Will the world end in 2012 ?

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Will the world end in 2012 ?

Poll ended at Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:54 pm

yes
7
16%
no
22
50%
something will happen
8
18%
not sure
7
16%
 
Total votes: 44

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exxos
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Post by exxos »

If I can get any sense out of NASA I will ask them if it would be possible.

If we rule out god totally, then something else made the rocks lighter.

The problem is, in some parts of the world, stones were moved like 100's of miles, even walking that far would take a long time never mind moving large rocks. plus there is still how they managed to cut them, mine them out of the ground.. I dont think they had a B&Q in them days to go buy stuff ready cut with free delivery...

So still have problems even if you decide thats how they did it. If workforce large enough then could well be possible, apparently it took 20 years to build. knowing that, a quick google says they would need over 300 stones a day...

now, another idea, the entire area may have been flooded back then. there is reports of rain/water damage, which seems odd. possible they moved the large stones by boat, with 100's of men they could "ship them", that could explain something aswell. Though they still would have to lift them onto the boat in the first place.

this page looks interesting. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/ex ... lders.html

IMHO, it was just pure manpower, but as to why they would bother to build them I have no idea, they probably had nothing better to do. The kings probably had some strange ideas at the time.

Now their gods , one image caught my attention http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/files/ramesesiic.jpg
and the SUMERIAN...
http://mars-earth.com/ancient/british_m ... age09.html


not sure whats going on with the dog type people! though both cultures also draw gods as human looking. from what I can tell so far they were warriors, but also warriors drawn as human like too, so its something else which is a bit strange.

oh, almsot forgot,
http://www.future-technologies.co.uk/pl ... covery.zip
there is your batery. I also did some playing around with batteries not to long ago.

http://www.future-technologies.co.uk/us ... attery.htm

ignore the first few pages, scroll down a bit, I tried to prove some things, long story!

Chris
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Post by aktiv8 »

Hey, we can hope the world will end in 2012 - won't have to put up with the London Olympics which of course will be a complete shambles.... :P
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Post by Sarek »

aktiv8 wrote:Hey, we can hope the world will end in 2012 - won't have to put up with the London Olympics which of course will be a complete shambles.... :P
lol
that's so true

I predict:
traffic jams due to poor road design and traffic management

outdoor events being rained off

indoor events being rained off due to poor drainage leading to flooding of facilities

building work being incomplete due to incompetent builders and workmen and will be finishing things off during the games with cranes and diggers all over the place. It'll be good advertising for the builders though to have miles of boards with their company logos on international tv.

heightened security at airports and events will inevitably lead to paranoid reactions and despatch of british army tanks complete with soldiers in jungle camouflage.

Olympic flames that don't work right because they can't afford to pay for the gas over here.

C'mon lets think of some more :D
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Post by RetroGamerUK »

Well anything that deal a fatal blow to the Olympics can only be a good thing, end of the world included :wink:
I just hope the four horsemen don't forget to vapourise all the footy stadiums while they are at it :)
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Post by MiggyMog »

Chris, maybe for the battery, you should roll some tinfoil & tissue saturated with the solution together with the old cathode & anode in the right places. That would mean a large surface to conduct & access to more oxygen from the air.

Now where did I get that idea.... ;-)
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Post by exxos »

MiggyMog wrote:Chris, maybe for the battery, you should roll some tinfoil & tissue saturated with the solution together with the old cathode & anode in the right places. That would mean a large surface to conduct & access to more oxygen from the air.

Now where did I get that idea.... ;-)
Yes there are a few ways you can do it, the larger it is the longer it will last kinda thing.

One good one which not many people know, tinfoil and carbon sheets, seperated by window wipes, it generates a little heat but also can be used as a battery, pretty interesting stuff! I have yet to make one, its not high up on my "to do list" but will make an interesting experiment.

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Post by exxos »

http://www.future-technologies.co.uk/planetx/bat.zip

the battery example, alternative that is...
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Post by RetroGamerUK »

exxos wrote:http://www.future-technologies.co.uk/planetx/bat.zip

the battery example, alternative that is...
Well that guy must be the world record holder for dragging out the simplest demonstration with idle rambling and indecypherable droning, I was nodding off watching it... :roll:
Close to the end someone mentions that there is only 3 minutes of tape left so then the guy pulls his finger out and gets the super capacitor going :)
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Post by exxos »

Well thats the end of a very long vid, the guy started out fine, thats the last few mins of the vid, the video was like 700mb, so just choped out the end bit. Makes a very interesting idea in anycase.
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Post by techie_alison »

Hey, I wrote to NASA years ago enclosing an SAE and everything. Never got a reply though. Asked them why it wasn't possible to have a solid cable run from the ground and into orbit. Kind of using it to send stuff up and down. Only like kilograms worth.

