TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

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TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by matej »

My idea is to have/develop:
2x YM 2203 (3x fm / 3x psg)
1x YM 2149 from Your ATARI ST (3channels - stereo out)

So - 9PSG and/or 6FM+3psg channels

Same standard as little Atari got StereoPokey upgrade (8channels stereo) on 8bit XE/XL Atari.
Or TurboSound soundcard on ZX Spectrum.

The YM2203, a.k.a. OPN (FM Operator Type-N), is a six channel (3 FM and 3 SSG) sound chip developed by Yamaha.

The YM2203 has the following features:

- Three concurrent FM channels (voices)
- Four operators per channel
- Two interval timers
- Internal implementation of Yamaha's YM2149F SSG chip

Wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YM2203

How it sounds only FM 2203?
https://youtu.be/FIeszfJJmjE
https://youtu.be/8osi0QhAot8
https://youtu.be/9ra2szcrVFg

YM2203 TFM Music Maker Tracker -
https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=53467

Latter GWEM can upgrade His MaxYMiser Tracker with more YM channels and maybe FM too in future for TriYM...

How much YM2203 chip cost?
Circa 10Euro each. Also is common as it was in Sega, Konami etc arcades.

Mix -
And maybe ABC channel A and C - to stereo jack or 2x cinch and B 1x to subwoofer from original PSG YM2149 for deep bass
And whole 1x YM2203 to A and whole 1x YM2203 to C.
So it will be stereo+subwoofer or 2.1 soundcard...

Why this all?
Atari 800 XE/XL have StereoPokey as standard or + Covox. And some people have PokeyMAX (QuadPokey = 16 channels, or plus AY, SID...). But standard is 8channels also Covox is standard too for samples.
ZX Spectrum got 6channel SAA1099 soundcard from SamCoupé or 2x YM2203 Turbosound. C64 dualSID or 3SID is standard from 2020s also they have new FM-YAM with OPL2 from Yamaha similar to Adlib or Soundblaster, MSX2 got Opl4 Moonsound with wavetable, Amiga got new DSP soundcards...

I think we have lot of RAM 1mb or 4mb, Gotek, Ultrasatan, also few of us VOFA ISA STVGA too but no soundcard only Dreamblaster exist. Dreamblaster is perfect but not for Demoscene or new games ideal for Cubas or Adventure games ports from PCs. So we need something with more retro sound (simple like YM, Pokey or SID) and much cheaper (40Euro-50euro solution). Why not FPGA? As it is chip shortage also its not 100% emulation - simulation. FM will give new arcade feeling to games. Original ATARI used FM+YM combo in their arcade systems. Also its huge difference between 3 channels and 9 YM PSG or 6+3PSG. FM will be usable in Demos too(on PC they use softsynths FM sounds little bit similar to it or AceTracker use DSP on Falcon). I own 800XE and its huge difference between 4channel tunes and 8channels. 8 channels stereo are much more amazing!

We have all upgrades now time for classic soundchips SoundCard too. Lets call it TriYM (threeYM). And YM2203 is ideal as it have standard YM inside plus FM feature...
Last edited by matej on Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:19 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by sporniket »

This kind of project is always interesting. How would it be interfaced with the ST ?
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by matej »

I think ideal to have little internal board like on XE/XL You will put into YM2149 socket and plus few wires (signals on motherboard) or another way can be as cartridge (I have 200 ATARI cartridge shells never used at home) this will be ideal for people dont want drill holes into case(gamers, collectors etc). Personally I own A800XE + stereo and + 1mb ram and got holes for cinch like Amiga plus little switch (mono/stereo) and case looks clean nice with audio out like on A600 but I am chimusician fan, and I like demoscene.
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by Cyprian »

@matej I would like to buy one.
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by viking272 »

Amazing sound! Interesing project for sure
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by DarkLord »

I would be interested in the internal one. Got too many other cartridges
vying for space as it is. :)

Also, I know this is a stretch, but how would software support go? Will it
automatically make everything sound better (games, MOD players, MIDI
files, etc) or would it have to be re-written to take advantage of this?

Thanks, and thanks for supporting the Atari community with new and
innovative ideas.
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by matej »

Probably with some patches games will be doable for classic music. Also will play original tune on YM2149. But demos use lot of tricks to have better bass for example etc. Or SID like YM 2149 sound. Lot of tricks in trackers. So FM will dont play it easily. But on OPL3 my friend made SID player for Soundblaster on PC. So it is doable. My vision is to have 100% compatible card with YM plus extra features FM and extra classic channels.
Probably first will be fm/ym psg player (vgm, tfm, multichannel ym file, fm+ym file) and player for STOS, asm or GFA etc as on little Atari they have SAP player (mono,stereo,samples) or rmt player for games, demos. Latter tracker, patches, demos, games.
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by Cyprian »

what about 2x YM 2149 to have more YM channels?
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by mikro »

Idea - check.
Cool name - check.
Wishlist for software - check.

