FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

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Idek Tramielski
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FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by Idek Tramielski »

ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A board
I bought this a couple of years ago, but never found the time to test it.
It is a pretty unique piece of ATARI history and I would like to see it in the right hands.

Serious offers please by PM or email.
Sparrow1k.jpg
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retired - so long, and thanks for all the fish
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by SteveBagley »

Do you have any hi-res photos of both sides?
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by Idek Tramielski »

retired - so long, and thanks for all the fish
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by SteveBagley »

Thanks.
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by stormy »

I could make something that looks 100% like that with exactly the same features and functionality for half the price. pm me.
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by mpattonm »

stormy wrote:I could make something that looks 100% like that with exactly the same features and functionality for half the price. pm me.
While skeptic, I am genuinely interested.
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by mikro »

How nice!

This looks like a final version, when comparing to this setup:
dev-board-resized.jpeg
We can see that the CPU card doesn't contain neither the DSP nor FPU yet.

It looks like this one described on old-computers.com:
sparrow-board.jpg
Assuming it works, I guess you need a Mega STE and TOS 2.07 at least.
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by SteveBagley »

mikro wrote:How nice!

This looks like a final version, when comparing to this setup:
We can see that the CPU card doesn't contain neither the DSP nor FPU yet.
That clearly has a 68000 installed, but I think these cards give us a clue into how the Sparrow and Falcon were developed. We know the Sparrow is a heavily upgraded STE at heart, and I suspect different teams were working on different parts of the puzzle. Idek's card shows that there were 68030/68882/DSP 'accelerator' card designed to plug into a 68000 socket. The shot from atari-age shows a heavily customised STE motherboard with the support chips off-board.

I'd hazard a guess that there were some people using STes upgraded with the sparrow card, while others were probably using the heavily modified motherboard with 68000 to develop other parts (graphics etc.) before they were brought together to form the Falcon.

What’s really fascinating is that Idek's card was probably made in early 1992 given the date code on the chips (DSP RAM is coded week 52 1991), which suggests these cards were still being used late in development.

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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by tzok »

mikro wrote:It looks like this one described on old-computers.com:
sparrow-board.jpg
Assuming it works, I guess you need a Mega STE and TOS 2.07 at least.
If you look closely it is exactly the same board... only with TCXO populated. Look at the GAL stickers.
https://www.maedicke.de/atari/hardware/sparrow.htm
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by Idek Tramielski »

stormy wrote:I could make something that looks 100% like that with exactly the same features and functionality for half the price. pm me.
I guess this is the straw that breaks the camel's back for me. There was a time when ATARI forums were about a shared passion and people were nice and civilized to each other. During the last couple of years I have seen a rapid decline in tone and manners in the ATARI scene. I guess in a world with an imbecile as president some people think it is normal to mix up when to communicate and when to defecate. I don't want to be part of this decline anymore.

My intention was to find a good home for the card, I didn't even mention any price!

I got to know very nice people while I was involved here and I want to thank you all for the good times.
I invested hundreds (thousands?) of hours and probably several thousand Euro in funding projects for the scene and got a lot of positive feedback. But I also had to endure really mean and unpleasant situations. At this point the price has become too high for me.

One question that has been always puzzling me remains to be answered: Why is this behaviour so extreme in the ATARI scene? I have been involved in other retro computing platforms for many years, but never experienced anything close to what we get here.

As of now, I will pull the chute and suspend my ATARI support.

Wishing you all the best!
Wolfgang
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by GokMasE »

Idek Tramielski wrote:
stormy wrote:I could make something that looks 100% like that with exactly the same features and functionality for half the price. pm me.
I guess this is the straw that breaks the camel's back for me. There was a time when ATARI forums were about a shared passion and people were nice and civilized to each other. During the last couple of years I have seen a rapid decline in tone and manners in the ATARI scene. I guess in a world with an imbecile as president some people think it is normal to mix up when to communicate and when to defecate. I don't want to be part of this decline anymore.

My intention was to find a good home for the card, I didn't even mention any price!

I got to know very nice people while I was involved here and I want to thank you all for the good times.
I invested hundreds (thousands?) of hours and probably several thousand Euro in funding projects for the scene and got a lot of positive feedback. But I also had to endure really mean and unpleasant situations. At this point the price has become too high for me.

