CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by wietze »

sigmate wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:46 pm How did you get this rejoicing impression?
Rumour has it some people are working on developing something something.
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by sigmate »

Oh my! Let it be true! Any place or channel I could stick my ears to in order to hear these rumors too?
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by saulot »

foft wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:57 pm
saulot wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:32 pm Boot rom can be patched in 030 mode as far I remember, so if something wents wrong you can reporgram it. Honestly there were some ct60 hardware revisions along the way and after this long time it's hard to remember what version of a tools should be used for given hardware version.
I tried running the flashing software in 030 mode and it says 'CT60 not found'. So how does one go about this? Can it be done by JTAG or does the chip need removing to flash?
So I don't know what's going on. It shouldn't be that way. You should always have an option to reflash tos from 030 mode. I don't have much experience with ct63 and up, because I have only first batch i.e. ct60 and it works like I've mentioned. There's no other way, because some long time ago I tested Insane's tos 1.05 patches(and they didn't work on ct60 due to firmware bugs) and I could revert to good, old 1.03c without problems.
JTAG is only for board firmware, not operating system. TOS should be flashed from 060 or 030 mode, but 030 is safer, because flash memory is not used.
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by Orion_ »

here my patched program for CT63 for micron M29F800FT flash chip, binary patched, not recompiled, CT60CONF.CPX tested, flash060.prg not tested.
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by Orion_ »

I have a black screen problem when booting in 060 mode.
To make it work I have to boot in 030 mode, then switch to 060 while Powered On (I guess this is not recommanded) and then reset.
that is the only way I have to boot into 060 mode.
As stated at the bottom of this page https://mikrosk.github.io/ct60tos/ct60/ ... ting63.htm
I replaced the C7 with a polarized 47uF capacitor 25V, and this didn't change anything, I still have the booting issue.
I also have a 74F04 on top of U63 connected to r216/r222/r221, do I need to replace it by 33ohm resistors to solve the boot issue or is this only related to SDMA/Stability issue ?
If I do the 33ohm resistor replacement, do I also need to solder a 47ohm resistor near the SDMA ?
I'm having stability issue at 90mhz (some demos like Payback hang at the middle of the demo)
it's working fine a 75Mhz (no sound issue)
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by foft »

Orion_ wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 11:02 am here my patched program for CT63 for micron M29F800FT flash chip, binary patched, not recompiled, CT60CONF.CPX tested, flash060.prg not tested.
Thanks. I tried flashing 1.03c and it sort of boots! The memory test etc works, but then it doesn't make it to the desktop. I think perhaps it wrote some of it ok but not all of it due to the different page sizes?

Funnily enough it flashed from 030 mode too, so not sure why I couldn't get that to work with the other version of flash060.prg. Perhaps I had the wrong one!

edit: Flashed back to 1.05 and it works. So errr, not sure exactly what is going on. If it was just some non-erazed pages then 1.05 would presumably also not work since these pages would be all the low bits between 1.03 and 1.05.
Last edited by foft on Sun Oct 09, 2022 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by Orion_ »

on my CT60 I noticed that CT60CONF.CPX only works in 030 mode, I can't modify the frequency from 060 mode (don't change after a reset)
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by foft »

Orion_ wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 3:47 pm on my CT60 I noticed that CT60CONF.CPX only works in 030 mode, I can't modify the frequency from 060 mode (don't change after a reset)
Ah that explains why it still didn't seem to work for now. I only tried it in 060 mode.

In 060 mode I see 'Type de flash inconnu!'

it seemed to work a few times in 030 mode, but now seems stuck at 132MHz! At least it only boots at half clock speed mode - and then at 66MHz!
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by foft »