Now only everything else and we are done.

How are your other projects coming along?
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by matej »

@mikro blablabla - (offtopic)

How is Your Falcon 060 ATX project going. I know Centurion Tech is doing amazing job on His Falcon remake but Your Falcon 060 ATX project You are(was?) team leader here on Atari Forum... ??? I started idea wrote to people You wanted be team leader(only You) and as I know there is no such Falcon 060 ATX (since 5 years ago). I started brainstorming with Didier(ct60) and Gunnar from Apollo Team (we had lot of irc and discord and emails) even they released their 68080 lite version FPGA code for such projects (FOR US) after I wrote to them like 20x each week. Also bought 20 fm chips better than YM. Made research with Didier on them. Than You wanted to be team leader and talked lot of poo on me. So I just make music for myself and Atari stuff only for me. So where is Your F060??? Where is Your leadership??? Where is our Falcon 060 or 080??? Do We - have it. DONT. Thats true. And development of F060 stopped under Your influence correct me if I am wrong. Didier had family problems but promised us to keep help (checking PCBs in CAD and consultations) - when You will find people doing PCB motherboard instead of Him. And I know Your 2 friends can do it pretty well. And You done nothing. Correct me if I am wrong. Apollo made their stand alone instead supporting us Atari scene with their 68080... We should have CT83 at least from it. When not F060 ATX. They was happy to help our community and You had leadership and talked a lot...

Every coin got two sides Mikro...

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Last edited by matej on Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:14 am, edited 19 times in total.
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by matej »

Cyprian wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:35 pm what about 2x YM 2149 to have more YM channels?
Yes it is possible https://forums.atariage.com/topic/24802 ... eo-boards/
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by matej »

This will be good start:

Here is single YM2203 instead of YM2149 on Exxos Forum:
https://exxosforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4124

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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by unseenmenace »

matej wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:41 am Here is single YM2203 instead of YM2149 on Exxos Forum:
Image
This was a design I put together (though the above is an old version of it) and I posted on Exxos Forum hoping to get some help with it to confirm my thoughts on being able to make the ST use the YM2203 as if it were a YM2149. They're not pin compatible but the YM2203 contains all the features of the YM2149 plus the addition of the 3 FM voices. I've already ordered a lot of the parts but while I'm good with a soldering iron, I wanted some guidance from someone with more electronics experience before I order some PCBs.
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by matej »

Nice. I think we can start with Your card and when it will works upgrade to 2x YM2203 it will be good step. My idea is also to add original YM2149 from ST motherboard (simply to use it as everyone got it).
Wrote You PM(please check). Also will ask Shiru who made TFM Music Maker Tracker to give us full TFM module description also player tracker source. He is nice know Him from Sega Megadrive homebrew.
So I think good starting point will be to make Your card happen first (6channels - 3FM and 3PSG). Test it on real ST. And latter make v2 - with 2x YM2203+old chip (9xPSG, 6xFM)

V1 - 1x 2203
V2 - 2x 2203 + spare YM2149 from motherboard
Why 2x 2203? To be able replay full TFM modules (Turbosound FM - ZX Spectrum standard and also TFM is Sega Megadrive standard) so lot of tunes instruments already exist, also PC TFM tracker similar to Raster RMT Tracker or ArkosTracker... Its good as You can compose on ultrabook everywhere. Latter maybe tracker on real ST...
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by saulot »

@matej: I've done recently adapter for opl2/3lpt(https://bitbucket.org/nokturnal/stfmtest/src/master/), so it's similar to fm-yam. I'm working on more software for it. Of course board would be much better. I would really like to see something similar to 8-bit atari pokeyMax with stereo ym2149, SIDs and opl3.
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by Cyprian »

@saulot do you have a spare one? I would like to buy it
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by saulot »

@cyprian I have some prototypes with ports, but I don't have time to solder them. Possibly I will make small batch, when I will have more software to actually use it. In general you don't need pcb at all, simple wires will do the job too.
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by Cyprian »

Jak bedziesz mial cos zmontowanego to chętnie wezmę. Nie potrzebuję software, sam chciałbym napisać
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by matej »

saulot wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:55 pm @matej: I've done recently adapter for opl2/3lpt(https://bitbucket.org/nokturnal/stfmtest/src/master/), so it's similar to fm-yam. I'm working on more software for it. Of course board would be much better. I would really like to see something similar to 8-bit atari pokeyMax with stereo ym2149, SIDs and opl3.
Image
Very nice I have 2x opl3lpt from Serda. Will you do that adapter for printer port? When yes will buy 2x or 4x. Also will send You my modules Adlibtracke2/Edlib.