My idea being that up to a certain point it would be supporting it's own weight, but after that point it would be being pulled upon. So to find and strike that balance where the tensile strength of the cable was neither stretched nor compressed.

Was probably too technical for them.
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Post by exxos »

would break under its own weight ? would have to be heat resistant too, other than that probable to work...

Though if your going to all that trouble, As the god Tesla once said, run a pipe up into space from the Earth, as its cold in space, The pipe will heat up. Heat being used to drive generators.

There is some stuff online that NASA have replied too, maybe you just have to ask the right questions.. though probable they wont reply due to politics etc.

I can't sleep is to fraking hot :-(

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Post by RetroGamerUK »

Orbital tether... carbon nanotubes.....
I think in theory the strength of the material is not a problem for our egghead scientists, but for lifting living cargo the journey would be bad due the the radiation in part of the upper atmosphere, to protect from this would be a problem, according to a telly prog I watched anyway :wink:
Yes it is too hot man :oops:
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Post by exxos »

would have to be a loop to ride things up, unless the cargo has a small rocket to push it up the line. a pully could work. The line would still have to be a few 100 miles long. It would also have to be fixed by a satalite wouldn't it ? not sure! Though don't want the line to start to wonder, could end up gettign wraped around the planet, hitting aircraft as it goes. Also the clouds and thunderstorms would be cool, zap a gigavolt of lightning up the line, have nice fireworks off the end of the line in space. :D
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Post by RetroGamerUK »

Well, the "discovery channel" type documentary that I watched which covered the theory of orbital tethers suggested that the tether would need to be secured to the ground at an optimal distance from the equator for the centrifugal force of the station trying to escape the earth's orbit to be sufficient but not too great to maintain a steady tension on the tether.
I can't remember the how it was proposed to drop, or carry up the first line but the idea thereafter was that every time a platform was sent up it would weave further carbon nanotubes onto the existing tether thus making it stronger, and the "lifters" would never descend the tether again but would be secured at the station thus adding mass to it to balance with the material added to the tether etc etc.
So eventually you would have a very strong tether and a considerably large station at the end of it...
I can see the merits of it, but I for one would not enjoy the 350km journey up which would take several days.
Do a google for "Orbital tethers" or "space elevator", there are plenty of hits...
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Post by Sarek »

techie_alison wrote:Hey, I wrote to NASA years ago enclosing an SAE and everything. Never got a reply though. Asked them why it wasn't possible to have a solid cable run from the ground and into orbit. Kind of using it to send stuff up and down. Only like kilograms worth.

My idea being that up to a certain point it would be supporting it's own weight, but after that point it would be being pulled upon. So to find and strike that balance where the tensile strength of the cable was neither stretched nor compressed.

Was probably too technical for them.
I did a simulation of tethers a few years ago. It was actually quite difficult to keep the thing in a stable orbit. At this "optimal length" you talk about the satellite has a tendency to be pulled too hard by the cable which drags it into a lower orbit where it then is travelling too fast and crash lands. The other problem is the higher distance for the satellite to travel around the earth in 24 hours at the orbital height compared to the tether grounding on the earth's surface.

My sim suggested that it wouldn't work perfectly unless there is a constant thrust applied by the satellite, or the tether goes up at almost 90 degrees (ie, tangential to the earth's surface). Also, you can't hope to have a straight tether, it will need to arc considerably.
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Post by Sarek »

I'm remaking my tether program.

The problem you see is that it isn't just the satellite thats in orbit - every particle in the tether itself is tempted by gravity into it's own orbit. Things closer to the ground must normally move faster if they are to stay in a stable orbit, but the shorter distance they have to travel also.

But these particles are not loose, they are part of the tether, and the effect is that there are unwanted forces in the tether, pulling it ahead of the satellite, and this can't be overpowered by the radial tension because things in orbit are in "freefall" and tethers don't behave like hanging strings.

The overall effect is that the middle of a tether is distorted forwards to form an arc, which changes the pull angles at both ends.

This imposes an oblique force on the satellite, which changes the angular velocity of the satellite, thus the orbital height, thus slackening the tether and allowing it to arc more, which leads to greater problems. From the groundstation, the limp tether is likely to lay down tangential to the earth surface. It can just about be stable like that but it's a very fragile stability. :)

So Alison, if you know any tips on how to stop 'em going limp, the guys at NASA would then surely respond to your SAE letters. ;)

Wait for my sim to be finished off then you'll see the dynamics of these things. :)
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Post by Sarek »

well its done :) but its just not worth running because its not even remotely interesting. :( It can simulate a variety of tether materials (including theoretical ones), through their true elasticities, energy absorbing potential, material densities, and tensile limits. It can simulate uniform cables, or tapering cables, and simulate from a wide variety of initial states, with different masses of satellite, with different orbit shapes and altitudes. Yet the outcome is always the same - the tether snaps.

