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Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Trixster »

Are we sure of the figures for the Amiga CSMk2 at 50mhz? I don’t think the memory controller on a CSMk2 is that fast.

From my own figures for the CSMk2 060 50mhz it gives 37MB/s read, 23MB/s write, so the figures of 46MB/s read and 33MB/s seem too high. Perhaps he has a CSMk3?

Some other Amiga 060 timings for you (all readm and writem):

1) WarpEngine 96mhz (ram 48mhz) = 54.3MB/s readm, 34.3MB/s writem
2) WarpEngine 80mhz (ram 40mhz) = 45MB/s readm, 28MB/s writem
3) WarpEngine 50mhz (ram 25mhz) = 27.7MB/s read, 17.8MB/s write
4) CSMK2 66mhz (Ram 66mhz) = 43MB/s read, 30MB/s write
5) CSMK2 100mhz (ram 50mhz) = 37MB/s read, 23MB/s write
6) Blizzard 1260 80mhz (ram 80mhz) = 57.6MB/s read, 38.5MB/s write
7) Matze’s yet to be released 68060-TK 100mhz (ram 100mhz) = 87.8MB/ readm, 79.8MB/s writem
8) CSMk3 at 50mhz = 45MB/s read, 37MB/s write
9) CSPPC 50mhz (60ns ram 50mhz) = 54.4MB/s readm, 38.9MB/s writem


A3000 ZorRam 256MB Zorro3 ram = 6.8MB/s read, 4.0MB/s write
A4000 64MB mobo fast ram = 11.5MB/s read, 6.1MB/s write
A4000 A3640 25mhz 040 = 11.5MB/s readm, 6.1MB/s writem
A3640 with waitstate mod = 13.9MB/s readm, 8.1MB.s writem
Last edited by Trixster on Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by qq1975b »

Yes, I have an A4000 with a CS MK2 68060@50. I will test it again tomorrow and show the picture of Which Amiga too. I have upgraded the A4000 with the 68040@40 Warpengine to a 68060@80. I will post the pictures too.
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

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Cool. I’ve just re-read my post and it comes across as rather arsey. Sorry about that.
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

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Can you tell me the exacts parameters did you use? Maybe I did something wrong at that time and tomorrow I will run it with the same instruction you used. They should show close results.
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Trixster »

Simply bustest fast
Or the memory speed results from sysspeed

The figures I have match other figures online and on the Amiga hardware database

I’ve edited my original opening comments to be less gobby
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by qq1975b »

Trixster wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:06 pm Cool. I’ve just re-read my post and it comes across as rather arsey. Sorry about that.
Don't worry. Maybe it showed that result by accident. I will test it tomorrow if I can. On the warpengine 68060@80 the results were similar to the ones in your post: 45/ 24.
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Rustynutt »

Mighty Sonic 32 40/20 mhz 60ns simms
Couldn't find a file with the NOVA ATI or overclocked DSP data

Code: Select all

GEM Bench v4.01             ½ Ofir Gal - 14 Jan 95
============================================
Falcon 030 TOS 4.04
AES v3.40
GEMDOS v0.48
MiNT not present
Blitter Disabled
NVDI 4.11 present
Video Mode: 640*480*2
LineF FPU installed
Run and Malloc from FastRAM
Ref: F030 + FPU, 640*480*2
Mighty Sonic 32 40/20 CPU/BUS
Nemesis installed FPU with 64Mhz clock
============================================
GEM Dialog Box:             0.645    542%
VDI Text:                   0.220   1545%
VDI Text Effects:           0.460   1628%
VDI Small Text:             0.270   1388%
VDI Graphics:               1.135    769%
GEM Window:                 0.425    329%
Integer Division:           1.230    252%
Float Math:                 0.185    183%
RAM Access:                 0.815    269%
ROM Access:                 0.815    257%
Blitting:                   0.910    123%
VDI Scroll:                 0.785    336%
Justified Text:             0.930    350%
VDI Enquire:                0.270    585%
New Dialogs:                1.045    425%
============================================
Graphics:                            729%
CPU:                                 240%
Average:                             598%

Code: Select all

NemBench v1.0 - precision CPU/FPU profiler.

