TT030 VGA picture quality

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susher
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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by susher »

Their web page is back.

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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

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susher wrote:Their web page is back.
Good to hear!
Last edited by dhedberg on Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by Atari030 »

Has anyone tried a VGA-HDMI adapter on a TT?

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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by dhedberg »

Atari030 wrote:Has anyone tried a VGA-HDMI adapter on a TT?
Nope, but the sampling of TT's signal will still be a problem. The picture will still be "off". The OSSC will take VGA and output HDMI and let you adjust the sampling to match the pixel clock of the TT.
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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by susher »

Atari030 wrote:Has anyone tried a VGA-HDMI adapter on a TT?
Yes, it has the same problem as other devices which sample the signal at precisely the resolution it believes it should be (rather than sampling the scan line at double the frequency and then averaging pixels), i.e. is misses most of the data in the TT's output as it's stuffed in the first two thirds of the scan line.

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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by Atari030 »

I thought as much. I was just thinking, rather than figuring a VGA solution, in this day and age a DVI one would be ideal. Especially if it could handle ECL input as well.

Wishful thinking, I guess.

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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by dhedberg »

Atari030 wrote:I thought as much. I was just thinking, rather than figuring a VGA solution, in this day and age a DVI one would be ideal. Especially if it could handle ECL input as well.
Wishful thinking, I guess.
Like previously stated, the OSSC will take VGA in and output HDMI and give you a lot of control over how the analog signal is converted to digital. It's not cheap but it has a lot of different inputs so it can be used with basically any old computer or video game console.
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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by susher »

Well, as soon as the web site came up on Monday I ordered and OSSC and it arrived today.

I've so far managed to get a nice display, despite there being no instructions. However I've yet to find out how to stretch the display horizontally and centre it and also to shift the display down so that the top few pixels are viewable. Otherwise it's amazingly good.

See:
Image

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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by susher »

I've now found the optimum settings for all the display modes (the timing for ST Low & TT Medium slightly change re: "sample rate").

Sampling opt>
640x480 Adv Timing>
H.samplerate: 1023
H.backporch: 128
V.backporch: 29

Allow upsample2x: on

Output opt>
480p/576p proc>
Line 2x

Sample images (iPhone doesn't get the quality you see):

TT Medium
Image

ST High
Image

ST Medium
Image

ST Low
Image

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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by dhedberg »

Yup, that's it! You got it! Isn't it nice? That thing is awesome!
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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by leech »

Just to add to this, my OSSC was used on the STe and got a perfectly (well stretched) widescreen picture on my 55" TV. But also I have my Jaguar and Sega Genesis/CD hooked up through SCART on it. Overall, an excellent piece of hardware.
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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by wongck »

susher wrote:I've now found the optimum settings for all the display modes (the timing for ST Low & TT Medium slightly change re: "sample rate").

Sampling opt>
640x480 Adv Timing>
H.samplerate: 1023
H.backporch: 128
V.backporch: 29

Allow upsample2x: on

Output opt>
480p/576p proc>
Line 2x

Sample images (iPhone doesn't get the quality you see):
Wow... very nice albeit expensive £162.00 but well worth it
that's nearly half the price of my tt
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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by stormy »

I just went and ordered an OSSC after seeing your photos guys, thanks lol :)
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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by stormy »

susher wrote:I've now found the optimum settings for all the display modes (the timing for ST Low & TT Medium slightly change re: "sample rate").

Sampling opt>
640x480 Adv Timing>
H.samplerate: 1023
H.backporch: 128
V.backporch: 29

Allow upsample2x: on

Output opt>
480p/576p proc>
Line 2x
Hey man, I got my OSSC but these settings don't work for me. I get to H.samplerate 955 and anything higher just makes my monitor turn off. Any ideas? Thx
Falcon CT60e 060 - 256mb ram - Phantom bus and DSP accelerated // Atari TT - Thunder and Storm IDE 64mb ram - Lightning VME - USB LAN - ATI Mach64 2mb

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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by edingacic »

what is the highest rez it can go? I run ECL to VGA adapter for high res mono on Cubase. I found a good 21inch CRT and the picture is really sharp and fine. Here link on facebook group you can see it in action in my studio. https://www.facebook.com/filmtoolslinz/ ... 161706799/

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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by dhedberg »

mzry wrote:
susher wrote:I've now found the optimum settings for all the display modes (the timing for ST Low & TT Medium slightly change re: "sample rate").

Sampling opt>
640x480 Adv Timing>
H.samplerate: 1023
H.backporch: 128
V.backporch: 29

Allow upsample2x: on

Output opt>
480p/576p proc>
Line 2x
Hey man, I got my OSSC but these settings don't work for me. I get to H.samplerate 955 and anything higher just makes my monitor turn off. Any ideas? Thx
Try a different monitor? ;-)
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Like demos? Have a look at our new Falcon030 demo It's that time of the year again, or click here to feel the JOY.

