Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

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dml
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by dml »

kristjanga wrote:both versions work flawless on a Dell D1028LR crt vga monitor, I have several monitors and I will test all of them to see if any of them has problems
Thanks for letting me know.
kristjanga wrote: but what a feeling to finally see Doom on a real Atari Falcon 030 :) man I thought this day would never come, well some atari coders over at one dedicated atari irc channel did tell me that this would be impossible..
Glad you're getting some fun out of it.

Well, a straight port probably would be impossible (e.g. just by doing what is usually done on most of the other platforms - optimizing the existing C code but not changing what it does). But with some deeper/more extensive changes its a bit more likely :-)
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by dml »

mfro wrote: If you want to compare 386 to 486, you should keep that in mind. Forget about the 386SX which was heavily crippled even according to standards of that time.
Yes that's true. The old 'SX/DX' marketing stuff was (and still is) used by several tech giants to make it easier for people to pick a low or high end unit. There was no technical meaning behind them, except one was generally crap compared to the other one.

Most markets identify a customer base which is more willing to spend if there is a cheaper option - regardless of what that means to the product. Sometimes they don't even change the product ;-)
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by calimero »

EvilFranky wrote:Separate video RAM. I think Doug has mentioned the biggest issue regarding frame rate on the Falcon is due to the videl having to share system RAM with everything else. It's a huge bottleneck.
I was talking about 386 vs 486.
They both have separated video ram :)

You are right evilfranky: I forgot that 386sx is 16bit bus! :/
But than: Doug works is even more impresive :) (on 386sx is like slide show)
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by dml »

calimero wrote: I was talking about 386 vs 486.
They both have separated video ram :)
That's true - this is only a difference for the Falcon. The 486SX does have a 32bit bus to video (and system) though + (usually) L2 cache, whereas 386SX does not.
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by calimero »

Regarding timedemo: they are not compatibile (badmood vs id doom) because of different game ticks? Right?
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

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calimero wrote:Regarding timedemo: they are not compatibile (badmood vs id doom) because of different game ticks? Right?
Right. I have not made other changes to demo recording - but there are changes to the game logic so it will not react the same way to the recorded input.

The demo records inputs mainly, so 'accurate simulation' is a big component for demo replay. Even small changes to behaviour of AIs will cause the demo to diverge early and the player ends up face down in lava, or scraping along a wall into a corner somewhere, dying over and over :-)
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by Anima »

Brilliant work! Thanks Doug. :cheers:

Just tested the alpha 2 on RGB with doom1.wad and it works great so far except when leaving the game the video mode is messed up (no sync). I tried it only once but will check it later on again. I am using a desktop resolution of 640 x 400 pixels using 16 colours.

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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by dml »

Anima wrote: Just tested the alpha 2 on RGB with doom1.wad and it works great so far except when leaving the game the video mode is messed up (no sync). I tried it only once but will check it later on again. I am using a desktop resolution of 640 x 400 pixels using 16 colours.a
Thanks!

Yes sorry - the quit/shutdown sequence has never worked. It's somewhere on the list, I may move it up a bit now :)
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by dml »

BTW there is a more extensive set of known issues at the bottom of the RELNOTES.TXT which have not made it onto the tracker yet.
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by Anima »

dml wrote:Yes sorry - the quit/shutdown sequence has never worked. It's somewhere on the list, I may move it up a bit now :)
Uh... no problem at all since the gameplay itself seems to be perfect.

Note to myself: next time read the included text files before posting about issues.


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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by dml »

Anima wrote: Uh... no problem at all since the gameplay itself seems to be perfect.

Note to myself: next time read the included text files before posting about issues.
:-D

I could not claim to reliably read instructions either! (at least, not until it goes wrong ;-) )
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by warp12 »

I was wondering, would a TT have the horsepower to run a version of Doom in TT Low (320x480)?

Not a threadjack, more curious about how powerful the Falcon DSP is.

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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

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warp12 wrote:I was wondering, would a TT have the horsepower to run a version of Doom in TT Low (320x480)?
I think by rewriting some methods it's possible to use a c2p-zoom style finalise for the window (160x120 zoomed up), and with a different algorithm for handling floors it is probably feasible yes. But to learn is to try :)
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by CiH »

News on the Centurbo 2 @ planet 50MHz 030 - Crashes on original binary, as did previous demo releases. However, the 060 binary works nicely here too, with faster loading times, a constant 12 fps is there in high detail, sound is present, and there is the same freezing/locking up in mid-game mentioned previously off keyboard controlling. :mrgreen:

The 060 binary also co-operates with my crap version of Hatari, there the game works, status panel has disappeared. The freezing/locking up also occurs here, but seems to be short duration and clears so you can resume the game. (This might be an unrelated disk caching thing?)