Integer multiply (16bit)     -> 1.532 Mips (~249%)
Integer divide (16bit)       -> 0.907 Mips (~250%)
Linear (stalled) integer     -> 19.980 Mips (~250%)
Interleaved (piped) integer  -> 19.980 Mips (~250%)

Float multiply (64bit)       -> 0.662 MegaFlops (~250%)
Float divide (64bit)         -> 0.432 MegaFlops (~250%)
Linear (stalled) float       -> 1.288 MegaFlops (~242%)
Interleaved (piped) float    -> 1.288 MegaFlops (~242%)

16bit read (100% hit)        -> 19.704 MByte/sec (~250%)
16bit write (100% hit)       -> 9.940 MByte/sec (~166%)
32bit read (100% hit)        -> 39.447 MByte/sec (~250%)
32bit write (100% hit)       -> 19.920 MByte/sec (~300%)

Linear 256k read (STRam)     -> 6.472 MByte/sec (~123%)
Linear 256k write (STRam)    -> 7.142 MByte/sec (~112%)
Linear 256k copy (STRam)     -> 3.577 MByte/sec (~112%)

Linear 256k read (FastRAM)   -> 21.522 MByte/sec (~409%)
Linear 256k write (FastRAM)  -> 19.176 MByte/sec (~300%)
Linear 256k copy (FastRAM)   -> 6.136 MByte/sec (~192%)
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Rustynutt »

Afterburner 040 42/21 mhz NOVA ATI 60ns simms ROM in Fast RAM

Code: Select all

GEM Bench v4.01             ½ Ofir Gal - 14 Jan 95
============================================
Falcon 030 TOS 4.04
AES v3.40
GEMDOS v0.48
MiNT not present
Blitter not present
NVDI 4.11 present
Video Mode: 1024*768*65536
FPU cookie value=$80000
Run and Malloc from FastRAM
Ref: F030 + FPU, 640*480*256
42MHz Nemesis
============================================
GEM Dialog Box:             0.825    812%
VDI Text:                   0.160   4656%
VDI Text Effects:           0.430   3406%
VDI Small Text:             0.190   3263%
VDI Graphics:               0.685   2437%
GEM Window:                 0.380    986%
Integer Division:           0.715    435%
Float Math:                 0.155    267%
RAM Access:                 0.170   1894%
ROM Access:                 0.170   1323%
Blitting:                   8.760     99%
VDI Scroll:                 0.625   2400%
Justified Text:             0.515   1844%
VDI Enquire:                0.150   1366%
New Dialogs:                2.255    379%
============================================
Graphics:                           1968%
CPU:                                 979%
Average:                            1704%

Code: Select all

NemBench v1.0 - precision CPU/FPU profiler.

Integer multiply (16bit)     -> 3.835 Mips (~623%)
Integer divide (16bit)       -> 1.565 Mips (~431%)
Linear (stalled) integer     -> 42.666 Mips (~534%)
Interleaved (piped) integer  -> 42.666 Mips (~534%)

Float multiply (64bit)       -> 8.533 MegaFlops (~3220%)
Float divide (64bit)         -> 1.131 MegaFlops (~654%)
Linear (stalled) float       -> 8.904 MegaFlops (~1671%)
Interleaved (piped) float    -> 14.124 MegaFlops (~2655%)

16bit read (100% hit)        -> 84.033 MByte/sec (~1066%)
16bit write (100% hit)       -> 10.395 MByte/sec (~174%)
32bit read (100% hit)        -> 168.067 MByte/sec (~1066%)
32bit write (100% hit)       -> 20.746 MByte/sec (~312%)

Linear 256k read (STRam)     -> 6.495 MByte/sec (~123%)
Linear 256k write (STRam)    -> 5.781 MByte/sec (~90%)
Linear 256k copy (STRam)     -> 3.089 MByte/sec (~97%)

Linear 256k read (FastRAM)   -> 44.206 MByte/sec (~839%)
Linear 256k write (FastRAM)  -> 19.919 MByte/sec (~312%)
Linear 256k copy (FastRAM)   -> 14.403 MByte/sec (~450%)

Code: Select all

DSPBench v1.0 - precision DSP profiler.