Orion_ wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 12:38 pm I have a black screen problem when booting in 060 mode.
To make it work I have to boot in 030 mode, then switch to 060 while Powered On (I guess this is not recommanded) and then reset.
that is the only way I have to boot into 060 mode.
As stated at the bottom of this page https://mikrosk.github.io/ct60tos/ct60/ ... ting63.htm
I replaced the C7 with a polarized 47uF capacitor 25V, and this didn't change anything, I still have the booting issue.
I also have a 74F04 on top of U63 connected to r216/r222/r221, do I need to replace it by 33ohm resistors to solve the boot issue or is this only related to SDMA/Stability issue ?
If I do the 33ohm resistor replacement, do I also need to solder a 47ohm resistor near the SDMA ?
I'm having stability issue at 90mhz (some demos like Payback hang at the middle of the demo)
it's working fine a 75Mhz (no sound issue)
I have the same issue. I was wondering earlier in this thread if its down to the relative ramp up time of 3.3v vs 5.0v from the PSU. Now I found this thread with some nice measurements from @mpattonm, which seems to confirm that.
viewtopic.php?t=35146
What I find interesting is that slower 3.3v ramp up does seem to break it looking at those plots and also one of the best PSUs fails.

Now in my case both of them finish ramping up well before coming out of reset, though perhaps something happens then regardless?

Now adding that C7 capacitor does not really change reset much as far as I can tell, its basically just an extra capacitor over the power rails. Perhaps delaying the 5V ramp up a little?! Adding extra capacitance to C1 does make reset much longer.

I measured my PSU and the ripple is a bit high (100mV pk-pk noise and ~30mV pk-pk ripple). Which did not change when I added a load resistor on 5V and 12V. Though that does not seem to impact it in once started. So I'm thinking its more likely ramp up.

I'm tempted to try cutting the 3.3v line from the ATX psu and driving it from the decent 5V-3.3V regulator I've been using on the TF1260 (recommended by one of the official builders).

To make is clearer here is what is going on with my PSU:

Power on:
Yellow: 5V, Pink 3.3v, Blue RESET
So reset is low for a LONG time, 100s of ms after power ramps up.
ScreenImg(3).png
Relative ramp up: 3.3v is ~4ms after 5v:
ScreenImg(4).png
Ripple on 5v:
ScreenImg(5).png
Ripple on 3.3v:
ScreenImg(6).png
Same as first, but with green for 'power good'. I wonder if I can connect a relay to that?!:
ScreenImg(7).png
Lots of info here on psu requirements. 3.3v <20ms after 5v is ok
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/p ... e-june.pdf
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Last edited by foft on Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by wietze »

sigmate wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:47 am Oh my! Let it be true! Any place or channel I could stick my ears to in order to hear these rumors too?
Visit Sommarhack.
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by sigmate »

Well, that's one excellent additional reason, thanks! :D
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by foft »

I just fitted a nice AM29F800BB, its so nice to be able to flash properly and save settings in the boot menu!

Now onto the 'only starts in 030 mode' problem...
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by foft »

The 030 mode issue is fixed if 3.3v is powered before 5v. I'll build a circuit to do this automatically.

@mpattonm, perhaps worth considering building this mechanism into the next run?

One last issue remaining:
The fan doesn't spin up. I thought the CT63 didn't have the 060 thermal monitoring connected up? So how does it decide when to spin this up?
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by mpattonm »

foft wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:19 pm One last issue remaining:
The fan doesn't spin up. I thought the CT63 didn't have the 060 thermal monitoring connected up? So how does it decide when to spin this up?
Sry guys, I am still tied to other tasks.
Fan is (in default setting) controlled by temperature. It kicks in at around 47degC and shuts down when the temp drops to around 42degC
You can also change the behavior to "always on" by moving solder jumper next to fan connector. Setting is silkcreened on PCB.
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by foft »

mpattonm wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:36 pm
foft wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:19 pm One last issue remaining:
The fan doesn't spin up. I thought the CT63 didn't have the 060 thermal monitoring connected up? So how does it decide when to spin this up?
Sry guys, I am still tied to other tasks.
Fan is (in default setting) controlled by temperature. It kicks in at around 47degC and shuts down when the temp drops to around 42degC
You can also change the behavior to "always on" by moving solder jumper next to fan connector. Setting is silkcreened on PCB.
Thanks. It thinks my CPU is 2-4 degrees! I guess I need to calibrate it somehow...

