STOS Dungeon Crawling

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Encolpius
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by Encolpius »

NGF wrote:
I have also considered real time but it feels like it's one upper level of difficulty to code/complexity to the game so I might skip it and make it more like the Elvira games.

Ok, you have the exact solution to the viewpoint as I have with alot of IF's. As long as it works I guess.. But I can't escape the feeling that it should be a easier/shorter way to calculate view :shrug:

About the graphical assets, why not "borrow" some graphics from Eye of the beholder / DM as a start and then edit them beyond recognition for your own needs?

I wish you good luck with the game! :cheers:
Believe me, I've considered asset flipping. Unfortunately my viewpoint is way bigger than EOB, DM, Captive, Knightmare, Walls of Illusion, Ishar, etc. Also my perspective is different if you look at it; the "camera" is equidistant from floor and ceiling. Also also, none of the above have murderous antelopes with horns and tusks, soldier ants with chitin spears, or manticores. (I don't want boring monsters such as orcs, goblins, undead, etc.)

And there must be an easier way to calculate it, I'm sure, however, brute forcing seems to work for now.

Don't knock Elvira / Waxworks. They're good games. I'm told that they actually started with a graphical MUD engine and basically bashed it until it fit their purposes. I think you could probably do the same in STOS no problem. Compact each location image together with its mask (a secondary image that might include all variants such as objects taken / not taken, etc.) and a directory of where each mask element goes, a room description, exits and where they go to, and examine descriptions into a single .MBS file, then load it in, BLIT everything into place, wait for player input, and you've probably got something a bit like the Legend Interactive adventure games on PC (Companions of Xanth, Spellcasting series, Death Gate, Shannara, etc.)

I believe one of our number in the Facebook group has also worked out how to do a resolution split as well, so you can have low res to show the image in colour and med res to make the text less chunky at the bottom...
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by Encolpius »

Further update!

Firstly, I've produced a side program that is used to grab the various frames of animation for each monster and compact them, together with said monster's statblock, into a single file. This is attached.

Secondly, I'm currently working on locked doors. This is a lot harder than it sounds. Basically, door locks will be on the door frames where the button or pull chain is now. Logically, they simply give a message saying "This door is locked" unless the player has in hand the correct key type, in which case the player's hand is emptied and the door opened. Because any lock type can be in any dungeon environment, rather than blit the lock onto the frame which would require me to use valuable screen space that could be used for larger environmental features, I'm storing the lock graphics in the sprite bank and will TRAP them into view when the game detects that a locked door is visible. This may be slightly slower than blitting it but it can be pixel perfect as opposed to being reliant on 16 pixel boundaries.

Thirdly, I've compacted into the actual program file the splash screens, the interface, and the character generation screen, to save on disk space. It's also faster to decompact them than to load them from disk each time, esp. from floppies.
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MM41
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by MM41 »

Encolpius can you put an example of MBK monsters to see how work of this new program :) ,
Can we see the monster animation with ?
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NGF
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by NGF »

That tool will help out greatly if more games and scenarios is made with the WOL engine :)
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Encolpius
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by Encolpius »

NGF wrote:That tool will help out greatly if more games and scenarios is made with the WOL engine :)
It would indeed; I am thinking maybe a roguelike / roguelite of some sort using vast amounts of the WOL code. But that's further down the line.

I'm also working on a map editor as well...
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NGF
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by NGF »

Will the map be stored in an array or in some text file?
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by Encolpius »

Currently, the map is in a .CSV file in plaintext. This is so I can tweak it easily using Notepad to test various new features as added. When the editor appears, however, I'll convert it to a big heaping mass of binary data to keep those load times down. Dump it straight into the map array. It's starting to get to the point at which I'm forgetting what each number actually means on the map grid...
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by Encolpius »

Time for a new build to be posted. I've now implemented wall signs and locks and keys. The former are 100% there. The latter about 90%, I just need to make them display on side walls properly. Included is both an executable and the source code. You will need an STE if you are running it on a real machine because I've started moving the drawing routines over to the blitter (though not all of them are there on account of transparencies are playing up.)
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by MM41 »

i have just testing the new first floor :D
little bug report:
the green push button disapear when pushing ?, but if you not move the mouse pointer on the wall and push,
the grid down and the green button reapaer!
Some new items (gold lock) are not seen in front view when they are at left or right.

