Acorn Archimedes

https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, spiny, Greenious, Moderator Team

Post Reply
User avatar
vebxenon
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1034
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:10 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by vebxenon »

hubersn wrote:
ADF is a simple sector dump and cannot include copy protection. Or do you refer to the "manual" protection?

Ian Bell's homepage should have an "unprotected" Elite .adf. See here for suitable versions: http://www.elitehomepage.org/arc/index.htm
Manual protection, that's it. I'm going to try Ian Bell version.

Yes. Someone wants to add APD and JFD?

hubersn
For example I've only found Lotus 2 on JFD format after several months. I don't know why so many games are not available around the net...
Just a computer and videogame lover :)

- Atari Jr 2600 clone
- Atari 7800 Peritel
- Atari XEGS
- Atari Lynx II
- Atari Jaguar
- MiST Board
slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1838
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by slingshot »

The disk image called "Archimedes Elite" doesn't have any protection.
User avatar
vebxenon
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1034
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:10 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by vebxenon »

slingshot wrote:The disk image called "Archimedes Elite" doesn't have any protection.
Have you tested on VGA James Pond? Graphics appear scrambled/corrupt.
Just a computer and videogame lover :)

- Atari Jr 2600 clone
- Atari 7800 Peritel
- Atari XEGS
- Atari Lynx II
- Atari Jaguar
- MiST Board
slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1838
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by slingshot »

vebxenon wrote:
slingshot wrote:The disk image called "Archimedes Elite" doesn't have any protection.
Have you tested on VGA James Pond? Graphics appear scrambled/corrupt.
Not yet. I'm not around my MiST on the whole day ;)

Upd.: yeah, it's messed up. Similar to the Spectrum Emulator, maybe it works only at 15 kHZ.
Upd2.: it works in 15kHz. Go to the display configure app, choose monitor type 0, and choose a new mode (or check automatic mode). Then start the game.
hubersn
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:10 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by hubersn »

vebxenon wrote: For example I've only found Lotus 2 on JFD format after several months. I don't know why so many games are not available around the net...
RISC OS is a strange system, there are still dealers around selling that stuff "as new", so copyright is still taken very seriously in RISC OS land. There ain't no such thing as Abandonware on RISC OS. No problem for me, since I have nearly all the originals...

Lotus 2 had an interesting disc protection, so it cannot be done as simple .adf (unless it is a cracked version, but to be honest, those cracked versions were not very common on Archimedes). JFD can contain the protection intact. So what we would need to gain instant APD and JFD support is a possibility for harddisc support to run ADFFS (the floppy emulator that can read ADF, APD and JFD). ADFFS however needs quite precise simulation, and some kind of filing system support that is not a floppy disc because it replaces ADFS for floppy drives.

Emulators like Arculator do this normally via emulating a simple IDE podule where software support is available (e.g. ICS IDE along with ZIDEFS). Another possibility is to add "new PC-style IO" like it is found in A5000/A4000/A3020/A4 which is based on 82c711, so that ADFS IDE would work out of the box (if you can provide block access to a .hdf file of course!).

Have fun
hubersn
slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1838
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by slingshot »

hubersn wrote:
Emulators like Arculator do this normally via emulating a simple IDE podule where software support is available (e.g. ICS IDE along with ZIDEFS). Another possibility is to add "new PC-style IO" like it is found in A5000/A4000/A3020/A4 which is based on 82c711, so that ADFS IDE would work out of the box (if you can provide block access to a .hdf file of course!).

Have fun
hubersn
It seems the built-in IDE in RISC OS (with the 82c711 chip) works only if the FDC is also used from that chip. That means a brand new FDC is required. However I found the Risc Developments IDE interface, which has 16k ROM only (easily fits into the FPGA internal RAM), is this interface good enough?
hubersn
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:10 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by hubersn »

slingshot wrote: It seems the built-in IDE in RISC OS (with the 82c711 chip) works only if the FDC is also used from that chip.
Yes, I think this is correct. It is either 1772-and-6551 or 82c710/82c711-all-the-way. If you want to keep the 1772 and support a harddisc out of the box with RISC OS 3.1, you'd need to simulate the MFM/ST506 controller used inside the Archimedes 4xx range, a Hitachi HD63463. However, the possible size of an MFM harddisc was quite limited, I think 56 MB or so?
That means a brand new FDC is required.
I hoped that somewhere in FPGA universe, someone already recreated the 82c710 or something very similar (SMC665...). What does ao486 on MISTer use for I/O?
However I found the Risc Developments IDE interface, which has 16k ROM only (easily fits into the FPGA internal RAM), is this interface good enough?
Any IDE podule you could recreate would be fine, I don't think they differed much technically, most of the difference was the software. I mentioned the ICS IDE podule because it seemed quite common back in the day, and ZIDEFS by John Kortink from here http://www.zeridajh.org/software/zidefs/index.htm is easily available and known-good (it is still used today in ICS podule recreations!). The ZIDEFS ROM is only 8 KB by the way. ZIDEFS supports up to 4 partitions, RISC OS before version 3.6 was limited to 512 MB per partition, I am not sure if the Risc Developments software supported partitioning.

