Using the Falcon's expansion connector

[MegaSTEarian]

Whish what you're working on could recombined with something like that https://oshwlab.com/Renee/buffee-accelerator

[Badwolf]

Whish what you're working on could recombined with something like that https://oshwlab.com/Renee/buffee-accelerator

That's one for the H4/H5 guys over at https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/forum/viewf ... 9037ad0d17, I think. Would suit that system down to the ground.

A 68000 accelerator in a Falcon would be of limited use, I think.

I think the obvious next step would be a 68030 version of PiStorm as 030 emulation is easier than 030 on an FPGA.

BW

[MegaSTEarian]

It can be adjusted to 68030 mode with 68881/2. And I thought if it can be connected to the Falcon expansion connector, which is 68000-ish, running on 68030 it'd seat very well.
PiStorm is a good alternative as well.

Not voting in favor of either as I am not a hardware creations expert but I like both solutions and I feel that the Beefy is going to be a lot more compatible and will allow Videl and other Falcon hardware to really shine if you combine the features with the extra speed and huge amount of really fast RAM.

[Badwolf]

Incidentally, I'll give you guys a quick update from the week's work.

I've done some work on the clock lines on my board and have it running stably at 49MHz, but 50 is still a little unstable. It will run, but not every time and not always for an extended period.

Testing of my CPU (no ALTRAM) shows it can't actually run much above 52MHz anyway, so hoping to clock it up to 66 or whatever isn't going to happen, so me trying to eke the last little bit out CPU speed of my terrible prototype board no longer seems worth it. 48MHz will be enough for the 'stable' target.

I'm now concentrating on tiding up the Verilog and looking to get the AltRAM speeds up. I think it should be able to run at the same speed as a TF536 in an ST(F)(M), but I'm about 20% down at the moment.

The number I've ringed in red is the key -- ignore everything but that and 'Integer Division', they're the only things directly comparable.

memspeed.jpeg

The target is to get that down to 8.580 -- the TF536 speed at equivalent spec.

BW

[MegaSTEarian]

Smaller is better in this case?

Looks really good and promising!

[Badwolf]

It can be adjusted to 68030 mode with 68881/2. And I thought if it can be connected to the Falcon expansion connector, which is 68000-ish, running on 68030 it'd seat very well.
PiStorm is a good alternative as well.

If it can be an 030 using an 68000 pinout, then the interface board would be very simple indeed and you wouldn't need anything on my board!

BW

[MegaSTEarian]

This is what they say, https://www.buffee.ca/about/ check out their blog. In the first post, they say

Screen Shot 2021-02-23 at 11.35.15.png

[alexh]

Buffee and PiSTorm (as I mentioned) both have 16 bit data 24-bit address external buses which make them perfect for the Atari Falcon expansion connector. Internally they can be full 32-bit and can have 68000, 020 or 030 stack frames. The bits that have to change for the Falcon is the address map (Falcon address space, 32-bit DRAM and any peripherals like mass storage) and perhaps some 680x0 signalling not used on the Amiga

Your work is very interesting and I like that you’re doing something new for our Falcons. The CT60e with CPU is still very expensive and not widely available

[MegaSTEarian]

Are there any CT60e's sold? I cannot find any and they are not plug and play which is an issue when dealing with a rare expensive almost 30 years old machine.

Bawolf's work is the best news I've heard for a long time (now if we can get it to work using the internal processor in parallel...)

[dhedberg]

Are there any CT60e's sold? I cannot find any and they are not plug and play which is an issue when dealing with a rare expensive almost 30 years old machine.

The CT60 has sold quite well. There's been numerous batches and versions (CT60, CT63, CT60e). The latest version (CT60e) is plug and play (I don't know about the older CT60 and CT63). Lift out the internal PSU. Plug in the CT60e. Add a 060 CPU and some RAM. Insert a picoPSU into the CT60 and off you go. You may want/need to connect a power switch to the 2 pin PWR_SW header on the CT60e. No soldering needed.

