cyprian

Just for accuracy's sake, that STacy entry is probably mine (are there any other
STacy owners out there that have a Pak accelerator on board? I know Derkom
has a TF accelerator in his).

If so, you might want to add that it is the "PAK68/3-030 40Mhz ST-RAM", to be
consistent with the other Pak entries. Why 40mhz and not 50? I'm not sure. I
never could get it to be stable at 50mhz although it is rock-solid at 40 and will
run for hours, even with heavy use without crashing.

HTH's.

[Xerus]

Rodolphe can be rightfully proud of his product. To this day it is the fastest 060 accelerator ever created.

And having spoken to him face-to-face several times, we're nowhere near the theoretical maximum!
He could have done better, but it would have cost more...
And something you don't see in these benchmarks is that ST-RAM (or CHIP-RAM) performance isn't reduced as it can be on many Amiga cards, where performance can drop off enormously!
He's really done a great job.

[mikro]

Not only Amiga cards, look at AfterBurner's ST RAM access times, painfully slow.

[Cyprian]

@ Cyprian

Just for accuracy's sake, that STacy entry is probably mine (are there any other
STacy owners out there that have a Pak accelerator on board? I know Derkom
has a TF accelerator in his).

If so, you might want to add that it is the "PAK68/3-030 40Mhz ST-RAM", to be
consistent with the other Pak entries. Why 40mhz and not 50? I'm not sure. I
never could get it to be stable at 50mhz although it is rock-solid at 40 and will
run for hours, even with heavy use without crashing.

HTH's.

done

Code: Select all

                                        Read LW (MB/s)   Write LW (MB/s)
Falcon 030/16, ST-RAM                            5.345             6.488
Falcon 030/16, Magnum FAST-RAM                   5.704             6.898
Falcon CT1 e2/e3, ST-RAM                         8.4              10.2
Falcon CT2 Rev A, ST-RAM                        10.2              11.5 
Falcon CT2 Rev A, FAST-RAM  	                31.2              32.2 
Falcon CT2 Rev B, ST-RAM                        10.288            11.538
Falcon CT2 Rev B, FAST-RAM                      32.483            38.778
Falcon AB40, ST-RAM                              5.092             4.879
Falcon AB40, FAST-RAM  	                        34.629            17.055
Falcon 060/100, ST-RAM                           5.784             9.694
Falcon 060/100, Fastram                         95.325            94.296
TT 030/32, ST-RAM                                7.867             7.867
TT 030/32, FAST-RAM                             12.615            15.772
TT 030/48, ST-RAM                                7.972             7.848
TT 030/48, FAST-RAM                             26.109            31.170
Stacy PAK68/3-030 40Mhz ST-RAM, ST-RAM           2.622             3.573
ST PAK68/3-030 50Mhz, ST-RAM                     3.917             3.917
ST PAK68/3-030 50Mhz, FAST-RAM                  31.282            27.507
Amiga 600, Fastram                               2.300             2.300
Amiga 600, Chipram                               2.200             2.300
Amiga 1200, 020/14, Chipram                      4.500             6.900
Amiga 1200, 020/14, Fastram (M-Tec 0-waitstate)  9.100             13.400
Amiga 1200, 030/40, Chipram                      7.000             6.900
Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1230@50 60ns, Chipram       4.400             6.900
Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1230@50 60ns, Fastram      24.500            32.400
Amiga 1200, Apollo 1260 @ 50MHz, Fastram        25.900            17.600
Amiga 1200, Apollo 1260 @ 80MHz, Fastram        41.900            28.400
Amiga 1200, CyberStorm Mk3 68060 75 MHz, Fastram 71.900            54.80
Amiga 1200, TF1260 100MHz, Fastram              83.000            74.20
Amiga 1200, Warp1260 105MHz, Fastram            75.600            55.60
Amiga 1200, BFG9060 68060-TK 100 MHz, Fastram   93.200            88.10
Amiga 3000, 030/25, Chipram                      5.200             7.000
Amiga 3000, 030/25, Fastram                     12.100            16.100
Amiga 4000, 030/25, Chipram                      3.100             4.300
Amiga 4000, 030/25, Fastram                     12.100            16.100
Amiga 4000, 060/50, Fastram                     46.100            33.500

[Cyprian]

Two new Amiga bencharks:

A1200 stock with M1207 fast ram https://amiga.resource.cx/exp/marpet1208:
https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=15 ... stcount=30

Code: Select all

BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv)   Buffer:     262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
========================================================================
memtype   addr       op         cycle     calib         bandwidth
fast      $002E0000  readw     573.5 ns   normal       3.5 * 10^6 byte/s
fast      $002E0000  readl     573.7 ns   normal       7.0 * 10^6 byte/s

fast      $002E0000  writew    358.5 ns   normal       5.6 * 10^6 byte/s
fast      $002E0000  writel    359.0 ns   normal      11.1 * 10^6 byte/s

A4000 with Apollo A4040/40MHz:
https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=16 ... stcount=34

Code: Select all

BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv) Buffer: 262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
========================================================================
memtype addr op cycle calib bandwidth
fast $081C0000 readw 44.3 ns normal 45.1 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $081C0000 readl 82.4 ns normal 48.6 * 10^6 byte/s

fast $081C0000 writew 70.2 ns normal 28.5 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $081C0000 writel 139.7 ns normal 28.6 * 10^6 byte/s

chip $00030000 readw 895.5 ns normal 2.2 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00030000 readl 897.5 ns normal 4.5 * 10^6 byte/s

chip $00030000 writew 898.9 ns normal 2.2 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $00030000 writel 897.1 ns normal 4.5 * 10^6 byte/s

All tests:

Code: Select all

                                        Read LW (MB/s)   Write LW (MB/s)
Falcon 030/16, ST-RAM                            5.345             6.488
Falcon 030/16, Magnum FAST-RAM                   5.704             6.898
Falcon CT1 e2/e3, ST-RAM                         8.4              10.2
Falcon CT2 Rev A, ST-RAM                        10.2              11.5 
Falcon CT2 Rev A, FAST-RAM  	                31.2              32.2 
Falcon CT2 Rev B, ST-RAM                        10.288            11.538
Falcon CT2 Rev B, FAST-RAM                      32.483            38.778
Falcon AB40, ST-RAM                              5.092             4.879
Falcon AB40, FAST-RAM  	                        34.629            17.055
Falcon 060/100, ST-RAM                           5.784             9.694
Falcon 060/100, Fastram                         95.325            94.296
TT 030/32, ST-RAM                                7.867             7.867
TT 030/32, FAST-RAM                             12.615            15.772
TT 030/48, ST-RAM                                7.972             7.848
TT 030/48, FAST-RAM                             26.109            31.170
Stacy PAK68/3-030 40Mhz ST-RAM, ST-RAM           2.622             3.573
ST PAK68/3-030 50Mhz, ST-RAM                     3.917             3.917
ST PAK68/3-030 50Mhz, FAST-RAM                  31.282            27.507
Amiga 600, Fastram                               2.300             2.300
Amiga 600, Chipram                               2.200             2.300
Amiga 1200, 020/14, Chipram                      4.500             6.900
Amiga 1200, 020/14, Fastram (M1207)              7.000             11.100
Amiga 1200, 020/14, Fastram (M-Tec 0-waitstate)  9.100             13.400
Amiga 1200, 030/40, Chipram                      7.000             6.900
Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1230@50 60ns, Chipram       4.400             6.900
Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1230@50 60ns, Fastram      24.500            32.400
Amiga 1200, Apollo 1260 @ 50MHz, Fastram        25.900            17.600
Amiga 1200, Apollo 1260 @ 80MHz, Fastram        41.900            28.400
Amiga 1200, CyberStorm Mk3 68060 75 MHz, Fastram 71.900            54.80
Amiga 1200, TF1260 100MHz, Fastram              83.000            74.20
Amiga 1200, Warp1260 105MHz, Fastram            75.600            55.60
Amiga 1200, BFG9060 68060-TK 100 MHz, Fastram   93.200            88.10
Amiga 3000, 030/25, Chipram                      5.200             7.000
Amiga 3000, 030/25, Fastram                     12.100            16.100
Amiga 4000, 030/25, Chipram                      3.100             4.300
Amiga 4000, 030/25, Fastram                     12.100            16.100
Amiga 4000, 040/40, Chipram                      4.500             4.500
Amiga 4000, 040/40, Fastram                     48.600            28.600
Amiga 4000, 060/50, Fastram                     46.100            33.500