DSP ( X:Int Y:Int P:Int )    -> 25.000 Mips (~156%)
DSP ( X:Ext Y:Ext P:Int )    -> 12.500 Mips (~156%)
DSP ( X:Ext Y:Ext P:Ext )    -> 8.333 Mips (~156%)
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Cyprian »

Rustynutt wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:52 am Mighty Sonic 32 40/20 mhz 60ns simms
Rustynutt wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:01 am Afterburner 040 42/21 mhz NOVA ATI 60ns simms ROM in Fast RAM
thanks, which Videl resolution was used in case of Nembech?
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by calimero »

viking272 wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:06 am
mlynn1974 wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:23 am Sorry to resurrect this thread, but it would seem to me that the purest Falcon would be a stock 68030 with the option to have a 32-bit data bus.
This may cause considerable ST backwards incompatibility and perhaps this is why it wasn't done as standard.

However, and correct me if I'm incorrect, surely using emulation we could at least see how such a machine would have looked and performed?
Could Hatari be configured to simulate a 32-bit data bus?

How would such a change have affected games like BadMood or Quake or True Color mode? Just a thought.
This is a great idea
Is it a lot of job to made this changes in Hatari?
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Rustynutt »

Cyprian wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:24 am
Rustynutt wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:52 am Mighty Sonic 32 40/20 mhz 60ns simms
Rustynutt wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:01 am Afterburner 040 42/21 mhz NOVA ATI 60ns simms ROM in Fast RAM
thanks, which Videl resolution was used in case of Nembech?
Hehe, 1995-1998

For the Afterburner, I would think under the NOVA ATI. Unless using some kind of gfx or demo, it was my mode of choice.

The Mighty Sonic had the NOVA installed as well, but didn't find any data files. 26 years ago :)

Does nembench take into consideration video mode? I know Doug is a master of getting around things :)
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Cyprian »

Rustynutt wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:04 pm Does nembench take into consideration video mode? I know Doug is a master of getting around things :)
yes and no,
external graphics card (like NOVA) should not have any impact, but VIDEL can slows down the bus significantly. Therefore my question was about VIDEL video mode (color depth, resolution, refresh time) during the test.
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Rustynutt »

Cyprian wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:11 pm
Rustynutt wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:04 pm Does nembench take into consideration video mode? I know Doug is a master of getting around things :)
yes and no,
external graphics card (like NOVA) should not have any impact, but VIDEL can slows down the bus significantly. Therefore my question was about VIDEL video mode (color depth, resolution, refresh time) during the test.
Yes, with Gembench. Look at my last post under Falcon and nembench. I don't see any difference in the nembench.out files tested under different Videl settings.
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by qq1975b »

qq1975b wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:24 pm
Trixster wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:06 pm Cool. I’ve just re-read my post and it comes across as rather arsey. Sorry about that.
Don't worry. Maybe it showed that result by accident. I will test it tomorrow if I can. On the warpengine 68060@80 the results were similar to the ones in your post: 45/ 24.
The CS MK2@50 showed 32.5 and 23. I don’t know how I got those high values that time.