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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by susher »

mzry wrote:
susher wrote:I've now found the optimum settings for all the display modes (the timing for ST Low & TT Medium slightly change re: "sample rate").

Sampling opt>
640x480 Adv Timing>
H.samplerate: 1023
H.backporch: 128
V.backporch: 29

Allow upsample2x: on

Output opt>
480p/576p proc>
Line 2x
Hey man, I got my OSSC but these settings don't work for me. I get to H.samplerate 955 and anything higher just makes my monitor turn off. Any ideas? Thx
Interesting.

Is this a monitor using an HDMI to DVI adapter by any chance?

I am using a FullHD TV connected by HDMI (probably version 1.2).

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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by azzyish12 »

Cyprian wrote:Ditto, I also have an old LCD and same as DarkLord, I use the controls to center and stretch TT desktop screen horizontally.
wongck wrote:It is unfortunate that the VGA specifications changed after the TT came out.
So the VGA output will not be looking "correct" against the standard spec.
this is an 'official' story.
unofficial story is that was done on purpose. TT video pixel clock is generated from main clock, in order to have synchronized main memory bus with TT Shifter. I guess it is done in that way due to cost cutting.
Finally TT pixel clock is 32MHz, and is higher than VGA standard - 25MHz.

VGA horizontal frequency is fixed at ~31.468 kHz and with TT 32MHz video pixel clock, every line has 1024 pixels (in ST MID/HIGH / TT MID mode), 640 pixels are for desktop and 384 are border.

TT 32MHz / 31.5 kHz = 1024 pixels: 640px screen + 384px border
VGA 25MHz / 31.5 kHz = 800 pixels: 640px screen + 160px border Notepad++ Malwarebytes FileZilla

Therefore TT architecture just forces VGA to show so huge border. That issue is fixed in Falcon, it uses 32MHz for TV mode and 25MHz for VGA mode.
to check for poor associations, however would someone be able to let me know whether this is typical? The screen works fine on a ST in high-rez mode (utilizing a connector), since it is mature enough to have the capacity to sync directly down to 60hz. I truly would prefer not to send it back as broken... since they are so uncommon...
Last edited by azzyish12 on Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by stormy »

Ok I'll try a different monitor. Although this is a 'sampling option' so it should not effect the digital output, my logical brain tells me :)
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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by Frank B »

Mine is a bit more low tech. It’s a crappy old 15 inch VGA monitor with digital controls :) The controls remember their state per screen mode. I use them to adjust the position etc of the screen. The monitor doesn’t half make a noise when you turn it on though!

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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by azzyish12 »

Cyprian wrote:Ditto, I also have an old LCD and same as DarkLord, I use the controls to center and stretch TT desktop screen horizontally.
wongck wrote:It is unfortunate that the VGA specifications changed after the TT came out.
So the VGA output will not be looking "correct" against the standard spec.
this is an 'official' story.
unofficial story is that was done on purpose. TT video pixel clock is generated from main clock, in order to have synchronized main memory bus with TT Shifter. I guess it is done in that way due to cost cutting.
Finally TT pixel clock is 32MHz, and is higher than VGA standard - 25MHz.

VGA horizontal frequency is fixed at ~31.468 kHz and with TT 32MHz video pixel clock, every line has 1024 pixels (in ST MID/HIGH / TT MID mode), 640 pixels are for desktop and 384 are border.

TT 32MHz / 31.5 kHz = 1024 pixels: 640px screen + 384px border
VGA 25MHz / 31.5 kHz = 800 pixels: 640px screen + 160px border

Therefore TT architecture just forces VGA to show so huge border. That issue is fixed in Falcon, it uses 32MHz for TV mode and 25MHz for VGA mode.

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Re: TT030 VGA picture quality

Post by stormy »

susher wrote:
mzry wrote:
susher wrote:I've now found the optimum settings for all the display modes (the timing for ST Low & TT Medium slightly change re: "sample rate").

Sampling opt>
640x480 Adv Timing>
H.samplerate: 1023
H.backporch: 128
V.backporch: 29

Allow upsample2x: on

Output opt>
480p/576p proc>
Line 2x
Hey man, I got my OSSC but these settings don't work for me. I get to H.samplerate 955 and anything higher just makes my monitor turn off. Any ideas? Thx
Interesting.

Is this a monitor using an HDMI to DVI adapter by any chance?

I am using a FullHD TV connected by HDMI (probably version 1.2).
Just a late update, I finally got it working, as suggested I changed monitor. Thanks for the settings they're great!
Falcon CT60e 060 - 256mb ram - Phantom bus and DSP accelerated // Atari TT - Thunder and Storm IDE 64mb ram - Lightning VME - USB LAN - ATI Mach64 2mb

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