Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

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Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by lp »

Don't know how it happened, but the internet is wrong. This TT demo was produced by RezCo aka Phillip Burgess.

FYI, the YouTube link at pouet is wrong as well. http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=18190

What proof do I have you might ask. First of all Xanth was good at self promotion and you won't find a single reference to Xanth anywhere in the archive. Xanth didn't write demos in compiled GFA. Not to mention the binary is a bit buggy, also unlike Xanth.

Check out this demo by RezCo: http://cd.textfiles.com/suzybatari2/ani ... z/shiny91/
This demo is also complied GFA. Further more the documentation eludes to an upcoming TT version:

Code: Select all

It's been several years since Shiny Bubbles, created by Xanth, has 
been out.  It was great during its time, but our great 3D guru 
Phillip Burgess, of RezRender fame, decided to do a better one.  He
wrote a program, 'Bubbles' on his Mac IIcx that would generate each
frame (each frame took over an hour on his 25mhz machine).  I'm sure
that you would agree that it looks good.  Wait till you see our TT
version with 256 colors (on hold until we get the TT)!!!
The surface under the bubbles also looks very similiar.

That being said. I compared Shiny Bubbles TT to the Shiny Bubbles '91 via disassembly. Some portions are the same like the memory check and the memory error message right down to the letter. Someone took the '91 source code and simply modified it in a hurry to run on the TT. To me they are clearly from the same author, RezCo. ;)

Tried to contact Noel Saw (helped with the '91 version) via facebook and LinkedIn, but so far no response.
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by Cyprian »

interesting.

Pouet youtube link from TT version (http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=18190) points to the ST version and there we can see "Xanth production" mark
This is ST version: https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=14335
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by Cyprian »

I've just compared all those three versions and they are very similar but not the same.
Maybe they were rendered from the same source.

Shiny
https://equinox.planet-d.net/pouet/shiny.zip
Shiny.png
Shiny '91 - that one is marked "RezCo/NuEdge Designs co/Noel Saw" in the text file
http://cd.textfiles.com/suzybatari2/ani ... z/shiny91/
Shiny91.png
Shiny TT
http://cd.textfiles.com/crawlycrypt1/tt/shinytt1/
shinytt1.png
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Last edited by Cyprian on Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by lp »

Perhaps someone at Xanth gave the original 1987 3D data to Phillip Burgess. Phil was writing 3D tools back in the day, if anyone remembers ReZRender.
https://www.atarimagazines.com/startv4n4/rezrender.html
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by Cyprian »

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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by lp »

Here's the GFA v3.6 source code to the binary. Reverse engineered by me whilst studying it in the disassembler. It's a bit buggy.
I mean it contains all the original bugs. ;) File size match when compiled.