Here is a podule hardware design compatible with ZIDEFS: https://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic ... 16&t=15205

Usually, the ROM on a podule (or more precise: the modules it contains) would be copied by the RISC OS podule loader into the computer's RAM on startup. So you wouldn't need FPGA internal RAM, you'd just treat it as an addition to the RISC OS ROM file??? You'll notice that I have no idea about that FPGA stuff, so I don't know how straightforward any implementation would be...

Have fun
hubersn
slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1838
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by slingshot »

The good thing in IDE is that the computer side is no more than an address decoder, so if one implementation works, it's not hard to switch to other ROM. The original ICS ROM is 32k, how could ZIDEFS work only in 8k?
User avatar
vebxenon
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1034
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:10 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by vebxenon »

slingshot wrote: Upd2.: it works in 15kHz. Go to the display configure app, choose monitor type 0, and choose a new mode (or check automatic mode). Then start the game.
Thanks! :D :D I'm going to test more games. I've seen that PacMania stops the music every some seconds... :shrug:

Just for curiosity, are you using Risc OS 3 rom?
Just a computer and videogame lover :)

- Atari Jr 2600 clone
- Atari 7800 Peritel
- Atari XEGS
- Atari Lynx II
- Atari Jaguar
- MiST Board
slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1838
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by slingshot »

vebxenon wrote:
Just for curiosity, are you using Risc OS 3 rom?
Yes, 3.11 (or similar).
hubersn
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:10 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by hubersn »

slingshot wrote:The original ICS ROM is 32k, how could ZIDEFS work only in 8k?
John Kortink magic assembler coding? I have no idea, would have to look into the disassembly. But it would be not untypical that the 32k ROM is just ready to be burned into a 32k EPROM and in reality at least half-empty. Going into the FS details, a RISC OS FS like ZIDEFS is just a very thin layer around Filecore, it really only implements the hardware access and instantiates as a Filecore client. The simplest FS, RAMFS (also a Filecore client), is less than 2 KB IIRC.

If you intend to implement this IDE stuff, I would be very interested to help you with any necessary testing.

Have fun
hubersn
slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1838
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by slingshot »

hubersn wrote: But it would be not untypical that the 32k ROM is just ready to be burned into a 32k EPROM and in reality at least half-empty.
That's the case with the Risc Development ROM, but not with the ICS.
slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1838
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by slingshot »

Ok, it's done:
https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-bina ... 191102.rbf

I'll write some description about the usage in the Wiki later on, now you can find a CMOS file to configure one IDE interface at boot, and a 512MB .hdf file zipped (formatted, and SparkPlug is installed on it). It can be used in Arculator, too, to install something from non-ADF source.
The .hdf file must be named to archie1.hdf (master) and archie2.hdf (slave). The CMOS file's checksum probably wrong, so it'll boot after some iterations of the yellow LED flashing.
Needs a firmware update!
Gehstock
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:18 pm
Location: EastGermany

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by Gehstock »

Thank you for all your Work.
hubersn
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:10 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by hubersn »

slingshot wrote:Ok, it's done:
https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-bina ... 191102.rbf

I'll write some description about the usage in the Wiki later on, now you can find a CMOS file to configure one IDE interface at boot, and a 512MB .hdf file zipped (formatted, and SparkPlug is installed on it). It can be used in Arculator, too, to install something from non-ADF source.
The .hdf file must be named to archie1.hdf (master) and archie2.hdf (slave). The CMOS file's checksum probably wrong, so it'll boot after some iterations of the yellow LED flashing.
Needs a firmware update!
Ohhhh, many many thanks. Going to test it ASAP.

Thanks
hubersn
User avatar
DrOG
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 732
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:23 pm
Location: Gyula, Hungary

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by DrOG »

Thank you!
DanyPPC
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 892
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:02 am

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by DanyPPC »

Many Thanks Slingshot.
User avatar
vebxenon
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1034
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:10 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by vebxenon »

slingshot wrote:Ok, it's done:
https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-bina ... 191102.rbf

I'll write some description about the usage in the Wiki later on, now you can find a CMOS file to configure one IDE interface at boot, and a 512MB .hdf file zipped (formatted, and SparkPlug is installed on it). It can be used in Arculator, too, to install something from non-ADF source.
The .hdf file must be named to archie1.hdf (master) and archie2.hdf (slave). The CMOS file's checksum probably wrong, so it'll boot after some iterations of the yellow LED flashing.
Needs a firmware update!
Great!! :cheers:
Just a computer and videogame lover :)

