Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

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Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

No problem, I have a Jag Pad.
17
71%
I don't have a Jag Pad, but am happy to play using the Keyboard until I get one.
5
21%
Even though it will be awkward to play, I'd like a Joystick & Keys method implemented please! :?
2
8%
 
Total votes: 24

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Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Heavy Stylus »

I'm currently part of the development team for a new STE game project. I'm not allowed to give away too much info, but the control system is a bit of an issue as it requires three fire buttons (all of which need to be accessible *very* quickly).

We're designing the game to (currently) be Jag Pad or Keyboard only (after much debate we cannot come up of a way to integrate the controls in a single button joystick without massively sacrificing playibility). This poll is to identify roughly how many STE owners out there have jag pads/who are happy to play via keys/or if people really want a sucky joystick & keys method implemented...
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by nativ »

Hi,

A good solution to a lack of Jagpad is to include a combination of joy and keys.

Or perhaps joystick and midi keys (on a drum controller??)

Good luck!

Regards

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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Heavy Stylus »

Hi Nativ,

The issue we have at the moment with joy+keys is that (compared to jag pad or keyboard only) the game will be very difficult to play. It will require fast reactions, and (imo) reaching from the joystick to keyboard will just take too much time to make it fair compared to the other control methods (the game design has it geared towards being suitable for a STOT round, as was 'r0x').

I'm hoping to get a cheap adapter for the STE Enhanced Joystick Port manufactured via Alison so that a three button genesis/megadrive pad can be used, and possibly ship these (and a controller) with a 'deluxe' boxed version of the game (at cost price - this is a non-profit project), or just have them available for sale at the time of release. These adapters will also be compatible with reservoir gods releases.
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Zamuel_a »

since it's very easy to make an adapter for a regular PC gamepad and connect it to eather the usual mouse port (2 buttons) or the STE port for 4 buttons I think this shouldn't be a big issue. Maybe someone could draw a schematic for how to connect a PC pad with a regular 15 pin D-SUB to the STE port (I could do it if I get the time. I want to test this for my game aswell).
I think a regular PC pad could have 4 buttons without any tricky multiplexing stuff. The PC game port is made for 2 joysticks with 2 buttons each and most gamepads combines them for 4 buttons.
The Atari port can also support 2 joysticks I think in on port? So then it's easy to connect it.

For my game I NEED 2 buttons, but I would also need a button for weapon select and one to select the "game map". They can ofcourse be on the keyboard since it's not so critical, but had been nice to have all on the gamepad ofcourse.

Then I need a gampepad on PC I use my SNES pad since I think it's one of the best pads (especially then I have played SNES games on a emulator). There is a very easy interface for SNES to PC parallelport without any extra electronics (there are some diods connected, but that's all) so maybe it could be connected to the Atari to?

Anyway I think that a new Atari game today should expect the player to use a 2+ button joystick. It's not much money for a jag pad or SEGA pad anyway.
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Heavy Stylus »

Yeah - valid points there. If it is an STE only game, there shouldn't be an issue with making it STE EJP only. If Alison is willing to make a 4-button adapter for the port so that a genesis/MD pad can be bought cheaply and plugged in, then people won't have to worry about tracking down a jagpad on ebay (they normally sell for 10-15 quid, whereas a cheap genesis/MD clone costs a fiver).
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by nativ »

Heavy Stylus wrote:Hi Nativ,

The issue we have at the moment with joy+keys is that (compared to jag pad or keyboard only) the game will be very difficult to play. It will require fast reactions, and (imo) reaching from the joystick to keyboard will just take too much time to make it fair compared to the other control methods (the game design has it geared towards being suitable for a STOT round, as was 'r0x').

I'm hoping to get a cheap adapter for the STE Enhanced Joystick Port manufactured via Alison so that a three button genesis/megadrive pad can be used, and possibly ship these (and a controller) with a 'deluxe' boxed version of the game (at cost price - this is a non-profit project), or just have them available for sale at the time of release. These adapters will also be compatible with reservoir gods releases.
Not necessarily convenient I understand, but possible as long as your joystick has plungers on so you can still wiggle without it moving!