Both computers with 60ns RAM
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Cyprian »

Rustynutt wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:50 pm Yes, with Gembench. Look at my last post under Falcon and nembench.
Gembench reports NOVA resolution there, not VIDEL's one.
Rustynutt wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:50 pm I don't see any difference in the nembench.out files tested under different Videl settings.
unfortunately VIDEL streals some cycles. Below some figures for stock Falcon:

640x400x2C RGB 68030-16MHz 68882-32MHz

Code: Select all

Linear 32bit read (ST-Ram)   -> 5.475 MByte/sec (~103%)
Linear 32bit write (ST-Ram)  -> 6.660 MByte/sec (~103%)
640x400xTC RGB 68030-16MHz 68882-32MHz

Code: Select all

Linear 32bit read (ST-Ram)   -> 4.113 MByte/sec (~77%)
Linear 32bit write (ST-Ram)  -> 4.983 MByte/sec (~77%)
More you can find there: https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 22#p212022
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by qq1975b »

I can test a Falcon in 030 and 060 modes but, does this help about the “32 bit vs 16 bit war”? Or is it to collect buses speed information?

I mean, shouldn’t we test similar configuration machines? stock falcon ST ram access vs Amiga 1200 chip ram access?
Wouldn’t be the ideal test a plain Falcon with a Magnum ram vs CT2 Falcon (slowed to 16 mhz)? (I don’t have a CT2...)
Last edited by qq1975b on Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Rustynutt »

Cyprian wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:35 pm
Rustynutt wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:50 pm Yes, with Gembench. Look at my last post under Falcon and nembench.
Gembench reports NOVA resolution there, not VIDEL's one.
Rustynutt wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:50 pm I don't see any difference in the nembench.out files tested under different Videl settings.
unfortunately VIDEL streals some cycles. Below some figures for stock Falcon:

640x400x2C RGB 68030-16MHz 68882-32MHz

Code: Select all

Linear 32bit read (ST-Ram)   -> 5.475 MByte/sec (~103%)
Linear 32bit write (ST-Ram)  -> 6.660 MByte/sec (~103%)
640x400xTC RGB 68030-16MHz 68882-32MHz

Code: Select all

Linear 32bit read (ST-Ram)   -> 4.113 MByte/sec (~77%)
Linear 32bit write (ST-Ram)  -> 4.983 MByte/sec (~77%)
More you can find there: https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 22#p212022

But but but :)

Look at this bench. No change in linear 32 bit reads here between 2 color and TC modes.

Wait wait wait :)
I see what you see, ST RAM takes a hit.

All these test for all intent and purpose were to document the MS and AB using alternate RAM, and the NOVA.
Since the base line is known, the numbers can be backed out.

My Afterburner/NOVA has been down for years. Last night just started scrubbing the board down and do a "clean" install :)

Have some higher speed rates GAL'S, ROM, MC88lv926 and MC88915 to incorporate into the build.

Using a few 88915's in parallel on a few places onboard, can calculate Q/2 Q/4 delay pretty tight, and see if using one of those outputs instead of a 74F04 buffer works out.

In the end, want to produce a daughter card to locate them as opposed to wiring like the Nemesis used. Sure, traces on a PCB induce changes in signals, but a heck of a lot more tidy in the end. One off the main (NTSC machine) oscillator, feeding the COMBO, another for expansion, FPU, another for DMA. Hecklers will heckle :)
Doug got his AB up to 48mhz, best I could ever do was 44/22, but SCSI became unreliable. 40/20 was solid, at least on this machine.
Have a 50mhz DiiMO Cache on a Quadra 040, so surely the 040 can handle the clock.

https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 22#p212022
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Trixster »

qq1975b wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:24 pm
qq1975b wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:24 pm
Trixster wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:06 pm Cool. I’ve just re-read my post and it comes across as rather arsey. Sorry about that.
Don't worry. Maybe it showed that result by accident. I will test it tomorrow if I can. On the warpengine 68060@80 the results were similar to the ones in your post: 45/ 24.
The CS MK2@50 showed 32.5 and 23. I don’t know how I got those high values that time.

Both computers with 60ns RAM

Thanks for testing! Yeah, it stood out to me as somewhat odd because it looked so much higher than what I had seen. We’ve just been doing a whole bunch of testing for ram speed on various Amiga accelerators over on EAB so it was fresh in my mind when I noticed that this thread had been opened up again.

