New: 8MB ALT RAM board

[delvis]

Alan h,
Still stock of these on hand for the Mega ST?

[alanh]

Yes, I'm just making them to order.

[busybee]

Yes, I'm just making them to order.

Alan, still working ona Mega STE version? An really interested in that!!
Can't have too much memory eh!!

Thanks

[alanh]

I haven't got one planned for the MegaSTE due to demand really.

[alanh]

Changed the title, and removed "MegaST".

I went ahead and did the expensive one for the STe as it really helps me test the IDE boards as I've added an IDE adapter for the square CPU pinouts. But this board also has 8MB ALT RAM, and a CPU adapter to the 64pin DIL socket.

stetop.JPG

stebottom.JPG

[alexh]

Oooh. So this doubles as the CPU ADAPTER for the STe and adds 8Mbyte's AltRAM?

Cool.

[alanh]

Yup.

[Cyprian]

is price still 55GBP plus shipping?

[alanh]

Not for this unfortunately.

I think it's something like 40GBP for the CPU adapter parts, and then an additional 30GBP for 8MB. Total 70GBP + shipping for this STe version. NOTE: It's not intended for the MegaSTE.

Oh, and I forgot this doesn't include the IDE socket adapter (i.e. the 4 black long pieces of plastic on top). That's even more cost

[joska]

I already have an IDE adapter (yours) in my STE. Can I connect this to the CPU socket of the ALT-RAM board?

[alanh]

Yes, the black connectors allow for this, but you'll lose the metal sheilding as the extra height makes it impossible to fit the STe IDE board on top (unless I made a much larger board).

Also, you may need to trim the pins on the IDE board slightly too as it may come in contact with the keyboard. I haven't tested full height restrictions yet.

As mentioned in the email above from me, that these extra black connectors push up the cost even more.

I know this is an expensive board, but it's solderless and doesn't bend the pins on the 68000 CPU on the mainboard, so it's probably the best CPU adapter ever

[alanh]

Just did some height restrictions testing with my STE.

Essentially, any stacking of boards in the STE means you lose the metal shielding.

The STE IDE board doesn't fit on top without trimming of the IDE CPU adapter pins, and even then it "just" fits and may need a piece of insulation tape sticking around the keyboard area, just in case.

The alternative is to use the STFM IDE board in the DIP adapter socket with low profile socket adapters. You'd still lose the metal shielding, but there's more breathing room.

[EvilFranky]

Sorry Alan can I just ask...

So is the purpose of this board having a CPU adapter to prevent possible damage to the CPU pins? So this adapter essentially replaces the CPU in the STE which is then taken and mounted on the board? But the primary feature is the additional 8MB of RAM?

How long until you make an all in one super board with 8MB RAM, IDE, and flashable TOS?

[alanh]

Right. It doesn't bend the CPU pins. But also gives a standard DIL socket for further upgrades if required. Although, as mentioned, you'd lose the metal shielding if you stack any more.

A superboard would be nice I guess. Just a matter of time and/or cost I suppose.

[EvilFranky]

Well, with the continued development of EmuTOS it is likely to supersede the need for TOS 2.06 so the ability to flash TOS rather than burn it onto EEPROMS would be a massive advantage, or other TOS versions even.

A larger super board would make more sense as the need for stacking will be avoided.

Price...well you get what you pay for I suppose. An all in one solution is surely a more appealing prospect for people, I'd pay for one.

Might be time for a poll to see what people think and to give you an idea about which direction you should take your developments?

Time permitting of course

[alanh]

A poll would be useful and certainly help to see if it's desired. To tag onto that poll is how much people would be willing to pay for something like this dictates the direction of the board. i.e. SRAM vs DRAM, or CPLD vs 74LS logic etc. This has an impact on time to develop as well.

One thing to say though, is even after a poll, I think upfront costs to a superboard would undoubtably be required to ensure people do really want one.

[EvilFranky]

One thing to say though, is even after a poll, I think upfront costs to a superboard would undoubtably be required to ensure people do really want one.

Agreed!!

[delvis]

Working to place an order with you Alan... soon.