There is a website where someone makes the four way Jag adapters.........

Will you support these?

How did the Atari Midi interface control box called K.A.T.T. connect?


EDIT********
Another thought is to use the Fire button on Port 0 and the mouse buttons on Port 1? Does Photon Storm do this?

Regards
Last edited by nativ on Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Heavy Stylus »

"Not necessarily convenient I understand but possible as long as your joystick has plungers on so you can still wiggle without it moving!"

Nativ, you are the second person to suggest this, so we may take it on board... I suggested a 'coin-op mode' to the coder (joy for movement, zxc action buttons), but as this could ONLY be used by people with suckers on their joystick it was thrown out.

However... as two people have asked for it, I might be able to get something sorted.
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Tomchi »

Guessing how many peeps will play your game on real hardware, I think you and your team could stick on jagpad/keyboard only Heavy Stylus.


But in case you support MIDI as nahtiv asks, could you do some cables so I can play your game using my Fender guitar please ?
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Heavy Stylus »

Hey - that's an interesting idea! I will be sure to suggest that to the project leader ;)

\o/
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by belboz »

Just a note. The Mega STE does not have the enhanced joystick ports. So would love to see an option that supports it also. I have a TT also, but no EJP's there either.
Heavy Stylus wrote:Yeah - valid points there. If it is an STE only game, there shouldn't be an issue with making it STE EJP only. If Alison is willing to make a 4-button adapter for the port so that a genesis/MD pad can be bought cheaply and plugged in, then people won't have to worry about tracking down a jagpad on ebay (they normally sell for 10-15 quid, whereas a cheap genesis/MD clone costs a fiver).
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Zamuel_a »

It would be possible to use the regular mouse/joystick port and use BOTH of them for more than 2 buttons. Then you can have 6 buttons (2 joy buttons + the other joys directions). This is even easier to build since 9 pin DSUBs are easier to find than the 15 pins.
I have a switchbox for mouse/joystick connected to the joystick port since I need to switch between them (only the mouseport supports 2 buttons). If someone made a interface to sell it could be good to make a switchbox there you connect a joystick and mouse and then 2 connections that goes into both joy ports.
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Frank B »

Heavy Stylus wrote:Yeah - valid points there. If it is an STE only game, there shouldn't be an issue with making it STE EJP only. If Alison is willing to make a 4-button adapter for the port so that a genesis/MD pad can be bought cheaply and plugged in, then people won't have to worry about tracking down a jagpad on ebay (they normally sell for 10-15 quid, whereas a cheap genesis/MD clone costs a fiver).
Remember mega ste's don't have the extra ports though. Not sure if this is a concern or not.

Note to self. I will read the whole thread before replying :)
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Awol »

Heavy Stylus wrote:I'm currently part of the development team for a new STE game project. I'm not allowed to give away too much info
Nice to see a new STE game! Can you tell us what type it will be? Shmup please! :wink:
Heavy Stylus wrote: We're designing the game to (currently) be Jag Pad or Keyboard only (after much debate we cannot come up of a way to integrate the controls in a single button joystick without massively sacrificing playibility). This poll is to identify roughly how many STE owners out there have jag pads/who are happy to play via keys/or if people really want a sucky joystick & keys method implemented...
Also nice to be able to get some more use out of my 2 jagpads. Originally got them to use with gwEm's STj (chip music DJ program).