So i'm left to make the new map !
Thanks Enclopius :D
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by Encolpius »

Hmmm, probably a typo somewhere. Also, I am aware of the lock refusing to draw on the side walls; I'll investigate it. There is also a bug where if you unlock a door and change to another level, it things certain locks are already open. I have fixed that by making sure I zero all the lock status variables when changing levels. (Of course, in the final build it will of course save to a temporary file the state of each level as you change.)

I'm also shortly implementing teleports. You'll know these when you see them. And as a side effect of same, the foundations of the timing system, even if it is just to make sure they're animated properly.
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by Encolpius »

Hello again everyone. The map editor tool is now in a fit state to see the light of day. It will have things added to it as and when I implement them, however, starting with WOL 0.56 (the next version in line) the new map format produced by this will be adopted. As will decorative tiles, slippery tiles, and slog zones.

I'd be interested to see what people put together with this, if anything. Feel free to post your creations and so forth.

Incidentally, does the person who created Ice Packer frequent these fora? Because I want to thank him for an excellent piece of kit. Shrank the executable for this mapper from 120K to 51K and still preserved all its functionality. I shall be putting all future versions of WOL through it in future (current builds hit 160K+ for the executable when compiled...)
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by Playmobil »

Someone can put a screenshot of this game ?
Encolpius
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by Encolpius »

Hello everyone. I had an e-mail from a Manu asking whether this was dead. It is not. However it's stalled because I keep flitting from one thing to another to another. The biggest stalling factor is the monster graphics. I have a couple other things in STOS going on as well and work has been rather busy this year so far. I also lost the login to this place in the summer when I moved over from Firefox to Brave as my browser and it didn't import all my logins for some reason. But here I am now.

Back in May I posted the latest build on the Facebook group - 0.58. It features the ability to throw things (which was more complex that you might think) and some really rather spiffy Quartet music that I wrote myself, as well as a tighter blitter handling routine.

Attached the zip of that build.

The next build will be 0.60 which will feature monsters (still to come) and damage to the player (which I have actually already implemented, along with a death screen.)
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MM41
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by MM41 »

Happy to see than the project still forward, i'm going to power up the ST to try the 0.58 :D
Thank you Encolpius :cheers:
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dma
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by dma »

Happy to read that your project isn't stopped as well. :)
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by Encolpius »

Indeed it's not. It's the furthest along of my STE game projects right now to be fair. (Valkyrie has run into a standstill with my being utterly bored of drawing incremental pixel art frames as it is the work of ants, and Totally Unofficial Isometric Adventure Game has been stymied by my artistic inabilities. Tonya Harding's Pro Skater hasn't even got off the drawing board yet, thankfully; there's no way I could pixelise sufficient frames of a triple axel with double toe loop and have it look like anything other than a grub in a fit.)

Today I've been expanding the mapper tool so I can get some test fodder for monster handling routines. Basically, there is a maximum of 4 monster types per level which means potentially up to 800K RAM can be consumed on their frames altogether though monsters 3 or 4 would more than likely be reserved for bosses.
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dma
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by dma »

Ah, that skating game is probably in the vein of GBA THPS? :)

3D modeling of characters and scenery can help as base elements for pixeling.
But then, it's also something to learn. Though probably easier to get in (especially just to get basic "draft" rendering) than complete character pixeling from scratch in all positions.
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by Encolpius »

dma wrote:Ah, that skating game is probably in the vein of GBA THPS? :)

3D modeling of characters and scenery can help as base elements for pixeling.
But then, it's also something to learn. Though probably easier to get in (especially just to get basic "draft" rendering) than complete character pixeling from scratch in all positions.
Ahahahahahahaha, sort of. It'd be like head to head THPS on ice, where you get points for successfully doing leaps and spins and salchows but also for sabotaging or annoying your opponent, i.e. by leaping over them or drive-by teabagging them when they fall or showering them with ice from a sudden stop or, of course, smacking them with a telescopic baton. I used to have Poser on the PC in the 1990s so if I can find the disks for that it could be a base for the frames for same. Pose a blank figure, turn the camera to oblique or whatever projection and then draw over it. A bit cheaty, yes, but easier than scratch-building.

Pity I can't do the same for WOL monsters because I have no idea how to 3D model.
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by Encolpius »

This isn't dead, just so you know. I've had a lot on my plate but this is version 0.62. Now featuring monsters that move around and behave in different ways, a slick new interface, and some wall sets that actually look like they might finally.

You will need more than 1 MB to run this. I've checked. You'll also need an STE; I'm using the blitter and DMA stereo sound.