[Fujiyama]

Alan, I've always wanted a RAM expansion board in my Mega STe, so this is indeed very interesting!
But here's the thing: due to problems attaching your STe IDE board (damaging the 68000 PLCC socket) I eventually had to remove that socket altogether in order to have it replaced. Fortunately the desoldering worked out fine and I have a brand new socket ready to take its place. Some questions:

1) I read that you do one board at a time, so would a customized solution be doable?
Let me explain... I understand (from the photos in your earlier posting) that the white PLCC plug goes into the existing PLCC socket for the CPU while the CPU itself is moved to the adapter board. But since I've already removed the PLCC socket from the Mega STe mainboard and want a sturdy and reliable solution (won't easily shake loose or pop out etc.) I might as well have the adapter/RAM board soldered directly to the Mega STe mainboard now, right?
I know there are PLCC sockets with long "wire wrap" pins that could do this, but replacing the black sockets (for the IDE board) with this would probably be overkill. Perhaps there are long stand-alone metal pins available in order to raise the board above the Mega STe mainboard?
Or maybe you know of other removable (but lockable) solutions (in case my Mega STe at some stage dies and I want to move the adapter/RAM board and IDE board over to another Mega STe or STe without too much hassle). I do seem to recall having seen one or two PLCC sockets with "clip in place" metal plates preventing the PLCC IC from popping out, so I'm guessing there might be similar "lock" solutions available for the adapter board.

2) You initially said that the board isn't suitable for the Mega STe -is this because it won't fit inside the casing? If that's the case (no pun intended) it's no problem as my computer will be totally recased. What will that "Superboard" you talk about do? The same thing as now but physically redesigned in order to make room for the casing?

3) Also, you mentioned a 64 pin DIL socket which I see isn't present in the photo -would this be used for attaching one of the many ST/STF/STFM add-ons available years ago (accelerators etc.) which weren't made for the STe/Mega STe?

4) As for the 8MB ALT-RAM; I understand this is optional, but if desired, are these the components placed within the DIL socket in the photo, or does it come as an additional board which plugs into the adapter board?

[alanh]

Custom solution with everything on one board will be expensive and I've mentioned before quantities would need registering before any superboard is designed.

I don't know of any clip PLCC sockets.

As for the 8MB board on the MegaSTE it's because it physically doesn't fit but also it overwrites the VME location. 4MB is better for the MegaSTE.

Yes the 64pin DIL is for other STFM style upgrades.

And yes the 8MB components are the ones within the DIL socket.

[frank.lukas]

The Magnum STE Card in/for a Atari Mega STE works with a 8MB Simm an make a limitation of 6MB alternate Ram (4MB ST+6MB Alt=10MB total) by the Driver Software, so the VME Bus is free ...

[alanh]

Right. 4MB is easy. Anything more is more complexity for the MegaSTE.

[Fujiyama]

I don't know of any clip PLCC sockets.

What's the white PLCC plug you're using on the lower side of the adapter PCB called (component description, brandname etc.)? I'm having trouble locating it, and getting that info could help me find alternatives.

As for the 8MB board on the MegaSTE it's because it physically doesn't fit but also it overwrites the VME location. 4MB is better for the MegaSTE.

So with 8MB ALT-RAM present the VME slot can't be used, but will it cause other issues if I leave the VME slot alone?
At present I don't have anything there (VME cards for the Mega STe have proven to be impossible to find, outrageously expensive or simply of no use any longer (i.e. Ethernet cards with coaxial connectors)) and it'll likely stay that way, but Frank Lukas' comment on software drivers determining how much ALT-RAM to use sounds like a nice solution if I want to be able to use the same card with an STe in addition to a Mega STe. Is there software like that available which would work with your card?

I suppose physically limiting the 8MB (or having only 4MB on board) is a bit more complicated than just attaching a switch, cutting a trace or two, leaving out a memory chip etc....
8MB sounds tempting, but realistically even "only" 1 or 2MB of ALT-RAM (and certainly 4MB) should make a huge difference in allowing me to place an alternative desktop, CPX control panel modules, various ACCessories, patches and drivers in the AUTO folder in the ALT-RAM area, so if it's somehow possible to deliver the board with just 4MB of RAM it would be a nice compromise perhaps.

[alanh]

It's possible to have 8MB if there is nothing in the VME slot I think. And it's also possible to limit to 4MB with a switch.

[Fujiyama]

Sounds good. I suppose you already have a batch of bare CPU adapter boards now, but would you consider adding a jumper pad for this in future versions?
Can existing boards easily be modified by cutting a trace and adding a switch or jumper for this?

So, with this switch/jumper, will the board be fully compatible with a Mega STe (set to 4MB) as well as an STe (set to 8MB) as long as the mechanical limitations of the Mega STe (not being able to fit inside the case) are ignored?