If I turn off the cable_snap ability, then in low orbit the satellite crashes pretty quickly (around 25 minutes) because it can't sustain a 24 hour orbit at low altitude. In high orbit, the program risks crashes as cable tensions can grow exponential. :) This can be caused by shockwaves along the tether as it "bounces" at it aphelion, which reflects off the groundstation and back up the cable and yanks the satellite into a fatal orbit like its been stung by the flick of a whip. (It lasts around 48 hours if you're lucky)

There are always these aphelions because the satellite is forced to travel in a 24 hour orbit at an unnatural altitude. There are no stable altitudes. Even if you try circular orbits at geostationary altitudes, or Aly's "tension balanced" altitude, the oblique cable pull always creates elliptical orbits and the satellite is then destined to rise to its aphelion around 12 hours later where it will snag the tether and create a fatal shockwave.

So always remember - if NASA (or god forbid the ESA) ever try making tethers, its a con!! lol.

If it was interesting then I'd sure upload it because I generally love making & playing with my sims, but it really is a waste of time. Tethers are stupid. EOS. :evil:
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Post by PaulB »

Surely a tether that long would have a hell of a lot of weight. Any satellite it's connected to would have to have it's burners on constanly upwards and occasionaly adjust sideways to keep it's orbit position. Because of the weight of the cable, even though the satelite is weightless in space, the weight from the cable attached to the Earth will pull it down unless a counter-active measure is taken i.e. the satelite constantly pulling against the cable to keep it semi-taught.
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Post by Sarek »

PaulB wrote:Surely a tether that long would have a hell of a lot of weight. Any satellite it's connected to would have to have it's burners on constanly upwards and occasionaly adjust sideways to keep it's orbit position. Because of the weight of the cable, even though the satelite is weightless in space, the weight from the cable attached to the Earth will pull it down unless a counter-active measure is taken i.e. the satelite constantly pulling against the cable to keep it semi-taught.
Tether has mass. Weight is the force when that mass is accelerated.
Well gravity itself is an intense pulling force, but things keep in orbit. Even if you add a constant pulling force, which was what techie_alison was thinking about, things can still keep in orbit. Simply - the harder you pull, the faster the orbit.

But the tether isn't a fixed rod because you can't make something so long be so rigid. This is fundamentally the problem.

Most of the tether too is in orbit. But the bits close to the earth are being pulled harder by gravity and will want to orbit faster, so the tether is distorted into an arc, etc, etc.

To get an idea of the forces/weight of tethers. A length of tensile steel (of any uniform diameter) would almost certainly have snapped if it has to support it's own weight beyond 132km length. Tethers to geostationary satellites or those to Aly's tension balanced altitude are over 36000km long.

So they're no where near enough tensile strength, let alone rigid enough.

:)
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Post by tobe »

Hopefully it will end in 2012 :D
step 1: introduce bug, step 2: fix bug, step 3: goto step 1.
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Post by herrv »

Save the cheerleader save the world !
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* Pray The UnHoly Lapinou From Hell ! *
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Post by PaulB »

herrv wrote:Save the cheerleader save the world !
Heroes... Excellent show!
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Post by Stethane »

I voted "not sure" because the question was "Will the world end in 2012?". If it was "Do you think the world will end in 2012?" I'd have voted no. There's a chance it could end any time, so unless you can see into the future then by default you're not sure. :P
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Post by exxos »

The topic was to get peoples attention really, I vote something will happen in 2012.

Though theres a prediction for the end of the world every year, there is a load of facts and fictions to predict the end of the world in almost any year.

2012 is when the mayan calander ends, nothing really to get excited about, but at the end of this time god is supposed to arrive to give them a new calander. If god returns in 2012, then it will be the end of the world "as we know it" would be more fitting.

I gave my article to the jehovah guys about a week ago. These guys really know thier bible stuff! The short version is the prophecy's appear to becomming true, other than than the return of god. But even the prophecy guys in the bible do not know when the return will be, only god himself does. Which seems a little odd in itself. Thats what it says in the bible.
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Post by RetroGamerUK »

exxos wrote:But even the prophecy guys in the bible do not know when the return will be, only god himself does.
Exactly :|
And that would have been my vote had "God Knows" been an option :wink:

If it turns out true and God enters orbit in a big shiny spaceship I will enjoy seeing the look on the faces of all the (up until that point) self riteous Religious folk as they look up to the Heavens in disbelief....

Actually, if we are being watched by not-so omnipotent aliens and they learn of this prophecy then they could easily pull a fast one like Christopher Columbus did to those natives with the Blood Moon about 500 years ago :lol:
Well I would have fell for it then and I will fall for it again in 2012 :wink:

Let's face it, if they have cracked interstellar travel then some white robes, false beard, powerfull P.A. system and bright lighting should be no problem to pull off! :D
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