Pacmania

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Pacmania

Post by qq1975b »

Hi,

Pacmania is one of my most liked games but was terrible compared to the Amiga version.
But, with the launch of the STe...nobody made an enhanced STe version of this game, am I right?

Could it be similar to the A500 in an STe?
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Re: Pacmania

Post by DarkLord »

qq1975b wrote:Hi,

Pacmania is one of my most liked games but was terrible compared to the Amiga version.
But, with the launch of the STe...nobody made an enhanced STe version of this game, am I right?

Could it be similar to the A500 in an STe?
Well, there was PacMan on E's. Very nice version. :)
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Re: Pacmania

Post by Marakatti »

DarkLord wrote:
qq1975b wrote:Hi,

Pacmania is one of my most liked games but was terrible compared to the Amiga version.
But, with the launch of the STe...nobody made an enhanced STe version of this game, am I right?

Could it be similar to the A500 in an STe?
Well, there was PacMan on E's. Very nice version. :)
Indeed but it's missing the third dimension ;)

I always liked the ST version and it's jumpy music very much. Wouldn't call it terrible. There's no differences in playability altough we only see half of the playground. STe could easily handle the A500 version.
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Re: Pacmania

Post by qq1975b »

Pacman OE is a classic style pacman...nice...but Pacmania I think was awesome by graphics, music, playable...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wab0HVQkGjQ (ATARI ST)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiNlAKzdRv4 (AMIGA)

It is a pity that there isn't any enhanced version of this game for STe and seeing if it is capable of being similar to the Amiga version :(
It is a game that could have shown the full potential of the STe.

Yes, I like the music too :)
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Re: Pacmania

Post by wongck »

Look very Lego like to me. :lol:
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Re: Pacmania

Post by Nyh »

qq1975b wrote:Hi,

Pacmania is one of my most liked games but was terrible compared to the Amiga version.
But, with the launch of the STe...nobody made an enhanced STe version of this game, am I right?

Could it be similar to the A500 in an STe?
A good programmer could make it like the A500 on a ST, except for the music.

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Re: Pacmania

Post by simonsunnyboy »

I always found the ST version to be extremely playable and wellcrafted. Yes, it is not the full screen scrolling around but the playability does not suffer.

Try the ZX Spectrum and Amstrad CPC versions, and you soon will appreciate the ST port ;) For YM standards, the music is also quite good.

I personally enjoy the ST version of Pacmania to this day.
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Re: Pacmania

Post by Zamuel_a »

It looks like the ST version only use 2 bitplanes to speed up the scroller. It is possible to scroll in 4 bitplanes rather fast on an ST, like in Turrican so this could have been done better. On an STE this would be a very simple game to make :wink:
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Re: Pacmania

Post by simonsunnyboy »

Where are those simple-to-make STE games then? Seems developers want to do even more than the simple stuff and nothing makes it in the end....
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Re: Pacmania

Post by qq1975b »

:coffe: Any volunteer then??????? :lol:
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Re: Pacmania

Post by nativ »

qq1975b wrote::coffe: Any volunteer then??????? :lol:

There is a jaguar version floating around....
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Re: Pacmania

Post by qq1975b »

Zamuel_a wrote:It looks like the ST version only use 2 bitplanes to speed up the scroller. It is possible to scroll in 4 bitplanes rather fast on an ST, like in Turrican so this could have been done better. On an STE this would be a very simple game to make :wink:
Maybe the programmer didn't like the Atari :x

It would be nice having a full featured STe version
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Re: Pacmania

Post by wongck »

If the game is targeted for several platform, base version should be for the lowest denominator.
Then when they have time, or by some other criteria, update the base version to use the hardware of better computers.
May be they have not time to update the base version for ST.
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Re: Pacmania

Post by nativ »

wongck wrote:If the game is targeted for several platform, base version should be for the lowest denominator.
Then when they have time, or by some other criteria, update the base version to use the hardware of better computers.
May be they have not time to update the base version for ST.

I think the engine for the ST version is quite similar to the Spectrum just with Colour, same Ym/AY msx screen split etc. Maybe Go full screen and have the Score overlay in the Right border. I do like the Blockout effect of some of these conversions, gives an arcade feel. Having the score set to one side that is.
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Re: Pacmania

Post by wongck »

I always though the blockout was because the CPU cannot handle the graphics in full screen & so they have to block some part so that the game is playable.
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Re: Pacmania

Post by qq1975b »

wongck wrote:I always though the blockout was because the CPU cannot handle the graphics in full screen & so they have to block some part so that the game is playable.
I thought the same...in that time I read on videogames magazines that it was due to the lack of the blitter chip so the CPU wasn't able to manage all things (not like the Amiga that has the Agnus, Paula and Denise custom chips to help the processor with video and sound). That is why I am deceptionated because there is not an Atari STe improved version on a game that can be really really improved :cry:
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Re: Pacmania

Post by Zamuel_a »

A blitter isn't necessary for a game like this. It would make it easier, but the sprites are few and not to big so a good software routine should work. Just look at Turrican on an ST. Alot of sprites and smooth (25fps) scrolling.