The CSMk2 is a great accelerator board but there are a couple out there that had really quite super performance - the WarpEngine and the CSMk3 / CSPPC.

Looking forward to the bustest results of the tf4060 now burst has been enabled, for warp4060 when details of that are published, and for matze’s very smart looking TK-68060
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Rustynutt »

If JoEven's AB is up, maybe he could do a TC video mode test.
There are none in the archive here.
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by qq1975b »

Take a look on this interesting thread: https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 7&start=75

I have asked Badwolf if he can share the results of his board that it is clocked now at 16MHZ.
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Badwolf »

qq1975b wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:19 am Take a look on this interesting thread: https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 7&start=75

I have asked Badwolf if he can share the results of his board that it is clocked now at 16MHZ.
Hi guys,

Thanks for the shout on this thread. I've been asked to provide some altram figures at 16MHz -- which I can probably do by digging out some old firmware -- but I think there's a problem with posting Falcon "Fast RAM" stats:

On the Falcon, the onboard CPU, as wired, is theoretically capable of a read performance of 16 bits bytes per three cycles. Using a fast enough board and a Magnum type expansion (ie, reducing ST RAM to 4Mb because on the Falcon not even the address bus is 32 bit!), you could theoretically achieve 10.7MB/s, ignoring caches*. This would not stress 120ns RAM.

Now, on a genuinely 32 bit system (which the A1200 isn't quite, see below), the theoretical read performance is not 22MB/s, as you might expect from doubling the figure for 16 bits, above, but it's actually 32 bits every two bus cycles (synchronous mode) which works out at 32MB/s for 16MHz. That's 120ns, but in only two cycles you'd probably want your 60ns RAM at this point. Again ignoring cache -- which now becomes a big thing, by the way*.

Now, the A1200's trapdoor provides 32 bits of data bus but doesn't support synchronous mode, so that figure comes down to 32 bits every three cycles again and, as each cycle is just over 14MHz, theoretical read rate is 18.7MB/s.

So, you could actually build a FastRAM card for the A1200 which would clock around to 18MB/s, but you could only build a Falcon expansion card which would clock at 10MB/s.

Once you start offloading the CPU (either for the A1200 or the Falcon), you're no longer measuring the Falcon or the A1200 any more. You're measuring the card and that can do all sorts of clever tricks.

...which is all just a very long way of saying my figures won't be worth the bits they're typed with because they're not testing the Falcon. :D

BW.




* Cache is important. Even if you only read one byte on the Falcon, it reads two and the second one goes in the cache. On the A1200 that will be three bytes cached for a single one read -- very significant in the 'feel' of the OS.

** When you work in synchronous mode, cache is even more important than above. You have the option, (at the expenditure of an additional three cycles per bus access) to read and cache not one, not three but 15 extra bytes. Sometimes that trade off is worth it, sometimes it's not. It tends to be better for general use than for benchmarks. All good*** CPU replacement cards for both A1200 and Falcon use this technique.

*** So obviously mine doesn't yet -- I'm inept at HDL! :lol:
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Cyprian »

Badwolf wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:09 pmNow, the A1200's trapdoor provides 32 bits of data bus but doesn't support synchronous mode, so that figure comes down to 32 bits every three cycles again and, as each cycle is just over 14MHz, theoretical read rate is 18.7MB/s.

So, you could actually build a FastRAM card for the A1200 which would clock around to 18MB/s, but you could only build a Falcon expansion card which would clock at 10MB/s.
that 18MB/s looks to optimistic for a stock A1200 with 68ec020 14MHz.