Code: Select all

REM #PF= fastload,load alt
'
INLINE palette%,512
IF 3080000<FRE(0)
  DIM asm_params%(16)
  oldmode%=XBIOS(4)
  ~XBIOS(5,L:-1,L:-1,W:7)
  @main
  ~XBIOS(5,L:-1,L:-1,W:oldmode%)
ELSE
  ALERT 1,"Not Enough Memory!",1,"Sorry",dummy%
ENDIF
CLEAR
END
'
PROCEDURE main
  DIM frm_dat|((153600+256)*20)
  DIM frm_ptr%(19)
  DIM tmp_buf|(153600+512)
  FOR i%=0 TO 19
    frm_ptr%(i%)=(INT((V:frm_dat|(0)+(i%*(153600+256)))/256)+1)*256
  NEXT i%
  tmp_buf%=(INT(V:tmp_buf|(0)/256)+1)*256
  PRINT "Loading frames";
  @load_frames(1,5)
  @load_frames(6,10)
  @load_frames(11,15)
  @load_frames(16,20)
  CLS
  HIDEM
  ~XBIOS(84,W:0,W:512,L:palette%)
  speed%=3
  vsync_!=TRUE
  splitscreen%=0
  DO
    frame%=0
    DO
      IF splitscreen%=FALSE
        ~XBIOS(5,L:frm_ptr%(frame%),L:frm_ptr%(frame%),W:-1)
      ELSE
        j%=0
        FOR i%=0 TO 480 STEP 2
          BMOVE frm_ptr%(frame%)+(i%*320),tmp_buf%+(j%*320),320
          ADD j%,1
        NEXT i%
        BMOVE tmp_buf%,tmp_buf%+(76800+320),76800
        ~XBIOS(5,L:tmp_buf%,L:tmp_buf%,W:-1)
      ENDIF
      IF vsync_!
        VSYNC
      ENDIF
      key$=INKEY$
      key%=CVI(key$)
      IF key%>58 AND kye%<69
        speed%=key%-59
      ELSE IF UPPER$(key$)="V"
        vsync_!=NOT vsync_!
      ELSE IF key$=" "
        splitscreen%=1-splitscreen%
      ENDIF
      PAUSE speed%*0.25
      INC frame%
    LOOP UNTIL frame%>19
  LOOP UNTIL MOUSEK
  SHOWM
  ERASE frm_ptr%()
  ERASE frm_dat|()
  ERASE tmp_buf|()
RETURN
PROCEDURE load_frames(fstart%,fend%)
  OPEN "i",#1,path$+"fr"+STR$(fstart%)+"_"+STR$(fend%)+".dat"
  FOR i%=fstart% TO fend%
    BGET #1,frm_ptr%(i%-1),153600
    PRINT ".";
  NEXT i%
  CLOSE #1
RETURN
PROCEDURE ice_depack
  INLINE asm_ice%,390
  asm_params%(8)=foo1%
  asm_params%(9)=foo2%
  RCALL asm_ice%,asm_params%()
RETURN
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by lp »

For comparison. Source code for Shiny Bubbles '91 reverse engineered. Compiling with GFA v3.5 yields file size match.

Code: Select all

@main
END
PROCEDURE main
  IF 645000<FRE(0)
    old_mode%=XBIOS(4)
    ~XBIOS(5,L:-1,L:-1,W:0)
    DIM old_pal(15)
    @pal_save
    OPEN "i",#1,path$+"nuedge.rez"
    SEEK #1,640032
    @load_degas
    @wait_key(5)
    @load_degas
    @wait_key(10)
    CLOSE #1
    @init(19)
    @load_frames(19,path$+"nuedge.rez")
    @animate
    OPEN "i",#1,path$+"nuedge.rez"
    SEEK #1,704100
    @load_degas
    CLOSE #1
    DELAY 10
    ~XBIOS(5,L:logbase%,L:physbase%,W:old_mode%)
    ~XBIOS(5,L:-1,L:-1,W:old_mode%)
    SHOWM
    @pal_restore
    ERASE frm_buf$()
    ERASE frm_ptr%()
    ERASE old_pal()
  ELSE
    ALERT 1,"Not enough memory!",1,"Sorry",dummy%
  ENDIF
RETURN
PROCEDURE animate
  HIDEM
  speed%=2
  fstart%=0
  fend%=19
  fdir%=1
  DO
    FOR i=fstart% TO fend% STEP fdir%
      ~XBIOS(5,L:frm_ptr%(i),L:frm_ptr%(i),W:-1)
      VSYNC
      key$=INKEY$
      key%=CVI(key$)
      IF key%>58 AND key%<69
        speed%=key%-59
      ENDIF
      IF UPPER$(key$)="F"
        fstart%=0
        fend%=19
        fdir%=1
      ELSE IF UPPER$(key$)="B"
        fstart%=19
        fend%=0
        fdir%=-1
      ENDIF
      PAUSE speed%*0.5
    NEXT i
  LOOP UNTIL ASC(key$)=17
  ERASE frm_buf$()
  ERASE frm_ptr%()
RETURN
PROCEDURE init(count|)
  LOCAL i|
  physbase%=XBIOS(2)
  logbase%=XBIOS(3)
  DIM frm_buf$(count|)
  DIM frm_ptr%(count|)
  FOR i|=0 TO count|
    frm_buf$(i|)=SPACE$(32512)
    frm_ptr%(i|)=(INT(V:frm_buf$(i|)/512)+1)*512
  NEXT i|
  pal_buf$=SPACE$(32)
  pal_ptr%=V:pal_buf$
RETURN
PROCEDURE load_frames(count|,p$)
  OPEN "i",#1,p$
  BGET #1,pal_ptr%,32
  FOR i=0 TO count|
    BGET #1,frm_ptr%(i),32000
  NEXT i
  CLOSE #1
  ~XBIOS(6,L:pal_ptr%)
RETURN
PROCEDURE pal_restore
  FOR reg|=0 TO 15
    ~XBIOS(7,W:reg|,W:old_pal(reg|))
  NEXT reg|
RETURN
PROCEDURE pal_save
  FOR reg|=0 TO 15
    old_pal(reg|)=XBIOS(7,W:reg|,W:-1)
  NEXT reg|
RETURN
PROCEDURE wait_key(seconds)
  LOCAL tmr%
  tmr%=TIMER
  DO
  LOOP UNTIL INKEY$<>"" OR TIMER-tmr%>(seconds*200)
RETURN
PROCEDURE load_degas
  @pal_black
  BGET #1,XBIOS(2)-34,32034
  ~XBIOS(6,L:XBIOS(2)-32)
RETURN
PROCEDURE pal_black
  FOR i=0 TO 15
    SETCOLOR i,0,0,0
  NEXT i
RETURN
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by Cyprian »