- Atari Jr 2600 clone
- Atari 7800 Peritel
- Atari XEGS
- Atari Lynx II
- Atari Jaguar
- MiST Board
User avatar
vebxenon
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1034
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:10 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by vebxenon »

Just tested new core. Still issues with music in PacMania. Music sounds now incomplete and stops every few seconds, then restarts. :shrug:
Just a computer and videogame lover :)

- Atari Jr 2600 clone
- Atari 7800 Peritel
- Atari XEGS
- Atari Lynx II
- Atari Jaguar
- MiST Board
slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1838
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by slingshot »

vebxenon wrote:Just tested new core. Still issues with music in PacMania. Music sounds now incomplete and stops every few seconds, then restarts. :shrug:
Probably needs 24 MHz VIDC clock. Tried it on TV mode?
slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1838
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by slingshot »

hubersn wrote:
Ohhhh, many many thanks. Going to test it ASAP.

Thanks
hubersn
Do you have an idea is it possible to upgrade Wimp to 3.80? According to http://starfighter.acornarcade.com/ it's in the UniBoot package, but even I unpacked one from the riscos site, I don't think it was successful. At least SF3000 didn't start.
desUBIKado
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 178
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:49 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by desUBIKado »

Slingshot thank you very much for this awesome update. It's fantastic that hard drives work on Archie core now.

I've made an archie1.hdf file ( https://mega.nz/#!314XQLSI!Bgsxl-QOox9y ... MAPVqfXtvk ) with content of this Acorn Archimedes disk image: https://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14577

Regards.
hubersn
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:10 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by hubersn »

slingshot wrote: Do you have an idea is it possible to upgrade Wimp to 3.80? According to http://starfighter.acornarcade.com/ it's in the UniBoot package, but even I unpacked one from the riscos site, I don't think it was successful. At least SF3000 didn't start.
I will have a go. UniBoot contains WIMP 3.98 (which is basically what RISC OS 3.8 would have been). However, the boot sequence needs to executed properly to correctly install all the necessary modules, sometimes even in the right order. And it consumes quite a bit of memory, so should really be an optional thing. The Toolbox stuff (UniBoot was originally done by Acorn to support their Browser and Java, and both needed the Toolbox) is quite memory hungry.

I haven't tried - does Shift-Boot work with the core?

But I am actually surprised that Star Fighter 3000 itself needs the "Nested WIMP" at all. All the tools surrounding it - OK, because they are newer developments. But the original Star Fighter 3000 ran on plain RISC OS 3.1, and it would surprise me if that has changed.

Have fun
hubersn
slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1838
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by slingshot »

hubersn wrote: I haven't tried - does Shift-Boot work with the core?

But I am actually surprised that Star Fighter 3000 itself needs the "Nested WIMP" at all. All the tools surrounding it - OK, because they are newer developments. But the original Star Fighter 3000 ran on plain RISC OS 3.1, and it would surprise me if that has changed.

Have fun
hubersn
Yeah, it's required. Stated in the readme, and when starting the game. Ctrl-Break reboots the machine (if it is the equivalent of Shift-Boot?), but I'm not sure is it really a hard reset. E.g. the IDE doesn't recognize the second drive even if I *Configure it. It only recognizes when boots cold with the correct CMOS content.
hubersn
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:10 pm

Re: Acorn Archimedes

Post by hubersn »

slingshot wrote:
hubersn wrote: I haven't tried - does Shift-Boot work with the core?

But I am actually surprised that Star Fighter 3000 itself needs the "Nested WIMP" at all. All the tools surrounding it - OK, because they are newer developments. But the original Star Fighter 3000 ran on plain RISC OS 3.1, and it would surprise me if that has changed.

Have fun
hubersn
Yeah, it's required. Stated in the readme, and when starting the game.
OK, now I have read the ReadMe, I understand :-)

Adding the windowed mode needed probably a bugfixed WindowManager.

And it needs the Toolbox modules also. So a true full UniBoot is needed. I'll do a proper HD image with all bells and whistles.
Ctrl-Break reboots the machine (if it is the equivalent of Shift-Boot?), but I'm not sure is it really a hard reset. E.g. the IDE doesn't recognize the second drive even if I *Configure it. It only recognizes when boots cold with the correct CMOS content.
A real Ctrl-Break on a real machine respects all changed CMOS settings, so there must be something wrong. ISTR that there were problems with the Amber core and doing a true reset, don't remember the details (and surely haven't understood them!). I am not aware that Ctrl-Break-Boot does anything different compared to pressing the reset button on a real machine.

Shift-Boot does a "reverse" operation of the configured Boot/NoBoot state. If CMOS says "Boot", then a Shift-Boot does not boot. If CMOS says "NoBoot", a Shift-Boot boots.

Have fun
hubersn
Post Reply

Return to “MiST”