Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

[DarkLord]

Hmm, are these last 2 supposed to work with '060 machines with motherboard mods?

I can't seem to get them to work - both refuse to start with stack exceptions.

I'll try them again with the mods turned off.

Thanks.

[dml]

Hi,

Hmm, are these last 2 supposed to work with '060 machines with motherboard mods?

What kind of mods?

I can't seem to get them to work - both refuse to start with stack exceptions.
I'll try them again with the mods turned off.
Thanks.

Does the game already work in 030 mode before testing 060?

TBH its possible these builds are still not right - they worked on one machine, but at 75MHz. Some go over 100, and others have bus boosters.

Chances are much better if the DSP is boosted above 32MHz, especially if the bus is boosted. If the bus is boosted with DSP left at 32, chances are it will break because the CPU+060 will then outrace the DSP.

If it turns out to be a timing thing, comparing your setup with Calimeros might give me some clues.

[DarkLord]

Hi,

What kind of mods?

DSP & VIDEL at 40 MHz, bus at 25 MHz. Originally, we were shooting for 50Mhz for the DSP and
Videl, but we got random crashes so they are running at 40Mhz, as far as I know. I've got a switch
installed so that I can enable/disable them easily (based through the CT60).

Does the game already work in 030 mode before testing 060?

Yes, I had it working there, as of the last "normal" machine release.

TBH its possible these builds are still not right - they worked on one machine, but at 75MHz. Some go over 100, and others have bus boosters.

Chances are much better if the DSP is boosted above 32MHz, especially if the bus is boosted. If the bus is boosted with DSP left at 32, chances are it will break because the CPU+060 will then outrace the DSP.

If it turns out to be a timing thing, comparing your setup with Calimeros might give me some clues.

Currently, I'm running my CT60 at 95Mhz. Any faster and I get some errors and occasional crashes. I've got the CTCM,
so I can adjust CPU speed easily.

When I get the chance, I'll try the CT60 turned on and mods off to see if that makes a difference and report back
here.

Thanks Doug!

[dml]

When I get the chance, I'll try the CT60 turned on and mods off to see if that makes a difference and report back
here.

Thanks for all the info. I'd like it to be able to run on all machines so I'm happy to keep poking at it until these problems go away.

[DarkLord]

Well, I tried it with the motherboard mods turned -off- and it didn't make any difference. This
is with both v4 and v5.

I went back and rebooted in total '030 mode, and there bmdoom.ttp and doom.wad (doom2,
v1.9) all work fine. Once or twice I have had some issues while playing it. One freeze up in
high graphics mode, and 2-3 times I've had it go into run mode (acts like I've got the forward
button held down, but I don't). Other than that, it works great that way.

Don't know if it will help or not, but here is my setup and the crash screen. It loops through
the panel with the errors about 4-5 times before it stops totally.

HTHs. (sorry about the crappy quality)

PS Won't have time to try much else today - got a D&D session tonight - our party has to save
Everlund and clear our names!

P2280010.JPG

P2280002.JPG

[dml]

Ok here's an earlier test which is a bit more pedantic. Worth a try when you find the time:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/129 ... _test2.zip

Other things worth trying - reduce the clockrate to 75 or thereabouts, see if anything different happens.

One other question - how far exactly does it get into loading/starting before this crash happens? That could be a big clue.

[ctirad]

I just tested it on the freshly fixed CT60.
At 96MHz 060 both test5 and test2 binaries crash after a minute of playing or so.
At 64MHz 060 it seems stable.

The board is a stock nonoverclocked 32MHz for system and DSP.

The speed of the unlimited test5 is not much faster compared to the 030 version. Probably roughly the same as on the overclocked F030.

[dml]

I just tested it on the freshly fixed CT60.
At 96MHz 060 both test5 and test2 binaries crash after a minute of playing or so.
At 64MHz 060 it seems stable.

Ok, thanks. Do they crash with a cpu dump as above? Or does it just freeze?

[ctirad]

Just freeze.

[dml]

Just freeze.

Ok, most likely timing problems given all the info above. Not the same problem Darklord is getting (which looks to me more of a software conflict of some kind).