how did you recreate that GFA source code? by looking disassembled ASM code?
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by ThorstenOtto »

I guess someone who wrote hundreds of extensions to the GFA compiler knows how compiled GFA looks like :D
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by mjvans »

lp wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:57 pm Here's the GFA v3.6 source code to the binary. Reverse engineered by me whilst studying it in the disassembler. It's a bit buggy.
I mean it contains all the original bugs. ;) File size match when compiled.
Procedure ice_depack is never called?
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by lp »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:55 am I guess someone who wrote hundreds of extensions to the GFA compiler knows how compiled GFA looks like :D
Precisely. ;)
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by lp »

mjvans wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:17 pm Procedure ice_depack is never called?
Correct. They might of been planning to pack the large data files, but it was never completed. The inline does contain the ice unpacking asm code.
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by lp »

The most interesting thing from the listings which isn't obvious at first glance is the OPEN statements. A useless string (path$) is prepended for no good reason in both versions. Who does that? The same coder, that's who does that. ;)

Prior to the internet I was in direct contact with Phil Burgess through a BBS. Ask him for the source code to something, forget what, but he said his HD went down and he was working to restore it. That's the last I heard from him and then lost track of him. My guess is all this stuff is long gone anyway. Although it would be nice to find him, I've had no luck so far.
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by lp »

Was successful in finding Noel Saw credited in the Shiny Bubbles '91 version. He has confirmed what I already knew. Phillip sent Noel the 20 frames and a friend named Marvin modified the '91 GFA player code for the TT version. Plan to speak to him some more, his time was limited. I'm sure I can get his permission to post the relevant portion of the conversation.
Last edited by lp on Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by Cyprian »

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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by lp »

Wasn't able to screenshot the entire conversation with Noel, but here's part of it as proof. Below is as ASCII copy of the conversion minus some irrelevant stuff. For whatever reason cut/paste didn't get the dates and that's why the time stamps seem out of order. The conversation took place across several days.
noel-saw.png

Code: Select all

This is the very beginning of your direct message history with @noel saw

Lonny Pursell  12:30 PM
Hi Noel, I was hoping I could speak to you about your Atari ST days, if you 
have time.  Thanks.

noel saw  9:50 AM
Hi @Lonny Pursell nice to meet you.
Wow that was a long time.
You must have seen my LinkedIn account lol.
Lol great email address you have.
Which part of ST History where you interested in?

Lonny Pursell  10:12 AM
Yes, a search of your name and NuEdge led me to your LinkedIn page. Was 
wondering if you remember Phillip Burgess (RezCo) and if he released his 
version of Shiny Bubbles for the Atari TT030? I'm pretty sure he did, but it's 
been wrongly credited to Xanth F/X all these years. Unfortunately, no success 
in tracking down Phil.

noel saw  10:13 AM
Yep Phil kind of disappeared.  He used to live in South Pasadena.
He was working on for a Satellite imaging company in the early 90s.
I have no idea where he ended up.