Slightly off topic but:
Heavy Stylus wrote: I'm hoping to get a cheap adapter for the STE Enhanced Joystick Port manufactured via Alison so that a three button genesis/megadrive pad can be used
Is it possible to use Genesis controllers in the normal joystick ports? I've heard you can use Sega Master System controllers. Which is better?
I need an NES-style D-pad controller for playing shmups, rather than a joystick. Is it possible to make an NES controller adapter?
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Zamuel_a »

Is it possible to use Genesis controllers in the normal joystick ports? I've heard you can use Sega Master System controllers. Which is better?
I need an NES-style D-pad controller for playing shmups, rather than a joystick. Is it possible to make an NES controller adapter?
Yes it works, just plug it in, but you will ofcourse only get one or two of the three buttons (depending on joy or mouse port) to work:)
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Heavy Stylus »

Yeah - that's right.

IIRC, *only* the mouse port uses two buttons (the joy port only has one), which is why Zamuel is using the mouse port and a joypad in his metroid project.

The STE enhanced joystick ports can support up to 15 buttons, or something like that, which makes them ideal for our game :)
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Zamuel_a »

I will use the jag pad as the primary controller since then I can add more functions like weapon select and such stuff, but since that isn't so important (can aswell be on the keyboard) a SEGA pad in the mouse port will work just fine.
It's to bad that the MEGA STE doesn't have the extra joy ports.
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by BoNuS »

Zamuel_a wrote:I will use the jag pad as the primary controller since then I can add more functions like weapon select and such stuff, but since that isn't so important (can aswell be on the keyboard) a SEGA pad in the mouse port will work just fine.
It's to bad that the MEGA STE doesn't have the extra joy ports.
Yep I just connected my Mega STE to try Metroid and saw the sam, no extra ports for the Jagpad.
Never noticed that before to be honest. So if you make a game pure for STE (maybe Falcon) but use
the Jagpad I think you are leaving out a big group of STE users.
Maily because most normal STE don't have 4 Mb and more Mega STE have !!
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Heavy Stylus »

Just a reminder that *this* thread isn't specifically about Metroid...

Regarding the lack of STE Enhanced ports; yeah it sucks that the MSTE and TT don't have them - but at least our game will still be playable for those people via the keyboard. The overall poll looks as though the majority of STE owners do have jag pads, so at least these people will be able to use them. :)
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by nativ »

Zamuel_a wrote:It would be possible to use the regular mouse/joystick port and use BOTH of them for more than 2 buttons. Then you can have 6 buttons (2 joy buttons + the other joys directions). This is even easier to build since 9 pin DSUBs are easier to find than the 15 pins.
I have a switchbox for mouse/joystick connected to the joystick port since I need to switch between them (only the mouseport supports 2 buttons). If someone made a interface to sell it could be good to make a switchbox there you connect a joystick and mouse and then 2 connections that goes into both joy ports.

A homemade arcade stick that uses both Joy 0 and 1?

Interesting...........
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Zamuel_a »

A homemade arcade stick that uses both Joy 0 and 1?
Well you can use any PC gamepad (older model so it isn't USB) and then it would just be an adapter without any electronics, just wiring.
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by nativ »

Hmmmmmm...........


How about modularising control methods like the modular format in Whip or Escape Paint? So that if someone writes a driver for NetUSB etc. it can be supported at later date.......
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Shredder11 »

Those Jag Pads seem very expensive. Are Jag consoles rare and desirable? I was never a fan of consoles (home micro man myself) in the 80s/90s/ and so I never paid any attention to them. For the money a Jag Pad seems to cost, I might as well buy a cheap Playstation 1 controller and Aly's JeST interface. What do you think?
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Stefan jL »

I don't have an Jagpad but will get one if there is new games that use it :) I have no problem with keyboard controls.
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by dma »

One can test joystick for movement plus keys for action in my Manical Drop game, it's one of the possible controller configurations.
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Re: Preferred Control Method for a 3-Button Game?

Post by Zamuel_a »

I wonder how many would be able to build there own adapter for a joypad to be used for an STE? If there is just wireing and no electronics involved, then all you need is basic soldering knowledge.
I think it should be possible to connect a NES or SNES pad to the STE port without any problem and I like the SNES pad the best så that's what I would prefer.
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