The latest batch of the CT60e (100 cards) was produced about 1.5 years ago and sold out in a few weeks.

[MegaSTEarian]

Are there any CT60e's sold? I cannot find any and they are not plug and play which is an issue when dealing with a rare expensive almost 30 years old machine.

The CT60 has sold quite well. There's been numerous batches and versions (CT60, CT63, CT60e). The latest version (CT60e) is plug and play (I don't know about the older CT60 and CT63). Lift out the internal PSU. Plug in the CT60e. Add a 060 CPU and some RAM. Insert a picoPSU into the CT60 and off you go. You may want/need to connect a power switch to the 2 pin PWR_SW header on the CT60e. No soldering needed.

The previous two weren't. I had heard there was a version that's plug and play but wasn't sure which one it was. Spotted it now.

The latest batch of the CT60e (100 cards) was produced about 1.5 years ago and sold out in a few weeks.

Excellent. But are there any on the market?

[frost]

Are there any CT60e's sold? I cannot find any and they are not plug and play which is an issue when dealing with a rare expensive almost 30 years old machine.

The CT60 has sold quite well. There's been numerous batches and versions (CT60, CT63, CT60e). The latest version (CT60e) is plug and play (I don't know about the older CT60 and CT63). Lift out the internal PSU. Plug in the CT60e. Add a 060 CPU and some RAM. Insert a picoPSU into the CT60 and off you go. You may want/need to connect a power switch to the 2 pin PWR_SW header on the CT60e. No soldering needed.

The previous two weren't. I had heard there was a version that's plug and play but wasn't sure which one it was. Spotted it now.

Sorry to say, but they were plug and play. I had one of the first batch and I simply had to connect it in my Falcon and it worked !

[evil]

The CT60 has sold quite well. There's been numerous batches and versions (CT60, CT63, CT60e). The latest version (CT60e) is plug and play (I don't know about the older CT60 and CT63). Lift out the internal PSU. Plug in the CT60e. Add a 060 CPU and some RAM. Insert a picoPSU into the CT60 and off you go. You may want/need to connect a power switch to the 2 pin PWR_SW header on the CT60e. No soldering needed.

The previous two weren't. I had heard there was a version that's plug and play but wasn't sure which one it was. Spotted it now.

Sorry to say, but they were plug and play. I had one of the first batch and I simply had to connect it in my Falcon and it worked !

Frost is right, I got one of the very first cards and it was plug and play, apart from the first-batch bugs that we had to fix. I've also gotten CT60 cards of later batches as well as the CT63, all are plug and play.

Perhaps you're thinking of the bus acceleration? That's an optional install.

[MegaSTEarian]

The CT60 has sold quite well. There's been numerous batches and versions (CT60, CT63, CT60e). The latest version (CT60e) is plug and play (I don't know about the older CT60 and CT63). Lift out the internal PSU. Plug in the CT60e. Add a 060 CPU and some RAM. Insert a picoPSU into the CT60 and off you go. You may want/need to connect a power switch to the 2 pin PWR_SW header on the CT60e. No soldering needed.

The previous two weren't. I had heard there was a version that's plug and play but wasn't sure which one it was. Spotted it now.

Sorry to say, but they were plug and play. I had one of the first batch and I simply had to connect it in my Falcon and it worked !

CT60 could be fitted without soldering but it could be soldered to enjoy the full benefits (bus, VIDEL, FPU IIRC): http://powerphenix.com/CT60/english/fitting.htm

CT63 was indeed solderless as I see now and so was CT60e.

[MegaSTEarian]

The previous two weren't. I had heard there was a version that's plug and play but wasn't sure which one it was. Spotted it now.

Sorry to say, but they were plug and play. I had one of the first batch and I simply had to connect it in my Falcon and it worked !

Frost is right, I got one of the very first cards and it was plug and play, apart from the first-batch bugs that we had to fix. I've also gotten CT60 cards of later batches as well as the CT63, all are plug and play.

Perhaps you're thinking of the bus acceleration? That's an optional install.

Yes had seen the extra bus acceleration.