Lonny Pursell  10:14 AM
I may of found him, the resume looked right, the name was right, the age about 
right. However, this person instantly blocked me when I asked about the old 
Atari days.

noel saw  10:14 AM
Dang lol
Sorry
I definitely have fond memories of the Atari days.

Lonny Pursell  10:15 AM
You don't remember if he pushed the TT shiny bubbles out to the public before 
vanishing?

noel saw  10:15 AM
It was actually through me and my friend Marvin.
Marvin modified the player code.
Atari gave us two TT030s after winning the STE demo contest.
I think either Chicago or Virgina show.
Could we chat a little more later? Have a deadline tomorrow.

Lonny Pursell  10:17 AM
Shiny Bubbles TT - AtariUpToDate
Here's an example with photo, but its credited to Xanth F/X
Quite a few demo sites and everyone has it wrong. :disappointed:
https://www.atariuptodate.de/img/shiny-bubbles-tt.png

noel saw  10:18 AM
I honestly forgot how it looks like.
I definitely credit my Atari days helped me professionally without having to 
get a college degree.

Lonny Pursell  10:18 AM
The player code is GFA, I'm dead sure it's not from Xanth.

noel saw  10:19 AM
Yep Marvin wrote the player code after we received frames from Phil
I lost tough of Marvin too.
*Touch with

Lonny Pursell  10:19 AM
I was in touch with Phil back when modems were still used on some BBS

noel saw  10:19 AM
So you are correct with the history.
BBS days lol
Sorry gotta run for my deadline.
We can continue chatting if you’d like later.

Lonny Pursell  10:20 AM
Sure, I might have a question or two left. :wink:

noel saw  10:30 AM
Chat tomorrow!

Lonny Pursell  10:31 AM
Cya

Lonny Pursell  9:35 AM
Would you mind if I posted a small excerpt from this chat? Maybe then I can get
get the demos history corrected.

noel saw  10:09 AM
Sure go for it.
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by Luposian »

My handle today (Luposian) is not the name I used to go by back in the late 80's/early 90's... it was "Wolf". I knew Philip Burgess (handle:
"Helvetica Bold"), Brian Eliassen (handle:"TI0!"; The Insane One"), Noel Saw ("Yak-Yak"? I may be getting that handle confused with someone else), Matt Koundachian (handle: "Hack-Hack") Dennis Travis (handle: "The Karate Kid"), etc. A bunch of us all lived in the Pasadena, CA area or thereabouts. Brian ran a BBS, called LV-426 (based on the "Alien" movie, as I recall), we frequented BBS's like "Mike's Video House", "GreyCastle", and others.

I believe Noel Saw may have been responsible for creating the logo for my company name "Quadrion Software", which was involved in a game idea of mine called "Lava Crew", programmed by Brian Eliassen, in STOS for the Atari ST (I still have copies of the original game (.PRG) on some thumb drives). Recently, I was able to have a guy from Finland recreate Lava Crew for iOS. And it's FAAAAAR better, in so many ways, I couldn't count them all! Only took about 30 years to happen :lol: . Anyone with an iPhone or iPad can download it for free from the Apple app store. I give credit to Brian, where due, including a video snippet of the original Lava Crew! I'd like to get in touch with a lot of the guys from that time period (we're all getting older! I'm 55 now! Ugh!), but the only one that I've been able to stay in contact with, is Dennis Travis.

If anyone can get in touch with Brian Eliassen, tell him to stop typing +++ to my Atari SX212 modem (which I used to run "Wolves Den BBS" way back then)! He loved crashing it! :lol:
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by lotek_style »

Thanks for all these informations... I finally added the 91 version to Demozoo... totally missed it.

https://demozoo.org/productions/340208/
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by Luposian »

Update: Dennis Travis (“Karate Kid”) died on Dec. 28, 2023. He was 74. I’ll miss talking to him, but at least I know I’ll see him again…
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Re: Shiny Bubbles TT was created by RezCo and not Xanth

Post by evil »

Being bored for a bit, I converted the Shiny Bubbles TT to the STe using Spectrum 4096 display.
Had to crop the images to 170 lines so it would fit in 1 MB and one diskette.

http://files.dhs.nu/demos/sbttste.zip

Only tested on my own STe, your luck may vary :)
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