The problem is mostly that game developers wanted to make something fast to make money. If they spent alot of extra time on doing it better it wouldn't sell for more anyway. Not back then anyway.

I think most of the games on Amiga could be converted to STE and in a simple game like Pacmania that wouldn't be very CPU intensive if you use hardware scrolling and blitter you could play the same MOD music as the Amiga aswell.

A funny thing is if you look at the game you can see that the 3D angle it is at makes it so that the sprites are always infront of the level. If the angle had been less the sprites would be partly behind the walls at some locations, making the game alot harder to create. As it is now it's just as simple as any other 2D scrolling game.
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Re: Pacmania

Post by qq1975b »

:x ...so...they could have been done a magnificient Pacmania on Atari ST and did it only on half screen...terrible and a pity.
I am playing it on the Amiga...but I would liked it very much to play it on the ST with a similar features.
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Re: Pacmania

Post by BoNuS »

Busy with another project already for all Atari's ;)
Maybe next time...

But indeed it seems there is a lot of talk about making games, but thats just what it is unfortunaly.
Haven't seen much lately and there a so many nice easy to make games just wainting to be ported...
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Re: Pacmania

Post by Zamuel_a »

If anyone want an "easy" project for the STE, then converting a ST game is a good idea. I guess the best way is to start with the Amiga version and convert that one since it more or less looks and works as we want the STE version to be. I have never done any programming on Amiga so don't know if that is easier than start with the ST version, but the graphics and music should be taken from Amiga anyway.

I prefer to do a new game for STE instead of converting something old.
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Re: Pacmania

Post by qq1975b »

But for someone who is a good programmer, it seems by the comments on the thread, that it won't be very difficult, and the improvement would be really high.

@BoNus... I am on the cue :lol:
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Re: Pacmania

Post by Zamuel_a »

A game like this is very easy to do on STE. Among the easiest there is actually, a simple hardware scroller that is only a few screens wide / high and simple sprites to draw with the blitter, so you don't have to be a "good" programmer to do it. Making the ST version equal to the Amiga version needs a better programmer :wink: I think it could be possible. With a syncscroller you could probibly do it in 50fps on an ST to.
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Re: Pacmania

Post by Nyh »

Zamuel_a wrote:Making the ST version equal to the Amiga version needs a better programmer :wink: I think it could be possible. With a syncscroller you could probibly do it in 50fps on an ST to.
For 50 fps on a plain ST I would use lots of preshifting to create every possible tile glued to every possible other tile so you can redraw the screen without shifting or merging tiles together. Using 12 registers for movem copying, 3 address registers for source address and 1 address register for destination address you have a 288x200 screen and enough time left to draw sprites and do the game mechanics. The core field drawing routine would be something like this:

Code: Select all

   movem.l  (a4)+,d0-d3
   movem.l  (a5)+,d4-d7
   movem.l  (a6)+,a0-a3
   movem.l  d0-d7/a0-a3,d16(a7)
Eating 240 cycles. For 3 columns and 200 lines is this 144000 clock cycles, about 90% of the available processor time. How many ghosts do we have to display? This is going to be very tight.

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Re: Pacmania

Post by qq1975b »

I will find out and edit this post, but between 4 and 6.

Edit: Found! Maximum of 9 ghosts in the last levels.

From StrategyWiki:
Making the game even more difficult, is the fact that that the ghosts will often travel in groups spaced in such a way as to render jumping ineffective, even if Funky and Spunky are not present. Even worse, after the fourth round, Funky usually appears in pairs, and the last few rounds have pairs of Spunkys as well. Since this can add up to as many as nine ghosts on a round, the scoring for eating them is the familiar 200, 400, 800, and 1600, followed by 3200, then every ghost eaten thereafter is worth 7650 points.


Colors should also be improved...very few colors on ST version :(
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Re: Pacmania

Post by Zamuel_a »

Colors should also be improved...very few colors on ST version
From what I can see on the first level it looks like the background is made of 4 colors, 3 different shades of gray and yellow for the dots. 4 colors = 2 bitplanes and that saved alot of scrolling time. I guess the game don't use any preshifting at all and to make it run on a 0.5Mb machine they had to reduce the quality abit, but I think it could be done better.

If anyone want to remake the ST version I think it would be cool to use syncscrolling so that it can be full screen at 50fps.
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