CT60 freezing with Id Games

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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by atari1975 »

mikro wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 7:08 am No, that's not the part of PCB where clock patch is applied. It's usually located near the GALs, close to the bottom of the PCB.
Hmm. I thought the patch involves removal of R222, R221 and R216 (and a capacitor at the bottom of the PCB), all resistors are shown in the picture. Am I missing something? Or maybe the orientation of the picture doesn't help? I had the camera at the top side of the motherboard facing the lower. This part I am showing is between the expansion slot where the CT60 sits and the GALs at the lower part of the PCB.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by mikro »

Well, ok, if you count the removal as one type of clock patch. :D

Usually you have some inverter IC on top of one of the GALs. But true, wires go to from there to the resistor holes so if you don't have anything there, you surely don't have any clock patch installed.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by atari1975 »

No, I am not really counting the removal of the capacitor as a clock patch and I think neither do you in https://mikrosk.github.io/clockpatch/ (which I believe is one of your blogs - extremely informational for someone like me, thank you once more!): In my previous post I was just showing my motherboard saying that I believe the falcon doesn't have the patch applied.

Anyway, I have some updates:

With falcamp in CT60 mode I cannot play an .mp3 for more then 2.5 minutes, the falcon will freeze (no crash dump, freeze). Very interestingly, if I load nvdi I haven't seen the freeze... I have the mp3 in a loop and it has been going for longer than 1.5h. Also in f030 mode it keeps going (irrespective of nvdi)

So the way I understand it it is a matter of bus (/DMA maybe?) instability, if you disagree please let me know!

For now I purchased the clock patch and a (used) xilinx platform programmer and hoping the carriers will have wings...

If any of you would want to suggest something different please let me know. If not I will get back to this thread when one of the two arrives and I make progress.

Thanks for all the help so far!
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by wongck »

atari1975 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:41 am
Now, reflashing the FPGAs is a bit scary 8O I could brick the CT60, no? Well... I might have to do it... I found two ways...

One described here with the flash60.prg: http://didier.mequignon.free.fr/ct60/index-e.htm (bottom of the page)
and
One described by Exxos: https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/CT60/flash.htm
and
One described by Rodolphe(?): http://powerphenix.com/CT60/english/update.htm

And some of them kind of conflict (for example in powerphenix it says not to remove the CT60 in order to flash ABE but then didier says it's ok to do it). Any words of wisdom here? :?
I follow the instructions found in the (temporary) Atari-forum WIKI and have success with it for many many times.
https://temlib.org/AtariForumWiki/index ... CT60/CTPCI

The WIki states that the CT60/63 must be plugged in the Falcon.
It makes sense to me, because there must be power going to the chips that are being programmed.

Hope not to confuse you further....

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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by Rustynutt »

I've left mine on the machine when programming, but with a Xilinx USB cable, power comes from there. So the Falcon is powered down.

Sorry, haven't looked at the Wiki yet :)

Just read using the JTAG, it does say power up the Falcon. Memory could be slipping. Just did this stuff not a few months ago :)
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by wongck »

Well... may be the USB cable from Xilinx is a higher quality product than the one I had from a China knock-off LPT version from ebay.... I mean how much power can a LPT port provide... LOL
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by wongck »

atari1975 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 4:32 am With falcamp in CT60 mode I cannot play an .mp3 for more then 2.5 minutes, the falcon will freeze (no crash dump, freeze). Very interestingly, if I load nvdi I haven't seen the freeze... I have the mp3 in a loop and it has been going for longer than 1.5h. Also in f030 mode it keeps going (irrespective of nvdi)
From what i know NVDI will disable the blitter and uses it's own sw blitter, among other things.

Just a stab in the dark.... May be try to toggle the blitter speed in CT60CPX may help???

Frankly, NVDI is loaded almost everytime I use my CT63.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by mikro »

In order to flash ABE/SDR without detaching CT60/63 you needed a hardware mod installed: http://powerphenix.com/ct60/english/update.htm ("Do not unplug CT60/63 to program ABE from the Falcon").

Of course, power must be supplied via CT60/63's power connector, it doesn't come from LPT.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by atari1975 »

mikro wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 5:59 am In order to flash ABE/SDR without detaching CT60/63 you needed a hardware mod installed: http://powerphenix.com/ct60/english/update.htm ("Do not unplug CT60/63 to program ABE from the Falcon").