One question that has been always puzzling me remains to be answered: Why is this behaviour so extreme in the ATARI scene? I have been involved in other retro computing platforms for many years, but never experienced anything close to what we get here.

As of now, I will pull the chute and suspend my ATARI support.

Wishing you all the best!
Wolfgang
I sincerely hope you will reconsider. I can only agree that the comment regarding "making something for half the price" has absolutely no place in a thread marked "For sale".
Why on earth should it be considered OK to backtalk someone else's advertisement this way?

To me, wrecking someone else's thread like this is just about bad manners, nothing else.

Again, I hope you will reconsider your plans to suspend your work with Atari - we need more of your kind, not fewer.. :/

Regards,

/Joakim
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by vido »

GokMasE wrote:To me, wrecking someone else's thread like this is just about bad manners, nothing else.

Again, I hope you will reconsider your plans to suspend your work with Atari - we need more of your kind, not fewer.. :/
I agree 100% with this!

And as Idek said ... I also observe more and more "idiots" on Atari scene without any respects to ...
I join to Joakim wish you to reconsider your decision!

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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by joska »

GokMasE wrote:I sincerely hope you will reconsider. I can only agree that the comment regarding "making something for half the price" has absolutely no place in a thread marked "For sale".
Why on earth should it be considered OK to backtalk someone else's advertisement this way?

To me, wrecking someone else's thread like this is just about bad manners, nothing else.

Again, I hope you will reconsider your plans to suspend your work with Atari - we need more of your kind, not fewer.. :/
What GokMasE said. Let it go, and continue enjoying your Atari hope. Your work is highly appreciated, I'm using your improved NOVA drivers in my STE and was intending to use your Falcon driver too. Very sad to see that your pages are now down and all your work is now unavailable to us enthusiasts.
Idek Tramielski wrote:There was a time when ATARI forums were about a shared passion and people were nice and civilized to each other.
While that is how we'd like to remember it, it's not entirely correct :) Yes, the Atari community has always been friendly, but there has always been a**holes around. Please note that I'm *not* putting stormy in this category, even though his remark was inappropriate everybody f*cks up once in a while.

The correct response from you now would be to sell that board for €100, forcing stormy to sell us cheap STE 030/882/DSP-accelerators :D

And stormy - the correct response from you is to contact Idek and apologize. Even if you didn't mean to offend him, you did.
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by TheNameOfTheGame »

Idek Tramielski wrote:
stormy wrote:I could make something that looks 100% like that with exactly the same features and functionality for half the price. pm me.
I guess this is the straw that breaks the camel's back for me. There was a time when ATARI forums were about a shared passion and people were nice and civilized to each other. During the last couple of years I have seen a rapid decline in tone and manners in the ATARI scene. I guess in a world with an imbecile as president some people think it is normal to mix up when to communicate and when to defecate. I don't want to be part of this decline anymore.

My intention was to find a good home for the card, I didn't even mention any price!

I got to know very nice people while I was involved here and I want to thank you all for the good times.
I invested hundreds (thousands?) of hours and probably several thousand Euro in funding projects for the scene and got a lot of positive feedback. But I also had to endure really mean and unpleasant situations. At this point the price has become too high for me.

One question that has been always puzzling me remains to be answered: Why is this behaviour so extreme in the ATARI scene? I have been involved in other retro computing platforms for many years, but never experienced anything close to what we get here.

As of now, I will pull the chute and suspend my ATARI support.

Wishing you all the best!
Wolfgang
Wolfgang, please reconsider. Believe me, I know many Atari users including myself that sincerely appreciate your contributions. You have always been a kind and truly generous person.

That reply by stormy was stupid and uncalled for. Why he would do that just to sh*t up a for sale thread is beyond me. But he doesn't represent the majority here. I know that for a fact.
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by dbsys »

I just reported stormy's completely inappropriate comment to the administration of this board.
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by lp »

Idek Tramielski wrote:
stormy wrote:I could make something that looks 100% like that with exactly the same features and functionality for half the price. pm me.
I guess this is the straw that breaks the camel's back for me. There was a time when ATARI forums were about a shared passion and people were nice and civilized to each other. During the last couple of years I have seen a rapid decline in tone and manners in the ATARI scene. I guess in a world with an imbecile as president some people think it is normal to mix up when to communicate and when to defecate. I don't want to be part of this decline anymore.