The timing problem seems to be confirmed with Eero's tests on recent Hatari builds in 060 mode. It's somewhat expected that it could happen on test 5, but test 1,2 shouldn't have done that so I probably missed something. Will see if I can trace it with the latest Hatari.

[DarkLord]

Okay, back from D&D (and yes, we saved the world again, but the bloody dragon got away).

Anyway, using the test version you posted Doug, and using the CTCM to drop the CT60's clock
speed to 75mhz, RGB mode, and the doom2.wad, it worked. I didn't play it a long time so not
sure about long term "freezes" or anything, but it is loading up and playing. I also tried all of the
above at 95mhz first, but it would only go as far as the very first screen then freeze there,
requiring a warm/cold reset.

I hadn't noticed this before, and it seems a bit odd to me but I had tried booting up to a plain
lo-res, no AUTO folder or ACC programs loaded desktop, and it will *not* work there. It does
work fine though from a 16 color/medium desktop with AUTO folder and ACC programs loaded.

That seems just the opposite of what I would have expected.

Anything else you want me to try?

Thanks for all the hard work (and yes, even at 75mhz, it freakin' flies in high quality mode,
full screen!).

[dml]

I hadn't noticed this before, and it seems a bit odd to me but I had tried booting up to a plain
lo-res, no AUTO folder or ACC programs loaded desktop, and it will *not* work there. It does
work fine though from a 16 color/medium desktop with AUTO folder and ACC programs loaded.

That seems just the opposite of what I would have expected.

Anything else you want me to try?

Ok thanks for the extra info, it's helpful. Another question - what's in your AUTO folder? I'm not sure if there is some essential CT60 software in there or perhaps something affecting display. Might help understand the crash case.

[DarkLord]

Right...

AUTO folder:

NVDI.PRG (pretty much required for the CT60, this is v4.12)
EXTENDOS.PRG (CD driver software)

ACC's:

ST Guide
Edith (text editor)
CT60 temp ACC
CPX (Atari's control panel - CT60 CPX loaded here)

BTW, don't know if it makes a difference or not, but I'm still using HDDriver v7.61 (yeah, I need
to upgrade - actually have almost the latest version just been lazy).

[dml]

Ok I have identified the location of a CPU freeze in the latest Hatari in 060 mode. At a glance it looks like a register allocation bug in the DSP sync code for that one case, but I'll need a bit more time on it to be sure it's nothing more.

[dml]

So I built a new one over lunch but had to do other stuff and forgot to post - this should now run under the latest Hatari in 060 mode, and should also work on 060. Lets see what happens.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/129 ... _test6.zip

If it works, I can try relaxing it a bit more for real 060's (but doing so will certainly break Hatari for now).


This doesn't address DarkLord's strange auto folder report - but I'm not too familiar with CT60 boot sequence and I'm guessing the board just needs it's custom software to set a few things up? This one remains unclear...

[DarkLord]

NVDI is important, AFAIK.

If I don't use it here, I get video glitches and garbage onscreen.

It's got something to do with the blitter, IIRC.

Anyway, I triev v6. It does the same thing at 95Mhz - goes as far as the first screen, then
never advances.

Dropping the 060 down to 85Mhz, same thing. At 80Mhz, it will load and play but I get that
annoying locked into run mode. It's like the forward direction arrow/button is held down
all the time. I have to use the back arrow just to bring it to a halt. I can hit esc, move
around there and sometimes it will go back to normal. Starting a new game will reset it,
but it does it again not too far into the game.

At 75mhz, I get it sometimes, but not nearly as much. It's playable, I'm not complaining.

[dml]

Hi,

Here's one more try: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/129 ... _test7.zip

If this still freezes I'll probably need to wait until I can test on a real CT60 to investigate. Laurent has noticed similar problems with one of his projects when the clockrate is set in the 70+ region and we're beginning to wonder if something funny is happening between fast CT60s and DSPs....

BTW the locked keys problem - I assume you're playing with two hands on the keyboard? Not one on the keyboard, one on the mouse?

If so, it's an unrelated problem and affects 030 as well - limits on max simultaneous keys possible on Atari keyboard hardware. It loses track of key releases when too many keys of a certain type are held. It can be avoided by slightly reconfiguring the keys or using the mouse to control direction. I covered this one much farther back in the BM dev thread...

