680x0 cores

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ijor
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by ijor »

Sorgelig wrote:Sure, there were few games depending on CPU cycle accuracy. But it's more marginal than usual. Amiga still needs 020 more than cycle accuracy.
No doubts. That was never disputed. I understand Mike already has a fully working 020 core.
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by PurpleMelbourne »

What the Amiga needs is the fastest CPU possible.

So what is the fastest core apart from the 68080?
Does it have a name?

Is the 68060 more cycle accurate than the 68080?
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by Sorgelig »

68080 is fictional cpu exists only in FPGA.
68060 is latest from 68K series. It's real and fastest 68K CPU.
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by PurpleMelbourne »

Thanks for your opinion, but none of that answered any of my questions.

So if I add a fictional CPU to an FPGA, what is the fastest fictional CPU that I can use to so that my fictional Amiga will perform faster than if it were to use the other fictional CPU's on the FPGA? :P
(Fictional Programmable Gate Array?)

As I was perhaps not clear enough last time.

What is the fastest 68k family core that I can use? What is it called? Which chip does it simulate?
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by ijor »

PurpleMelbourne wrote:Thanks for your opinion, but none of that answered any of my questions.

So if I add a fictional CPU to an FPGA, what is the fastest fictional CPU that I can use to so that my fictional Amiga will perform faster than if it were to use the other fictional CPU's on the FPGA? :P
(Fictional Programmable Gate Array?)

As I was perhaps not clear enough last time.

What is the fastest 68k family core that I can use? What is it called? Which chip does it simulate?
Man, you are tempting your luck with that kind of irony and being unfriendly. I suggest you go ask those questions somewhere else.
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by ex68k »

ijor wrote: Man, you are tempting your luck with that kind of irony and being unfriendly. I suggest you go ask those questions somewhere else.
@PurpleMelbourne: there is actually a forum for you, look for the "makers" of the 68080.
They will explain to you in great detail, that the "fictional" 68080 is even more cycle exact than the original ;-)
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by Grabulosaure »

The fastest fictional 68K is an intel i9 or AMD Ryzen.
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by orange808 »

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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by ijor »

PurpleMelbourne wrote:I hope you are being ironic in your response. In which case touche :P Otherwise...
I was very serious.
Is this a forum which welcomes people other than the board owner or not?
We welcome anybody that respects the others and others works. You did not. And if you don't see why, I am sorry but I am not going to give lessons on how being respectful. Check all your posts in this thread and try hard and you might understand.

You were already warned. Your post was moved somewhere else.
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by BBond007 »

PurpleMelbourne wrote: I want brute force speed. However I'm also not wanting to use a PC. By the sounds of it MiniMig is quite limited and unable to use a faster CPU core.
15 years ago I was using a Warp Engine 040 in my A4000, and I'd like something faster today for CPU intensive applications like Vista, Mand2000 or just web browsing an semi acceptable speeds.
First off, MiSTer Minimig speed wise is 50% FASTER than the 2nd fastest Amiga Commodore ever created --> the Amiga 4000/030

If you are looking for (unnatural) "brute force speed" while "not wanting to use a PC" then I would suggest a Raspberry PI running Amibian. It will run ports like Metal Slug and OpenBOR, ScummVM and NetSurf perfectly - which are even slow on my A1200/Blizzard1260-50mhz.

After you get bored or frustrated trying to browse the web with NetSurf, you'll have only spent $35 or whatever...
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by PurpleMelbourne »

Perhaps no one can match an Apollo Vampire for speed. But if anyone had a core that did 060 speed then you could hardly complain about it being slow. Maybe not fast enough for some things, but still be really good to be doing that with an FPGA.

I've certainly spent a lot more than $35 so far on sample FPGA parts before starting on PCB. :o
5CEFA9F23I7N is a decent speed Altera chip.
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by Poobah »

PurpleMelbourne wrote: 5CEFA9F23I7N is a decent speed Altera chip.
FPGA chips don't really have speeds.
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by PurpleMelbourne »

Poobah wrote:FPGA chips don't really have speeds.
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/ ... _51001.pdf

If you go to page 6 you will see the different speed grades that Intel are prepared to sell you. The Cyclone V comes in speed grades of 6, 7 and 8. I think that is a measure of flip flop speed in nano seconds.