Of course, power must be supplied via CT60/63's power connector, it doesn't come from LPT.
I suppose you mean this picture since I have rev 1?... It is actually a bit scary, especially cutting the trace... 8O
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by mikro »

No, I mean that one with the resistor. But sure, if you don't have that other mod, you need that one as well.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by Rustynutt »

Way more complicated than it should be.

Xilinx USB platform programmer on the way, right?

Thought I'd read one was purchased.

With the Xilinx platform USB programmer, no mods to be done at all.
Falcon doesn't even have to boot, just power on. Don't even need RAM in the CT to program this way.

Maybe I'm missing something.
Have all 3 versions, and flashed them all with no mods to the CT boards.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by Rustynutt »

wongck wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:45 am
atari1975 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 4:32 am With falcamp in CT60 mode I cannot play an .mp3 for more then 2.5 minutes, the falcon will freeze (no crash dump, freeze). Very interestingly, if I load nvdi I haven't seen the freeze... I have the mp3 in a loop and it has been going for longer than 1.5h. Also in f030 mode it keeps going (irrespective of nvdi)
From what i know NVDI will disable the blitter and uses it's own sw blitter, among other things.

Just a stab in the dark.... May be try to toggle the blitter speed in CT60CPX may help???

Frankly, NVDI is loaded almost everytime I use my CT63.
Agree with wongck.
On a stock machine, no fast ram, standard bus speed, typically NVDI is considered an enhancement.
On accelerators, NVDI is a necessity when dealing with fast ram and higher CPU clock speeds.
The forum really doesn't go back far enough to the early days of fast ram on a Falcon, FRB necessity, and problems encountered with the Blitter.

Look in the Google archives for comp.sys.atari.st for a lot of early stuff there that kind of formed the "NVDI" required answers you get here.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by atari1975 »

Ok... I think I am learning many things the hard way... But I will keep going...

A quick update:

I did try to lower the speed of the blitter through boot 1.05 but that didn't change anything. I guess because according to posts above NVDI disables the blitter?

Anyway... I did also get my xilinx programmer through the post today. I installed webpack 13.3 as suggested by the wiki (https://temlib.org/AtariForumWiki/index ... CT60/CTPCI) (thanks wongck!) and I went as far as "Programming the CPLD" step 6. After Impact has detected the two chips and I am about to define the jed for ABE, Impact cowardly shuts down itself with no error messages... :oops:

Now I noticed there are two more links that I found (none of them actually mentioning any mods on the PCB 8O ) on how to flush the CT60 and one is from exxos: https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/CT60/flash.htm . To my amazement I followed a link he has embedded there about things that have gone wrong for him. The link points to here: https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/CT60/index.htm PLEASE FOLLOW IT AND SCROLL ALL THE WAY TO THE BOTTOM...

At the bottom he is talking about exactly the issue I had with the Cancel button and my empty floppy!!! However, my CT60 doesn't have that resistor... But looking at the PCB in more detail and suspicion now, I saw something very interesting. The CY2309 right next to my crystal has pin 9 clearly cut... Please check yours, is it cut too??? Is it a fix that Rodolphe did or is it an accident??? And please let me know! I am also attaching a close up and a zoomed out picture so that you see which IC I am talking about... By the way, pin 9 is an input...
20210511_000536.jpg
20210511_001920.jpg
And by the way... Has anybody done the mods mentioned in Rodolphe's page? No doubt he is the father of CT60 but I really don't want to cut anything on my board unless there is no way around... Maybe this s why the xilinx software crashes? Maybe not... Maybe because of the cut pin 9? *sigh* I think I need to sleep on this... Please let me know your thoughts..
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by stormy »

In my opinion you are spiraling down the rabbit hole of finding every little thing it could be, adding confusion and complexity along the way. Before you go on flashing, modding and bricking your ct60 just focus on the basics first and take things one step at a time.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by joska »

wongck wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:45 am From what i know NVDI will disable the blitter and uses it's own sw blitter, among other things.
Correct. But irrelevant on the CT60, as "CT-TOS" does not have Atari VDI but fVDI which doesn't use the blitter at all. A CT60 will run fine without NVDI.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by alexh »

