CT60 freezing with Id Games

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Rustynutt
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by Rustynutt »

Rustynutt wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:11 pm Can confirm running iMPACT 14.7 (nt64)
P.20 13 10 13
On WIN 7 64 bit.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by wongck »

DarkLord wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 3:21 pm Just gotta say, I can't run my CT60 without NVDI.

If I do, I get corrupted graphics all over the place.

Really nasty.

Run NVDI - perfect.
This is weird.... I do run my CT63 plain TOS without NVDI and I get perfect medium rez (with huge icons and text on my LCD).
Normally this is when I need to do some maintenance on my boot selector, otherwise I am using MiNT on every other time.
No corruption on graphics what so ever in plain TOS.

OK, mine are CT63 may be having some newer hardware on it. So I should not add to the confusion.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by wongck »

Rustynutt wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:11 pm Can confirm running iMPACT 14.7 (nt64)
P.20 13 10 13
On WIN 64 bit.
I used on my Win10 64bits recently (in Atari terms like 2 years back or so).
There is a hack to make it work on W10, I emailed it to Czuba as well.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/fpga/guid ... n3jsjqh713

Luckily after all these years, this information is still available online.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by atari1975 »

Ok, thanks a lot for everyone's feedback!

First of all, the cut pin 9 was purely stupidity from my side (blame all this flow of info going on in my mind right now), it is described in Rodolphe's page and of course mpattonm confirmed it with the schematics.

Then, I put back the ATX PSU (that I had took out for the CT60) to my Win XP PC and installed the xilinx software there. Now everything worked and I did manage to go through all the guide and reflashing both ABE and SDR (to V5M and V5E respectively). The results are better than before but still not 100% there:

1. Hitting CANCEL after accessing the floppy with an empty floppy in CT60 mode doesn't crash the falcon anymore :cheers:
2. Falcamp without NVDI playing an mp3 in a loop lasts now about 3 times longer but eventually freezes. Still plays without issues with NVDI installed.
3. Copying files to/from netusbee still crashes the falcon :cry:
4. Running the demo of Doom now seems way more stable... However eventually I get the freeze again... :cry: (but the little I have been running it, it freezes much later than before)

I think tomorrow I might try with the latest ABE and SDR jeds and if it is worse I will revert back to the versions I have now.
I still have the clock patch being shipped to me...
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by DarkLord »

wongck wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 5:06 am
This is weird.... I do run my CT63 plain TOS without NVDI and I get perfect medium rez (with huge icons and text on my LCD).
Normally this is when I need to do some maintenance on my boot selector, otherwise I am using MiNT on every other time.
No corruption on graphics what so ever in plain TOS.

OK, mine are CT63 may be having some newer hardware on it. So I should not add to the confusion.
Hey Wong! How's it going? :)

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I've got one of the first batch CT60's and from
what posts I've seen, it's the newer CT63's and "e" that seem to be fine without NVDI.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by Rustynutt »

Darklord, are you using V5 or V7 of the SDR/ABE files? I've flashed all 3 versions with V7.
I don't know the difference between them. Rodolphe mentions all cards "should" be upgraded in his guide.
Also, AFAIK, those files are the same since released, even on the e, difference being the FPGA differs, from reading here.
As far as the NVDI question, have no clue. For me, it's likely a carry over habit from the Mighty Sonic and Nemesis 48mhz days :)
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by wongck »

DarkLord wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:04 pm Hey Wong! How's it going? :)
I am fine here, thanks.... hope everything is fine for you too.
Glad that US is now leading the way in vaccination.

I should not say med rez in my Falc, it should be 640x480 ( I even ran Videl Inside to 800x600.)
I guess that med rez thing likely carried over from using my ST. :mrgreen:
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by atari1975 »

Today I programmed my xilinx chips with the V7 jeds:

1. Hitting CANCEL after accessing the floppy with an empty floppy in CT60 mode doesn't crash the falcon, same with V5
2. Falcamp without NVDI playing an mp3 in a loop lasts now about the same as before I programmed V7 and eventually freezes. Still plays without issues with NVDI installed. So slightly worse than V5, but still the same as with V5 with NVDI installed.
3. Netusbee experience is much worse: Copying files to/from netusbee still crashes the falcon but on top of that if I open a USB partition and do something with it that involves more than 5-6 clicks on the window the whole GUI slows down, files cannot be sellected etc... Difficult to explain the details but definitely much worse than with V5
4. Running the demo of Doom is pretty much the same as with V5 but now sometimes I see distortion in the pixels (mostly towards the center of the vertical lines of the screen. Of course eventually I get the freeze again...