Edit:- To add, seems to be okay with the mouse/keyboard combination, well it's lasting longer than I am! I'm looking forward to trying it out with the Jagpad, but that seems to be elusive at the minute.
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by dml »

Thanks for the detailed info CiH...

BTW it's interesting that its not crashing with the mouse - if the DSP handshaking opts are to blame I would expect it to happen in certain locations in the map, or just after a certain amount of time (it gets unlucky with a particularly quick floor fill somewhere).

If you only see problems with keyboard based play - lots of keys held at once - this might be a new version of an older problem surfacing.

Can you describe exactly what happens when this occurs? The more detail I get, the easier it is to figure out what is to blame. e.g. is it truly a crash, or a freeze? Does liquid continue animating when it freezes? is it just stuck keys, refusing further input (does the player keep moving then stop when he hits a wall, refusing further input?

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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by CiH »

BTW it's interesting that its not crashing with the mouse - if the DSP handshaking opts are to blame I would expect it to happen in certain locations in the map, or just after a certain amount of time (it gets unlucky with a particularly quick floor fill somewhere).

If you only see problems with keyboard based play - lots of keys held at once - this might be a new version of an older problem surfacing.

Can you describe exactly what happens when this occurs?
Eerm, I've had a quick spin with keyboard only controls and have not managed to duplicate the freeze. It happened the first time midway through the first level, when I entered the first lava room. This morning, played the first three levels (Shareware Doom) and nothing bad happened.

Edit:- Unless I find anything else, I wouldn't read too much into this as the cause could equally be a very intermittent locking up on the part of 20 year old hardware. Which has happened very occasionally with that falcy. The other difference from before, was that I checked the CT2 firmware at booting, the DSP wait state was set to 'off', which may have had some effect on stability until rectified.
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by dml »

CiH: I'm not sure what that means in the real world, but I'll keep it in mind :-) I'll probably have to find out about those CT60 tweaks and differences while fixing things.

BM stability on 'fast machines' in general goes up a lot if the DSP is accelerated. The connecting bus is so slow that it's probably safe even on 060, except maybe in a few cases I need to be more careful with.
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by dml »

So after a bit of bug squashing for alpha (and still being lazy to get all the bugs logged properly - must do that soon) I started looking at things for beta, especially the fun things - since there's already enough 'un-fun' stuff which needs attention. :-)

The best news is: skilled people are starting to contribute work/content. That's a huge plus :)

As for me... not really had much coding time recently, but have started working a decent shader pipeline into the (otherwise hardwired) sprite drawing paths, so we can start to see effects like this:
shaderz.png
...plus a few more.


The tricky part is actually tagging Doom entities with this information - the 'spectre' above has a special bit reserved in the entity flags structure and there are no flags left. So it means game changes and studying other source ports for ways to get attributes through hoops.

That's all for now.
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by dml »

Found a few important optimizations in the sprite code today, which have now been fixed.

- player sprite overlays were not using the constant-z drawing path due to testing with the wrong flag bitmask
- sprite overlap tests for wall segs were not terminated when sprite_z > seg_maxz (kept scanning sprites beyond the wall)
- pedantic DSP handshakes still present on every sprite field, changed to use same signal-ready/burst method as wall segs

I haven't measured the speedup properly yet - probably only shows with lots of sprites in view, but should still be helpful.
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by dml »

Had some success recording gameplay to a demo LMP this evening on the Falcon. I'm not sure if it's 100% yet - will need to test longer playthroughs to check for desync problems - but it looks promising.

Should be useful for profiling the game with all of the optimizations on - something that isn't possible using PC-recorded games.
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

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Also did a quick test with commandline forced to "-warp 1 1 -deathmatch -altdeath -nomonsters" and got sensible looking behaviour - so it will be worth trying MIDI protocol to replace IPX, and perhaps get multiplayer working at some point.
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by Zamuel_a »

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Last edited by Zamuel_a on Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by Zamuel_a »

A quick and probably stupid question :wink:
Would it be possible to make a conversion of Duke Nukem 3D to work on a 16Mhz Falcon with the help of the DSP? Technical it's not that different (I think) from DOOM. It's not full 3D, like in Quake, but maybe the areas are more complex so it wouldn't be possible at a decent frame rate anyway. Maybe 14Mb won't be enough to.
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by dml »

I guess it's possible esp. if you start from scratch :-) but to reuse the guts of BM - would need to find out more about the overlap with Doom.

IIRC it was pretty close with some up/down view angle trick (which is going into BM anyway ;-) ) and extra effects like mirrors.

Level data probably quite different - most of the work would be there IMO. Without looking at the code, anyway.
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Re: Bad Mood : Falcon030 'Doom'

Post by Zamuel_a »

I think Duke used portal / sectors and not BSP trees, or a combination of them. Portal / sectors is the best way to speed up an FPS engine I think, since it's very easy to just draw what you see.
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