One thing to consider is that some EC/LC chips have been rebranded by unscrupulous sellers. 060’s with broken MMUs or broken FPUs were sold as EC/LC but there is no way to tell in software other than they don’t work
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by wongck »

joska wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:36 am
wongck wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:45 am From what i know NVDI will disable the blitter and uses it's own sw blitter, among other things.
Correct. But irrelevant on the CT60, as "CT-TOS" does not have Atari VDI but fVDI which doesn't use the blitter at all. A CT60 will run fine without NVDI.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by mikro »

wongck wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:19 am
joska wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:36 am
wongck wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:45 am From what i know NVDI will disable the blitter and uses it's own sw blitter, among other things.
Correct. But irrelevant on the CT60, as "CT-TOS" does not have Atari VDI but fVDI which doesn't use the blitter at all. A CT60 will run fine without NVDI.
OMG 8O , you are right. Thanks for reminding.
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This is absolutely not true. You are confusing CTPCI TOS and CT60 TOS, Jo.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by DarkLord »

Just gotta say, I can't run my CT60 without NVDI.

If I do, I get corrupted graphics all over the place.

Really nasty.

Run NVDI - perfect.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by joska »

mikro wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:55 pm This is absolutely not true. You are confusing CTPCI TOS and CT60 TOS, Jo.
It would not be the first time I'm confused. But I can run both TOS and MiNT/XaAES without any VDI replacement on my CT60e. Blitting works as expected. So if there's no fVDI then there must be some other patch.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by Rustynutt »

I'll take mine out and document it.
AIRC, there was a resistor in place for programming when I'd first received it back when. Since, have desoldered/removed it using the Xilinx.
Without reading the docs for "programming on the Falcon via LPT", pretty sure that was it's purpose.

Once question, did the software pack see the programmer? Did the box indicator light up once everything was fully connected and Falcon powered on?

Actually, should be able to drop it on an MB currently on the bench and walk through the flash, and much unlike myself, will keep the "text" to bare minimum" :)
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by Rustynutt »

joska wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 4:05 pm
mikro wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:55 pm This is absolutely not true. You are confusing CTPCI TOS and CT60 TOS, Jo.
It would not be the first time I'm confused. But I can run both TOS and MiNT/XaAES without any VDI replacement on my CT60e. Blitting works as expected. So if there's no fVDI then there must be some other patch.
My 8th grade understanding :)

Don't think it's the VDI routines in question, it's bypassing the Blitter. As I understand it, NVDI replaces the blitter function, provides "hooks" for applications that would normally use the hardware Blitter. The hardware Blitter is never actually "shut off".

How are you testing/utilizing the Blitter without a replacement VDI?

Assuming 16/32mhz COMBEL output.
Assuming CT TOS 1.03C
No Blitter 8/16 CPX switch.

More for my understanding :)
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by mpattonm »

atari1975 wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 7:40 am Anyway... I did also get my xilinx programmer through the post today. I installed webpack 13.3 as suggested by the wiki (https://temlib.org/AtariForumWiki/index ... CT60/CTPCI) (thanks wongck!) and I went as far as "Programming the CPLD" step 6. After Impact has detected the two chips and I am about to define the jed for ABE, Impact cowardly shuts down itself with no error messages... :oops:
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by mpattonm »

atari1975 wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 7:40 amHowever, my CT60 doesn't have that resistor... But looking at the PCB in more detail and suspicion now, I saw something very interesting. The CY2309 right next to my crystal has pin 9 clearly cut... Please check yours, is it cut too??? Is it a fix that Rodolphe did or is it an accident??? And please let me know! I am also attaching a close up and a zoomed out picture so that you see which IC I am talking about... By the way, pin 9 is an input...
I am quite sure this is intentional and it corresponds to the schematic:
Snímek obrazovky 2021-05-11 230402.png
atari1975 wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 7:40 am And by the way... Has anybody done the mods mentioned in Rodolphe's page? No doubt he is the father of CT60 but I really don't want to cut anything on my board unless there is no way around... Maybe this s why the xilinx software crashes? Maybe not... Maybe because of the cut pin 9? *sigh* I think I need to sleep on this... Please let me know your thoughts..
The track you mention is supposed to be cut in any way, but I doubt that is why ISE fails. Its just an old and badly written software - as any other Xilinx tools for that matter.
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Re: CT60 freezing with Id Games

Post by Rustynutt »

Can confirm running iMPACT 14.7 (nt64)
P.20 13 10 13
On WIN 64 bit.
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