If you are doing a controller interface then on a slower chip you will not be able to crank it up so fast. This also comes into it with the built in cores such as memory controllers or PCIe controllers. They don't give very good details on the Cylone, but if you look at the documents for the Stratix they explain a bit about it.
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by Poobah »

FPGA chips come in several "speed grades", but the speed of a given chip is ultimately determined by the core and the clock(s) provided. You select an FPGA based on the requirements of your application. Saying an FPGA is "decent speed" doesn't mean anything.
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by PurpleMelbourne »

I'm fairly new to FPGA's so I'd love to learn a bit more. :coffe:

:?: When would you choose to use a more expensive FPGA like a Kintex instead of a Spartan, or an Arria instead of a Cyclone if not on the basis of speed?

I know with the Arria that you can get lots of built in trancievers so you could for example in theory build your own PC north bridge chip making use of the 36 transcievers capable of 6.144Gps (36 x 6.144Gbps) each to form a very high speed memory controller, bridge to CPU and all the other things. But are you saying that if you are not using those specialised features the lower FPGA lacks that the Cyclone would not be any slower than the Arria running the same core?

My understanding of FPGA's was they are like hard drives in that they have two dimensions of size and speed plus some special features like built in PCIe, memory controllers sort of being the equivalent if a HD has NCQ or hot swap which might be a feature that can boost performance of your design.

Engineers have quoted me how fast they can run a 6502 core on one FPGA versus how much faster they can run it on another one. FPGA seem very complex, but with great things we can do with them when more of us learn the wizardry of them :cheers:
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by ex68k »

PurpleMelbourne wrote:I'm fairly new to FPGA's so I'd love to learn a bit more. :coffe:
:?: When would you choose to use a more expensive FPGA like a Kintex instead of a Spartan, or an Arria instead of a Cyclone if not on the basis of speed?
OK, I'll try again. What you should do:
a.) buy a cheap FPGA Eval board.
b.) Put it in a drawer, and don't touch it again.
c.) Install the FPGA software, and specially the simulator part.
d.) start doing the small examples(which could use you eval board), and study what they are doing, how they actually get implemented in the FPGA.
e.) do d.) few more times
f.) you probably now got a feeling, what really happens here.
g.) study the clock & timing reports. drink a lot of coffee, and study them again.
h.) you now could have an idea, how your project could be implemented

"don't show up at driving school with a sports car" ...
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by MasterOfGizmo »

You can probably go pretty fast with an FPGA based 68k if you spend plenty of time. But have a look at your own use case. You want to run two programs and "surf the web". I am pretty sure this wouldn't entertain you very long. So you are basically asking someone to spend thousands of hours of work for a few minutes of insane amiga speed fun.

Most people here see more benefit spending the same time building the perfect replica of the dying old machines. And "cycle exact" basically means nothing else than "perfect replica". It's meant to behave 100% identical, also from a performance point of view. Accurate on all signals in all situations down to few nanoseconds. Every single CPU clock cycle (and there are millions of them per second) does exactly what it does on the real thing. Nothing happens earlier, nothing happens later. It all happens at the exact same cycle. Thus "cycle exact".

You are basically asking a few guys perfectly restoring some very aged motorcycle how fast it could go if you'd run it on nitro.

There are others that love raw speed and spend their time doing that. The vampire guys are some of them. You should really consider contacting them. Here you are just asking the wrong group of people.
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by ex68k »

MasterOfGizmo wrote: You are basically asking a few guys perfectly restoring some very aged motorcycle how fast it could go if you'd run it on nitro.
I LOVE that one ! :thumbs:
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by apolkosnik »

What happened with m68k core? Is it available on github? Thanks!
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Re: 680x0 cores

Post by kolla »

apolkosnik wrote:What happened with m68k core? Is it available on github? Thanks!
Soon - keep an eye (watch) on this https://github.com/FPGAArcade
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