Feel free to comment as much or as little as you want here. I've included my STOS source so people can sneer at my hacky coding and also the assembler source of my custom blitter library. Which is even hackier.

EDIT: Design question. Should I include an automap or not? My current thought is to have a switch in settings between "Real Adventurer" mode, which has no automap, and "Quiche Eater" mode, which does. It wouldn't take up a massive amount of memory in the grand scheme of things. Just a single-bitplane set of map symbols and a grid which flags which squares have been explored or not.
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by NGF »

Those are some scary snakes :)
I found the ruby key but it didn't open the R lock, should it open it? Also the monsters can overlap the door when I try to crush them in the door but I'm sure you know it.
Very nice with the snakes wandering around, will you add Dungeon Master like movment so that they move some pixels when standing in front of the player to simulate more lively characters?
Also glad to see chakram as a weapon instead of the usual sword or axe in this type of games!
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by MM41 »

I wanted monsters and i am served :D
move into the dungeon is fast despite all monsters animation :D
the new graphics are very nice

Musics are disturbed when mouse is moved, take and put items are difficult some time (mouse key redundancy ?) :x

@ NGF: the ruby key works at home (stair to cave level behind the door)

For me no automap, i love draw it on paper :)
Bravo Encolpius :cheers:
Last edited by MM41 on Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by Encolpius »

I'm glad people like it.

I'm going to overhaul the objects system soon enough. It's clunky because it relies on STOS sprites. On one hand, I had no choice if I were to have the cursor turn into an icon of the object, but I'm thinking I might want two separate banks, one for the item in hand and the other containing items in the world at each distance. I've worked out how to stack screen$ blocks in a file which can then be loaded right in which is what the monster graphics are stored with.

The music wobbling when the mouse is moved is a side effect of the Quartet player. Quartet provides superior sounding music (possibly on par with the GUS on PC if you are willing to use high enough quality patches) but takes up lots of CPU time, even when sent to the DMA. It's also memory hungry.

Next up - chests, decorative items, and a reworked inventory screen (I've decided that 8 item slots is not enough) and possibly a couple new wallsets and monsters...
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by Eero Tamminen »

Encolpius wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:08 pm Indeed it's not. It's the furthest along of my STE game projects right now to be fair. (Valkyrie has run into a standstill with my being utterly bored of drawing incremental pixel art frames as it is the work of ants, and Totally Unofficial Isometric Adventure Game has been stymied by my artistic inabilities. Tonya Harding's Pro Skater hasn't even got off the drawing board yet, thankfully; there's no way I could pixelise sufficient frames of a triple axel with double toe loop and have it look like anything other than a grub in a fit.)
Suggestion: do the game as monochrome. While you lose all the colors, you get 2x more pixels in both directions for details. Maybe with a suitable filtering, you could convert most graphics from skating videos, so that they need only minimal hand editing after conversion?
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by Encolpius »

MM41 wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:57 am I wanted monsters and i am served :D
move into the dungeon is fast despite all monsters animation :D
the new graphics are very nice

Musics are disturbed when mouse is moved, take and put items are difficult some time (mouse key redundancy ?) :x

@ NGF: the ruby key works at home (stair to cave level behind the door)

For me no automap, i love draw it on paper :)
Bravo Encolpius :cheers:
I did a survey on a dungeon crawlers fan group on Faceache and it was about 50/50 real dungeoneers to quiche eaters. I'll insert one but have the ability to turn it off in settings for those who want a proper old school experience.

EDIT: Re chakrams, I wanted to get some slightly more unusual weapons. I thought the standard thrown weapon would be a knife but that's boring, so I made it a shuriken. But that also is boring, so you have a chakram. This dovetails with my plans to include a Naga as an enemy type (being a five-headed snek from that neck of the woods) and which could wield a sword in one hand and a chakram in the other as a ranged weapon, as well as a spellcasting variant.

The Chakram of Dysnomia is a nod to one of the more famous fictional exponents of that particular weapon. I'm planning to have certain items that have hard-coded special rules and that is to be one of them. The idea is that it bounces off things randomly. There will be a slightly more mundane Chakram of Returning which is a bit like the Spiritual Hammer spell in EOB3.

There are longswords and axes, but I've also included a falchion and a raven's beak to date, and I'm thinking a rapier as well. No katanas though, they are too common these days. Might also include an assegai as well.
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Re: STOS Dungeon Crawling

Post by NGF »

Maybe instead of a map you could have an on screen compass showing the orientation.
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