But the question is still here (and we're hijacking Badwolf's thread): We cannot buy them now, can we?

[DoG]

...
We cannot buy them now, can we?

Nope. They were available from Retrohax before.

[frank.lukas]

Hello Badwolf, please desgin your Falcon speeder such a Falcon Nova Graphiccard Adapter can fit on top.

Falcon_Nova_klein.jpg

detail_klein.jpg

[MegaSTEarian]

Is there a specific 68030 version that you are using?

[Badwolf]

Is there a specific 68030 version that you are using?

It'll need a full version (with MMU) for best compatibility, but would work without one (at least under EmuTOS, not sure if TOS4 requires an MMU or not).

I've got a ceramic 50MHz which will run up to about 55MHz (but the memory still won't yet ) and a couple of plastic 33MHz ones that will run up to 40MHz.

Depending on how I solve this memory issue I'll either support anything from 33 to 50 or I'll tune it to work at either 40 or 50.

The memory issue is that I couldn't get it to work beyond about 49MHz and even then I was losing a cycle so memory speed was about 15% down on what it should be. My logic isn't meeting the timing criteria, in other words. It needs to be simpler and therefore faster.

I have a complicated clock-switching logic that allows easy interfacing to the Falcon mainboard, but I think this is causing problems with the memory -- imposing too many logic steps to get the speed up -- so I'm trying to rewrite the mainboard access logic to perform XAS/XDTACK resync instead. This may not work, but if it does should make the memory issues simpler.

If I get no-where with this I may do a new board revision to consolidate what I've learned, accept the slower RAM and CPU timings for now, publish and see if I can find any willing HDL gurus to have at the firmware.

BW

[MegaSTEarian]

Cheers, thanks for the explanation. I'm actually quite anxious to see it work.
CPU is like that one?
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/store2/#0187

[Badwolf]

Cheers, thanks for the explanation. I'm actually quite anxious to see it work.
CPU is like that one?
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/store2/#0187

Yep. That's where I got my 50MHz version. The 33s are cheap off Ebay, eg:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1PCS-5PCS-MC ... 3326568204

BW

[MegaSTEarian]

Thanks

[Rustynutt]

Hello Badwolf, please desgin your Falcon speeder such a Falcon Nova Graphiccard Adapter can fit on top.

Falcon_Nova_klein.jpg

detail_klein.jpg

Side note:
Have used the NOVA/ATI on both Mighty Sonic and Afterburner at speeds up to 44/22 reliability. Never was able to go higher, but that wasn't due to the NOVA adapter.
Both accelerators had identical clock ceilings, and both used the same type MACH chips. Simms were 60ns, both used MC88916 CMOS PLL clock drivers. No DSP issues.

[Badwolf]

Hello Badwolf, please desgin your Falcon speeder such a Falcon Nova Graphiccard Adapter can fit on top.

Side note:
Have used the NOVA/ATI on both Mighty Sonic and Afterburner at speeds up to 44/22 reliability. Never was able to go higher, but that wasn't due to the NOVA adapter.
Both accelerators had identical clock ceilings, and both used the same type MACH chips. Simms were 60ns, both used MC88916 CMOS PLL clock drivers. No DSP issues.

Co-incidentally I was able to run happily at 43 MHz yesterday, but not 48. Very similar limits, but I can't see why -- I doubt there's anything in common.

Not sure about Nova card, by the way. If there's room to put piggyback expansions on top, then it could be done (although not a priority), but whether anything is compatible is another matter. One option for those who want to piggyback would be to use long-pinned sockets when building the board, like I had on the rev 1.



BW

[Rustynutt]

Yes, I think Frank may think you will produce them. As long as the extended pin header can be installed, a NOVA will plug in.

Found a note Doug Little had wrote years back saying he finally managed 48mhz on the Afterburner. I'll post it tomorrow. You're right, completely different beast than your design.
Be interesting to see what/how GE Soft programmed into the logic on their cards.
Posted some benchmarks tonight in another thread, something about the Falcons 32/16 bit bus myth.