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Using 4096 colours

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:21 pm
by 607
I found an old topic on the same subject, but maybe there is new knowledge nowadays, so I figured I'd ask again, after almost 10 years. I read that the STE can display 4096 colours instead of just the 512. Can DEGAS+ use these extra colours? I've always had only the 3 bits per colour at my disposal. I'm working with a greyscale image right now though, and it would be very useful to have the extra bit. ;)
If DEGAS+ doesn't support it, what is a program I could get that does?
Thanks! :)

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:21 pm
by ThorstenOtto
I don't think that degas can use it. That program is just too old, at that time the STE didn't exist. But i think quite some other program can, and since the DEGAS picture format is very simple, they can surely load it. Have you tried Vision for example? (announced somewhere here in the forum, have to dig out the link myself)

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:50 pm
by 607
ThorstenOtto wrote:I don't think that degas can use it. That program is just too old, at that time the STE didn't exist. But i think quite some other program can, and since the DEGAS picture format is very simple, they can surely load it. Have you tried Vision for example? (announced somewhere here in the forum, have to dig out the link myself)
Right here. I'll check it out, thank you!

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:47 pm
by MM41
DegaSTE by YesCREW is an ACC to use the STE colors with DEGAS ELITE, on Demozoo :)

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:41 am
by spiny
607 wrote:I found an old topic on the same subject, but maybe there is new knowledge nowadays, so I figured I'd ask again, after almost 10 years. I read that the STE can display 4096 colours instead of just the 512. Can DEGAS+ use these extra colours? I've always had only the 3 bits per colour at my disposal. I'm working with a greyscale image right now though, and it would be very useful to have the extra bit. ;)
If DEGAS+ doesn't support it, what is a program I could get that does?
Thanks! :)
NeoChrome Master ( http://dhs.nu/files.php?t=single&ID=25 ) can run in STe mode, but to avoid confusion, the STe has a PALETTE of 4096 colours - low resolution can still only show 16 different colours the same as the normal ST, but the 16 colours on the STe can be from the bigger palette.

Programming tricks can easily get round this if you are using the pics in a demo though.

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:40 pm
by Greenious
Well, there's always Spectrum 512, Unispec... I'm unsure if there is an STE version or an STE equivalent.
Spectrum 512 was a computer paint program by Boris Tsikanovsky that enabled the creation of images with more than 16 simultaneous colors. Boris accomplished this by using a special display algorithm that dynamically reassigned the color palette three times per scan line for a total of 48 unique colors (out of 512) per scan line. Unispec—which was not published by Antic—was basically a second-generation Spectrum 512 that added more sophisticated features, including the ability to do page-flipping animation.
http://doudoroff.com/atari/spectrum.html

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:01 pm
by prog99
Unispec was really neat. You could do all the work in spectrum512 and the desk accessory would then punt it into degas for you complete with decent colour downscaling.

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:14 pm
by metalages
You can have a look at this piece of software by Zerkman
https://github.com/zerkman/mpp

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:50 am
by 607
spiny wrote:NeoChrome Master ( http://dhs.nu/files.php?t=single&ID=25 ) can run in STe mode, but to avoid confusion, the STe has a PALETTE of 4096 colours - low resolution can still only show 16 different colours the same as the normal ST, but the 16 colours on the STe can be from the bigger palette.

Programming tricks can easily get round this if you are using the pics in a demo though.
Right. 16 colours is enough; if I use dithering I can get the image to look pretty nice. However, with the 512-colour colour palette, there are only 8 colours to use in greyscale images.

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:11 pm
by spiny
607 wrote:
spiny wrote:NeoChrome Master ( http://dhs.nu/files.php?t=single&ID=25 ) can run in STe mode, but to avoid confusion, the STe has a PALETTE of 4096 colours - low resolution can still only show 16 different colours the same as the normal ST, but the 16 colours on the STe can be from the bigger palette.