And also will try to do TFM ym2203 soundcard (as it will be ym2149 internal compatible).
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by saulot »

@matej/cyprian: I didn't order final pcb versions yet, so when I will be ordering I probably will let everyone know. Currently I have only unassembled early prototypes (dev and end user), which have some minor errors and need little rewiring. Right now I don't have much time for soldering, so you have to wait a little bit or order/manufacture pcbs by yourself.
Software wise I'm working on midi / adlib related support, next will be implementation / player of one of the formats with opl dumps (vgm, dosbox dumps or similar) and/or https://www.3eality.com/productions/rea ... ib-tracker format. I think Edlib would be possible too, but I would have to convert replay sources from c64 (or DOS) to st. I looked at adlib tracker sources, but it is pascal + sdl ;(, I don't want to have anything in common with both of them.. Secondly I'm don't know how much interest is in opl on Atari platform and I don't want to invest too much time in something which no one will use. But having support for all of these would be interesting.
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by matej »

Thank You, let me know when they will be available probably will take 4x for (2x opl2lpt and 2x opl3lpt). Yes RAD RadLib Tracker or VGM songs will be cool! Will do RAD or another tunes. Or dump as You wrote. Something as on C64 FM-YAM. Yes support from musicians, coders, gamers - I think when 10 or 20 active people will support it - will be FM scene (I think on XE/XL there are 20 max active stereo musicians and its tiny but nice scene). Atari ST owns 100s of people so probably will be more. Maybe remakes similar as Dread (Doom like soundtrack) or Metal Slug (Sega Megadrive) with FM will helps.
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by saulot »

Sure, I don't have an interest to keep everything for myself ;). Adapter is the same for both opl2lpt and opl3lpt. The real difference is only in particilar chip access timings. The bad thing with oplxlpt is that it's read only, so there is no possibility to detect chip type as on PC by software.
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by unseenmenace »

The main thing I want someone to check is whether my circuitry for adapting the chip control makes sense.

This is how the YM2149 is controlled
Bus2149.jpg
This is what the YM2203 has
Bus2203.jpg
This is what I came up with to control the YM2203 correctly on an ST
Bus Translation.jpg
matej wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:52 am Nice. I think we can start with Your card and when it will works upgrade to 2x YM2203 it will be good step. My idea is also to add original YM2149 from ST motherboard (simply to use it as everyone got it).
Wrote You PM(please check). Also will ask Shiru who made TFM Music Maker Tracker to give us full TFM module description also player tracker source. He is nice know Him from Sega Megadrive homebrew.
So I think good starting point will be to make Your card happen first (6channels - 3FM and 3PSG). Test it on real ST. And latter make v2 - with 2x YM2203+old chip (9xPSG, 6xFM)
The nice thing about using the YM2203 is that there's loads of tunes out there for it thanks to it's inclusion in the Japanese PC98 systems. You can also take instrument patches from an even wider variety of tunes from various systems using similar Yamaha FM chips.
matej wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 5:52 am V1 - 1x 2203
V2 - 2x 2203 + spare YM2149 from motherboard
Why 2x 2203? To be able replay full TFM modules (Turbosound FM - ZX Spectrum standard and also TFM is Sega Megadrive standard) so lot of tunes instruments already exist, also PC TFM tracker similar to Raster RMT Tracker or ArkosTracker... Its good as You can compose on ultrabook everywhere. Later maybe tracker on real ST...
Sounds like a good idea, and I'm actually working on musical notation based music program similar to Quartet but with 8 tracks and I hope to add YM2203 support to it.
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by matej »

Thank You for reply and description! Good news.

YES PC98, Sega Genesis/Megadrive, ZX Spectrum Turbosound FM and VGM files from Arcades. So lot of music.

Sequencer - That will be amazing to have support in native sequencer/instrument editor. Also connecting MIDI keyboard or controller will user have synth.
Hope Gwem will make support into MaxYMiser too latter. Maybe first just YM2149 9x mode later 6xfm plus 3xpsg.

Will write tomorrow more.
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Re: TriYM - Atari ST YM Soundcard

Post by Stefan jL »

saulot wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 9:57 am Secondly I'm don't know how much interest is in opl on Atari platform and I don't want to invest too much time in something which no one will use. But having support for all of these would be interesting.
The OPL3 is a very capable soundchip and if a replayer for Adlib Tracker 2 tunes is made and works on the ST-range without killing the CPU :wink: it might be a success and maybe lure some PC composers to make some ST-OPL3 tunes as well :)

Adlib Tracker 2 sound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLeCYiPC3Y0
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