I also played a bit with adding 5S delay in the caches. Doom ran considerably slower (quite frankly not playable even considerably reducing the screen area) but doesn't freeze. NetUSB however crashes, which makes me think that
it is not the caches but the bus (it is still crashing with netusbee, even if I copy files to/from the floppy) but very much interested to hear opinions.

For now I am now I plan to get any last feedback from you and I will re-flash my CT60 to V5 and leave it like this until the clock patch arrives. It will take a while I guess, it is coming from Europe :-(
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by Rustynutt »

You're in the US?
Ahh, west coast. I'm in Oregon.
I have both Exxos and Centuriontech buffer boards spare.
Actually, stuff from both arrive pretty quick.
Until you fit the clock patch, may as well de-yellow your case :)
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by atari1975 »

Rustnutt, we have been in touch in the past. I will PM you to refresh your memory :D

Mikro: I made a thought... Is there an argument maybe in Doom (or any other ports) that disables the sound (and hence the access to the DSP) completely. I suppose turning down the sound won't stop the access just will lower the volume(?). I think it will be a good data point...
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by Rustynutt »

Hehe, don't think I've ever cleared my mailbox. Yes, NetUSBee.
And some repair work AIRC.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by DarkLord »

wongck wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 12:13 am
I am fine here, thanks.... hope everything is fine for you too.
Glad that US is now leading the way in vaccination.

I should not say med rez in my Falc, it should be 640x480 ( I even ran Videl Inside to 800x600.)
I guess that med rez thing likely carried over from using my ST. :mrgreen:
Yeah, the vaccinations are coming along. As a Respiratory Therapist I had both my shots back in the middle
of January of this year.

Today it was announced by the CDC that if you've had your vaccinations you can go
most places without a mask! 8O

Understood about ST resolutions - ST standard stuff has probably made it into our DNA by now. :)
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by mikro »

atari1975 wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 3:38 pmMikro: I made a thought... Is there an argument maybe in Doom (or any other ports) that disables the sound (and hence the access to the DSP) completely. I suppose turning down the sound won't stop the access just will lower the volume(?). I think it will be a good data point...
Yes, there is "-audio off" parameter for doom: http://pmandin.atari.org/en/index.php?p ... -game-doom however that (I guess) disables only DMA, DSP is not used at all (what can be advantageous for you in this case).

However judging from the fact that FalcAMP + NVDI works a treat for you I would say that the problem can be much deeper (blitter/bus timing etc). It certainly doesn't sound like a typical CT60 "quirk".

I would say a good clock patch installation (and ideally trying it out with another CPU/CT60) is your best hope to solve this.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by atari1975 »

Yep... I am looking forward to that clock patch from Centurion Tech...

Doom crashed even with -audio off... Hopefully it is bus related issue that I cannot use NetUSBee without crash and the freeze of ID games and the patch will fix it. I hope it is not the FPU (well... I cannot see any relationship between FPU and Cartridge/NetUSBee but I dread the thought the Cartidge/NetUSBee and the ID games crashing are not the same bus issue)...

Well... Nothing to do other than wait for the clock patch right now I suppose...

Thanks for all the support so far Atari community!
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by Rustynutt »

Can send you one in the mail if you"re in a hurry. Send the one you get back.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by atari1975 »

Rustynutt wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 12:52 am Can send you one in the mail if you"re in a hurry. Send the one you get back.
You know... I cannot say no... I'd love to install one asap, because if it is not the clock patch it must be the 68060 on the ct60... I will IM you.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by atari1975 »

Ok... I should have rustynut's patch in my hands tomorrow (thank you rustynut) so I removed the motherboard from the case. I don't see any other mods but I have close to zero experience with Falcons. Please have a look and let me know if you don't like anything. I plan to install the patch tomorrow. It is a Centurion patch.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by Rustynutt »

Covered it all in a message.
That machine had the clock patch reversed as per Rodolphe's initial instructions. It also has a resistor mod on the SDMA.
I'm not sure on the resistor mod though with the stock bus speed. I've tested on a Falcon a few CT's without it and they seemed to work well.
I'd leave it first test.
If no workie, snip it and test again.
If still no workie, maybe the capacitor mod is the way to go.
Noticed C208 is removed. From what I've read, that's correct.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by atari1975 »

Ok, I'd like to give an update as many things happend:

First of all thank you rustynutt for all the PM exchanges and ideas during the last week!