Programming tricks can easily get round this if you are using the pics in a demo though.
Right. 16 colours is enough; if I use dithering I can get the image to look pretty nice. However, with the 512-colour colour palette, there are only 8 colours to use in greyscale images.
yes, so if you use NeoChrome and tick the 'STe' option, you'll have 16 colours to use in greyscale :)

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:16 pm
by spiny
607 wrote:
spiny wrote:NeoChrome Master ( http://dhs.nu/files.php?t=single&ID=25 ) can run in STe mode, but to avoid confusion, the STe has a PALETTE of 4096 colours - low resolution can still only show 16 different colours the same as the normal ST, but the 16 colours on the STe can be from the bigger palette.

Programming tricks can easily get round this if you are using the pics in a demo though.
Right. 16 colours is enough; if I use dithering I can get the image to look pretty nice. However, with the 512-colour colour palette, there are only 8 colours to use in greyscale images.
example pics:

Neo in ST mode, you can have greyscales of 000 to 777:
neo-8.png

Neo in STe mode, you can have greyscales of 000 to FFF:
neo-16.png

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:33 pm
by 607
spiny wrote:NeoChrome Master ( http://dhs.nu/files.php?t=single&ID=25 ) can run in STe mode, but to avoid confusion, the STe has a PALETTE of 4096 colours - low resolution can still only show 16 different colours the same as the normal ST, but the 16 colours on the STe can be from the bigger palette.

Programming tricks can easily get round this if you are using the pics in a demo though.
I got NeoChrome Master, but after a few minutes of trying every option I could find and searching through the manual, I have not been able to figure out how to load/open images. :shrug:

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:40 pm
by spiny
607 wrote:
spiny wrote:NeoChrome Master ( http://dhs.nu/files.php?t=single&ID=25 ) can run in STe mode, but to avoid confusion, the STe has a PALETTE of 4096 colours - low resolution can still only show 16 different colours the same as the normal ST, but the 16 colours on the STe can be from the bigger palette.

Programming tricks can easily get round this if you are using the pics in a demo though.
I got NeoChrome Master, but after a few minutes of trying every option I could find and searching through the manual, I have not been able to figure out how to load/open images. :shrug:

it's not obvious, but you need to right click the disk icon. You can also select what formats to load or save in, I'd recommend PI1/degas as that format can be opend on PC and Mac too if needed.

first left-click the disk to open file options:
neo3.png
then right-click the disk to open the load dialogue:
neo5.png
and the pic will load:
neo6.png
left click the disk to select it, then left click again to open the save dialogue.

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:00 am
by 607
I succeeded! There was a bit of effort left still, but I figured it out! :) The result is as nice as I could have hoped for.

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:47 pm
by MiggyMog
Deluxe paint and canvas are also good for STE

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:31 am
by spiny
607 wrote:I succeeded! There was a bit of effort left still, but I figured it out! :) The result is as nice as I could have hoped for.

cool :)

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:45 pm
by alexh
If you're converting images perhaps from other platforms rather than new compositions then I've enjoyed using photochrome

http://www.leonik.net/dml/sec_pcs.py

With some of the options, for static pictures displayed over 2 or more frames you can emulate 226,981 colours on STe. On older CRT TVs they look amazing. Flicker a little bit on my LCDTV

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:40 pm
by Cyprian
in addition to Zerkman and DML's, there is another one - Anima's tool: http://tool.anides.de/

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:26 pm
by metalages
Speaking of DML's work, there is also the other 16 colors approach using his Cryptochrome tool.

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:13 am
by Estrayk
Btw, this is impressive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPsY4P8bnVw

Is there a demo or game that uses this DML's technique?

Re: Using 4096 colours

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:57 pm
by 607
alexh wrote:If you're converting images perhaps from other platforms rather than new compositions then I've enjoyed using photochrome

http://www.leonik.net/dml/sec_pcs.py

With some of the options, for static pictures displayed over 2 or more frames you can emulate 226,981 colours on STe. On older CRT TVs they look amazing. Flicker a little bit on my LCDTV
That sounds interesting! I'll try to remember to check it out when it could be useful.