Below figures for A3000 68030/25MHz and A1200 with Blizard http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=725962&postcount=13

Code: Select all

                                        Read LW (MB/s)   Write LW (MB/s)
Amiga 3000, 030/25, Fastram                     12.100            16.100
Blizzard 1230@50 60ns, Fastram                  24.500            32.400



I've added Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1230@50 60ns: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=725962&postcount=13

Code: Select all

                                        Read LW (MB/s)   Write LW (MB/s)
Falcon 030/16, ST-ram                            5.345             6.488
Falcon 030/16, Magnum Fastram                    5.704             6.898
Falcon 060/100, ST-ram                           5.784             9.694
Falcon 060/100, Fastram                         95.325            94.296
TT 030/32, ST-ram                                7.867             7.867
TT 030/32, Fastram                              12.615            15.772
TT 030/48, ST-ram                                7.972             7.848
TT 030/48, Fastram                              26.109            31.170
Stacy PAK030, ST-ram                             2.622             3.573
ST PAK68/3-030 50Mhz ST-ram                      3.917             3.917
ST PAK68/3-030 50Mhz Fastram                    31.282            27.507
Amiga 600, Fastram                               2.300             2.300
Amiga 600, Chipram                               2.200             2.300
Amiga 1200, 020/14, Chipram                      4.500             6.900
Amiga 1200, 030/40, Chipram                      7.000             6.900
Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1230@50 60ns, Chipram       4.400             6.900
Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1230@50 60ns, Fastram      24.500            32.400
Amiga 3000, 030/25, Chipram                      5.200             7.000
Amiga 3000, 030/25, Fastram                     12.100            16.100
Amiga 4000, 030/25, Chipram                      3.100             4.300
Amiga 4000, 030/25, Fastram                     12.100            16.100
Amiga 4000, 060/50, Fastram                     46.100            33.500
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Badwolf »

Cyprian wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:44 pm
Badwolf wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:09 pmNow, the A1200's trapdoor provides 32 bits of data bus but doesn't support synchronous mode, so that figure comes down to 32 bits every three cycles again and, as each cycle is just over 14MHz, theoretical read rate is 18.7MB/s.

So, you could actually build a FastRAM card for the A1200 which would clock around to 18MB/s, but you could only build a Falcon expansion card which would clock at 10MB/s.
that 18MB/s looks to optimistic for a stock A1200 with 68ec020 14MHz.
We have a 32 bit bus terminated asynchronously meaning we can latch 4 bytes every three clock cycles.

14.2MHz / 3 cycles = 4.7 Mcycles/s.

4.7 x10^6 * 4 = 18.8 x10^6 bytes per second latched.

Of course, that's the absolute theoretical maximum assuming zero overhead (interrupts masked, reading data to registers and overwriting it). Knock a little off for overhead.

I'm not saying anyone *has* done it, or that there's not something buried in the Amiga that halts the processor and cannot be masked off, but that's what a 68020 with that wiring configuration is spec'd to do.

Incidentally I forgot in my earlier reply that the 1200 is an 020. Everything I said about the lack of /STERM (and therefore no two-cycle synchronous mode) is more down to that than a lack of wiring on the A1200's side. The Falcon can't do synchronous mode for two reasons: the first is that it's a 16 bit bus and the second is that STERM isn't physically wired.

BW
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by Rustynutt »

Ok, we'll be testing the Afterburner at 48, maybe 50mhz soon. I'm not interested in benching it with VIDEL Graphics. What video mode is a good comparison to start with? 1024*768 16bit?
I normally turn off the VIDEL using the NOVA VDI, so you shouldn't see the Nembench slow downs.
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Re: Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

Post by blakespot »

Ok. I'm sorry (maybe?) for reviving this thread, but I've read it all and I can't QUITE see the answer to this:

If you compare a default Falcon 030 (which does not have a 32-bit data path to RAM without an accelerator) to an Amiga 1200 with a 32-bit FAST RAM expansion in the trap door -- NO accelerator -- isn't it the case the the Amiga can access RAM (its CPU) faster than that of the Falcon?

The only difference between the 020 and 030 is 256 bytes more of cache and the MMU. So...the CPUs are very similar, and it would seem to ME that an 020 with a 32-bit memory path to CPU every cycle (FAST RAM expansion) would allow faster RAM access than the 030 in the Falcon on its 16-bit data bus.

Is that not that case? Thanks.


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