However if you find it is happening only in 060 mode, never in 030 mode, that is a bit suspicious. It always happened to me on a stock machine.

[shoggoth]

Worth mentioning, perhaps - some CT60:s seems to be less stable around ~70MHz, but runs ok at high 50-66MHz or >75MHz.

[dml]

Worth mentioning, perhaps - some CT60:s seems to be less stable around ~70MHz, but runs ok at high 50-66MHz or >75MHz.

Weird - but duly noted. Lets blame that one on resonance goblins.

[DarkLord]

Hi,

Here's one more try: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/129 ... _test7.zip

Just downloaded it - will try it later and report back.

If this still freezes I'll probably need to wait until I can test on a real CT60 to investigate. Laurent has noticed similar problems with one of his projects when the clockrate is set in the 70+ region and we're beginning to wonder if something funny is happening between fast CT60s and DSPs....

BTW the locked keys problem - I assume you're playing with two hands on the keyboard? Not one on the keyboard, one on the mouse?

If so, it's an unrelated problem and affects 030 as well - limits on max simultaneous keys possible on Atari keyboard hardware. It loses track of key releases when too many keys of a certain type are held. It can be avoided by slightly reconfiguring the keys or using the mouse to control direction. I covered this one much farther back in the BM dev thread...

However if you find it is happening only in 060 mode, never in 030 mode, that is a bit suspicious. It always happened to me on a stock machine.

Actually, I was playing with my left hand on the 4 arrow/direction keys and my right hand on the mouse.

It did happen a few times in '030 mode as well - just not as often. It occurred much more frequently the faster I had the '060 set.

Thanks for all the help/hard work!

[dml]

Actually, I was playing with my left hand on the 4 arrow/direction keys and my right hand on the mouse.
It did happen a few times in '030 mode as well - just not as often. It occurred much more frequently the faster I had the '060 set.

That's both interesting, and scary at the same time Not sure if this is an obscure hardware signal/stability thing or a software thing... if it's a software thing, others should get the same effect. Will see what else comes back on this one.

[Eero Tamminen]

this should now run under the latest Hatari in 060 mode, and should also work on 060. Lets see what happens.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/129 ... _test6.zip.

I tested this with MIDI music and TT-Ram in latest Hatari emulator from Mercurial, using (non-cycle accurate) 040 and 060 emulation:

Code: Select all

sudo modprobe snd-virmidi
qsynth &
aconnectgui &
<connect first virtual midi connection output to Fluidsynth input in aconnectgui>
hatari -s 14 --fast-forward yes --natfeats yes --machine falcon --cpulevel 6 --addr24 off --ttram 32 --midi-out /dev/snd/midiC1D0 --tos tos404.img ./bmdoom.ttp

It's playable and music sounds fine, but there are some weird issues:
* Statusbar is black although BM should detect Hatari with NatFeats. Have you disabled Hatari detection?
* Playing with keyboard and mouse sometimes randomly generates ESC (or at least BM shows Doom menu)
* Attract mode graphics are in the beginning black, maybe my cache is old and it doesn't detect it? (in game itself things look fine)
* Attract mode randomly pauses and unpauses by itself although I give no input to Hatari (music stops while it's running on background in my desktop and if I quickly switch back to Hatari, I see "paused" text)

[DarkLord]

Okay, just finished testing v7.

It's back to crashing totally at start @ 95Mhz. It looks like a different crash than before though:

P3040002.JPG

Dropping down to 75Mhz, it loads and runs, still exhibits the stuck key syndrome occasionally.

Thanks.

[ctirad]

In your case it looks more like an general unstability rather than a comaptibility issue.

[DarkLord]

I suppose that's always a possibility. <shrugs>

It runs fine at 75Mhz, can even go higher but the stuck key syndrome
becomes worse and worse. Approaching 95Mhz may be the tipping
point.

Keep in mind though, 95Mhz is my normal boot up speed. I run all
my other software from there with no problems. No crashes, freezes
or anything else. I tried 100mhz and above but then I do get random
crashes during bootup and after. 95Mhz has been very stable for me.

Its not a problem really - I can adjust the 060's speed on the fly with
the CTCM and play Bad Mood, then turn it back up for everything
else (or in a so called worst case scenario, boot up in 030 mode).