My intention was to find a good home for the card, I didn't even mention any price!

I got to know very nice people while I was involved here and I want to thank you all for the good times.
I invested hundreds (thousands?) of hours and probably several thousand Euro in funding projects for the scene and got a lot of positive feedback. But I also had to endure really mean and unpleasant situations. At this point the price has become too high for me.

One question that has been always puzzling me remains to be answered: Why is this behaviour so extreme in the ATARI scene? I have been involved in other retro computing platforms for many years, but never experienced anything close to what we get here.

As of now, I will pull the chute and suspend my ATARI support.

Wishing you all the best!
Wolfgang
Please don't punish the community for the behavior of one ill mannered individual. A better path is to use the forum options and deny stormy any voice or support. Why should this person have the power to control what you do? Please reconsider your decision.
Last edited by lp on Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by mikro »

Idek Tramielski wrote:One question that has been always puzzling me remains to be answered: Why is this behaviour so extreme in the ATARI scene? I have been involved in other retro computing platforms for many years, but never experienced anything close to what we get here.
You haven't watched some popular Amiga forums lately, have you. :-) It's a much bigger scene so the number of trolls and jerks there is much bigger, too.

As others said, please reconsider your decision, if the good guys vanish, all we are left with is ... the bad guys.
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by Idek Tramielski »

Please stop bashing stormy, this was not my intention. As I said, this is just the one straw too many for me right now.
I need some time to think about my priorities.
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by ThorstenOtto »

stormy wrote:I could make something that looks 100% like that with exactly the same features and functionality for half the price. pm me.
A million of people could build something that is a billion times faster than a Z1 for just a few cents. Would that be a Z1 then? I don't think so...
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by mrbombermillzy »

To be fair, I understand completely where he is coming from.

e.g. I did loads of tests, with plenty of documenting on how to attempt a ~1024x600 resolution out of a Commodore 128. I posted close up photos to show pixel count, method; I even put up photos of the V/H sync pulse. Then one of the board moderators(!) said the photos looked, and I quote: 'lame/fake'.
That pretty much annoyed me and I have not bothered with C128 since.

TLDR; Sometimes, its just one (very small) straw too many.

Like others have said though, PLEASE DONT QUIT! And I guess stormy didnt really intend to cause this.
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by stormy »

I am really sorry that my joke was interpreted this way. I was honestly just trying to be funny, not to offend anyone. I highly respect Idek and would not have tried to be jovial if I knew I would have this effect
Again, I apologise.
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by GokMasE »

stormy wrote:I am really sorry that my joke was interpreted this way. I was honestly just trying to be funny, not to offend anyone. I highly respect Idek and would not have tried to be jovial if I knew I would have this effect
Again, I apologise.
8O

It is often especially hard to make irony and sarcasm come through well in written text.
The problem this time was that the joke did not come through at all - so far everyone in this thread (me included) seems to have got the impression that your comment was seriously intended.

If it was indeed meant as a joke, then hopefully the apology will be accepted.
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by Idek Tramielski »

stormy wrote:I am really sorry that my joke was interpreted this way. I was honestly just trying to be funny, not to offend anyone. I highly respect Idek and would not have tried to be jovial if I knew I would have this effect
Again, I apologise.
I don't really understand this kind of humour, especially not in a for sale thread, but I believe you that it was not intentional. Apology accepted.

I also want to thank people for their kind and positive comments. Thank you very much!
Still, my feeling is that I need to take a break and reconsider what I am doing with my time.
retired - so long, and thanks for all the fish
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by joska »

Regardless of what you decide on - could you please make your work available to the Atari community again?
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Re: FS: ATARI Prototype Sparrow Rev. A

Post by Idek Tramielski »

joska wrote:Regardless of what you decide on - could you please make your work available to the Atari community again?
It should be online, it was never meant to be offline. Please check again.
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