I received rustynutt's patch and applied it on the motherboard. Little improvement if any... I also tried different images for ABE and SDR and also disconnected the resistor to the clock of the SDMA.

At some point I realized that quite so often Doom would not freeze but exit complaining that it couldn't load a texture or something like that. I also noticed that the hard drive led would light up at random points (I suppose caching to the drive / loading graphics etc). So I tried different CFs (Compact Flash drives) and then I thought of using an old 2.5 ide drive. To my amazement I could now copy to/from netusbee AND doom stopped freezing! The drive I used shows 3.2mb/s at CT60 boot, where the CFs would show 5.5mb/s.

So a slower hard drive did the job. However I experimented a bit more with another old IDE hard drive that reports 2.5mb/s at boot and I see crashes again... In fact doom doesn't seem to start up. I need to play more with it.

From what I can tell the "right" hard disk brings some balance to the accelerated bus, but I cannot put my finger on what exactly, and more importantly: what do I do if the drive that works right now dies? I can live with this setup, but I would really like to make it a bit better. I tried a few settings with the hddriver (v11.01) but it made things worse, so I am back to the defaults.

Any thoughts anybody?
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by sety »

atari1975 wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 2:08 am From what I can tell the "right" hard disk brings some balance to the accelerated bus, but I cannot put my finger on what exactly, and more importantly: what do I do if the drive that works right now dies? I can live with this setup, but I would really like to make it a bit better. I tried a few settings with the hddriver (v11.01) but it made things worse, so I am back to the defaults.
Forgive me if this is OT, I haven't read the full thread, but are you getting any disk corruption when running ct60 with accelerated bus? Ever since my old Conner drive died and I had to replace it with more modern drives I get massive disk corruption whenever I run the bus at 25Mhz. I've stopped using it for this reason. Would love to find a solution.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by atari1975 »

sety wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 2:41 am Forgive me if this is OT, I haven't read the full thread, but are you getting any disk corruption when running ct60 with accelerated bus? Ever since my old Conner drive died and I had to replace it with more modern drives I get massive disk corruption whenever I run the bus at 25Mhz. I've stopped using it for this reason. Would love to find a solution.
I would be really surprised if you had read the thread, it's huge!

No, I haven't had any corruption. My issue was that copying from netusbee stick to hard drive and the other way around would result in a crash (but no data corruption, or at least I haven't looked for data corruptions specifically yet).
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by stormy »

- Are you 100% sure your machine is stable without the ct60 installed? Best test is running BadmooD. As it heavily taxes the Falcon including DSP.

Troubleshooting is about starting from the foundation and working up. Make sure you're doing this:
- Use a fresh CF card partitioned with a good driver
- No accessories
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by atari1975 »

stormy wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 8:25 am - Are you 100% sure your machine is stable without the ct60 installed? Best test is running BadmooD. As it heavily taxes the Falcon including DSP.
By BadmooD you mean this doom port, right? http://www.leonik.net/dml/sec_bm.py
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by joska »

atari1975 wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 2:08 am So I tried different CFs (Compact Flash drives) and then I thought of using an old 2.5 ide drive.
CF-cards is probably the worst IDE drive in a Falcon. Some works fine, some not at all and most of them produce odd and vague problems. Stick with the IDE drive that you now know works. I can also recommend an IDE<->SD adapter, I've been using these in all my IDE-equipped Ataris for years without any problems.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by atari1975 »

joska wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 4:09 pm CF-cards is probably the worst IDE drive in a Falcon. Some works fine, some not at all and most of them produce odd and vague problems. Stick with the IDE drive that you now know works. I can also recommend an IDE<->SD adapter, I've been using these in all my IDE-equipped Ataris for years without any problems.
Yep... I have also tried ide2sd cards. The only one that seems stable is that hitachi 1gb hard drive. I really would like to find a bigger one that works so ordered 3 cheap ones today hoping at least one of them will also be stable. Also my heart skips a beat every time I hear that drive making a noise... 8O
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