While I'm asking this, one more question:
Is it possible to solder on those missing chips on the bottom right of the board and then boost the Falcon bus by wiring it up as with a CT60?
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by Orion_ »

Is it ok if I Power On in 030 mode, then Hold Reset, switch to 060 mode and release Reset ?
Will this damage my CT60 or Falcon ?
Because it's the only way for me to start the 060 mode.
(I'm holding the reset button in a hope that it will not harm the 060 when switching in 060 mode while powered on)
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by sety »

Orion_ wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:04 am Is it ok if I Power On in 030 mode, then Hold Reset, switch to 060 mode and release Reset ?
Will this damage my CT60 or Falcon ?
Because it's the only way for me to start the 060 mode.
(I'm holding the reset button in a hope that it will not harm the 060 when switching in 060 mode while powered on)
I do this all the time when I'm in a hurry and switching between modes. Doesn't seem to hurt it. You don't even need to press reset when going from 060 to 030. :)
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by foft »

I tried to say this before but perhaps it wasn’t clear.

The 060/030 switching looks like an easy fix. It’s a power sequencing thing where if 5v comes up before 3.3v the 060 mode doesn’t work. This timing is different depending on which ATX psu you have.

The fix is to power up 3.3v then 5v. I did this temporarily by putting a switch on the 5v power, though the better way will be to use a relay or a mosfet.

Clearly this is a fault in the original CT60 design, which has not been fixed through many revisions.

Of course you can workaround by using 030 mode then 060 mode, though I think it’d be better to fix the power sequencing instead.
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by viking272 »

Hi foft, you seem to making steady progress here - good work! :cheers:
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by Orion_ »

foft wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:13 am The 060/030 switching looks like an easy fix. It’s a power sequencing thing where if 5v comes up before 3.3v the 060 mode doesn’t work. This timing is different depending on which ATX psu you have.
easier said than done on a picopsu and when I'm not very good at electronics
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by redpixel »

foft wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:13 am The fix is to power up 3.3v then 5v. I did this temporarily by putting a switch on the 5v power, though the better way will be to use a relay or a mosfet.

Clearly this is a fault in the original CT60 design, which has not been fixed through many revisions.
Might be wise to use a load switch, like TPS22992 or similar. Then you also get some in-built protection :) Guess it would be nice to have it directly on the CT63 for the next revision, like you suggested. Nice to see that you're making progress!
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by foft »

Orion_ wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:37 pm
foft wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:13 am The 060/030 switching looks like an easy fix. It’s a power sequencing thing where if 5v comes up before 3.3v the 060 mode doesn’t work. This timing is different depending on which ATX psu you have.
easier said than done on a picopsu and when I'm not very good at electronics
I meant an 'easy fix' in terms of known thing to change, not that its trivial to fix! I'm still trying to come up with a simple PCB design to add a chip to switch the 5v line (I'm considering the MP5075).

Probably it'd be easier to replace the pico psu with a known 'good' one that does the sequencing in the order the CT60 needs. Unfortunately I don't know which power on in this order.

In the meantime I was looking at the temperature sensor and, the 2022 edition CT63, does indeed have the needed TLV0831 chip (This was removed on the original CT63). I can't work out how to change the offset though, if I double click on the 'Thres' I get a screen that shows 'Offset TLV 2.8C/unit: -1_ unit. In this I can edit the number, but whatever I set it to it doesn't seem to make any difference. How is this supposed to work?
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by dml »

Concerning PICO PSUs... I had good success with one of these - 250w version:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334069065214 ... 3083585966

...while a different (and much older) model of PICO was definitely not working, probably the same issue - wrong sequencing of 5v/3.3v.

Note that the 24pin PICOs can work in the 20pin socket if you clip the unwanted 4 pins off the correct side using quality flush cutters. A bit of extra hassle, but it works.
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by foft »

Thanks, I just ordered that 250w one from Ali express (out of stock on eBay). I’ll post back if it works in a few weeks!
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMvHb1q
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Re: CT60/CT63 will be available soon again

Post by foft »

foft wrote: Sun Oct 30, 2022 9:52 pm Thanks, I just ordered that 250w one from Ali express (out of stock on eBay). I’ll post back if it works in a few weeks!
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMvHb1q
It arrived and this one does not work (requires reset to boot). I might have a look to see if there is any way to easily mod it...
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