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Re: Editing a message

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:14 pm
by dhedberg
Greenious wrote: It flatters me that you think of me being that mighty... But I am merely a moderator here, this isn't within my jurisdiction.
Haha, well... maybe you can use your might to make the master aware of the oncoming revolution among his servants.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:59 pm
by Greenious
dhedberg wrote:
Greenious wrote: It flatters me that you think of me being that mighty... But I am merely a moderator here, this isn't within my jurisdiction.
Haha, well... maybe you can use your might to make the master aware of the oncoming revolution among his servants.
Oh believe me, they are aware of the ongoing riots in this sector, and they are discussing methods to contain the discontent... :lol:

If the leader of the riots can produce a manifesto :contract: and shout just a wee bit louder :megaphone: I think they might just cave in.

But don't tell anyone I told you that. I migt lose my prison priveliges here... :mrgreen:

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:34 pm
by 607
I think for adding [SOLVED] to the title, it is easy to just report the post. It is not standard for forums to have titles modifiable by regular members, as far as I'm concerned.
However, something that I wouldn't like to report my post for is fixing a typo or spelling error...

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:34 pm
by rockyone
Personally, I have always considered this forum dedicated to Atari as the most alive of all. Through its community, the topics covered and by this unique possibility that we can change our messages, our Internet links, our data ...

It was before, before your decision which sanctions a whole community by removing a useful and widely used function.

Useful for people who create topics, as it allows them to keep important information up-to-date for the community.

Used by all, for the same purpose, it was not necessary to unroll a thread to find these precious changes.

Primordial, because unlike other forums, it was alive because there were very few dead links leading to non-existent or obsolete Web applications or pages.

Because of this change, you are taking the incoherent risk of making this forum, like many others, uninteresting and unobtrusive.

I do not blame you for wanting to limit the attitude of some, quite the opposite. But would not it have been better to warn users that such behavior could impose sanctions?

I hope this feature will be reactivated in a short time.

cordially

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:54 pm
by dhedberg
Well spoken. I wonder if our voices are heard though?

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:26 am
by 607
rockyone wrote:[...] by this unique possibility [...]

[...] because unlike other forums [...]

[...] making this forum, like many others [...]
This intrigues me. Could you please name some of those forums? I don't recall seeing any that didn't support editing messages, ever, although of course I don't clearly remember forums I visited 10+ years ago, because I was a child back then.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:17 am
by ThorstenOtto
In the german forum (forum.atari-home.de) that behaviour was changed not long ago. Until then, it was also possible to edit messages. The result of that change was similar than here: some discussion about it, and some people are quite upset. However there is one important difference: the reason for that change was apparently, that this feature was abused (old posts being deleted etc.), and that the moderator explained why this change had happened. I'm not aware of such abuses here, and i still think that there should be better ways to handle that, should this ever happen, like blocking the user or something, rather than punishing the whole community.

I'm also quite disappointed that there is still no reaction from someone explaining why this change was made. Just a short explanation would be helpful, but nothing like this had happened.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:44 am
by wongck
I propose a tier / hierarchy system that allows certain action based on your level.
The level may be depending on number of posting ( e.g. >5000 allowed to edit OP) or level ( 4 stars allowed to edit) or number of years on this board (e.g. >5 years allowed to edit).

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:31 am
by dbsys
ThorstenOtto wrote: I'm also quite disappointed that there is still no reaction from someone explaining why this change was made. Just a short explanation would be helpful, but nothing like this had happened.
I agree. This is very disappointing.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:35 am
by Zippy
It often takes me 1 or 2 edits of a new post to sort out spelling/grammar mistakes. to add that extra thing I forgot to mention the first time or just to make the post more coherent after re-reading it. And it's the same on the other couple of forums I use regularly.

I've also gone back to edit an old post or two when I've decided they revealed too much personal info about myself or someone else. And I've suggested to another user on here that a new post be edited by them for the same reason and it was edited immediately, better than waiting for a mod. to come along and deal with a flagged post.

Seems to me the advantages of allowing posts to be edited far outweigh any disadvantages.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:41 am
by jury
dbsys wrote:
ThorstenOtto wrote: I'm also quite disappointed that there is still no reaction from someone explaining why this change was made. Just a short explanation would be helpful, but nothing like this had happened.
I agree. This is very disappointing.
Well, somehow we do not deserve to be informed ...

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:27 am
by jury
Zippy wrote:It often takes me 1 or 2 edits of a new post to sort out spelling/grammar mistakes. to add that extra thing I forgot to mention the first time or just to make the post more coherent after re-reading it
If doing it "right away", you are still able to do it. It gets locked after some time.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:34 pm
by simonsunnyboy
Possible abuse as on atari-home.de was the main reason, the discussion is still going on on the admin team.
Please be patient.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:22 pm
by ThorstenOtto
Aaaah, at least someone listens ;) Thanks for the reply.

Still hoping that there could be a better solution... My main concern is not editing typos (usually you detect them shortly after the post, and you still can edit it for some time), but updating dead links, announcements/lists in the first post of a thread, attachments with newer versions etc.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:43 pm
by dhedberg
simonsunnyboy wrote:Possible abuse as on atari-home.de was the main reason, the discussion is still going on on the admin team.
Please be patient.
Possible abuse or actual abuse? To me that's a big difference. Even if it was actual abuse, the consequences of restricting editing is in my opinion a lot worse than a few incidents of abusing it. It affects me more and makes me less interested in spending time here. It's not just the restriction in itself, but because it seems like it was introduced against most users will (heck, we weren't even informed about it). The users are what make this forum. Please respect our opinions. Yes, I feel strongly about this.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:58 pm
by czietz
simonsunnyboy wrote:Possible abuse as on atari-home.de was the main reason, the discussion is still going on on the admin team.
Please be patient.
I didn't have the chance to comment this on atari-home.de before the admin over there locked the thread. But now I cannot keep quiet anymore. Why would an undisclosed incident in the German forum (that was not even explained there!) be the reason for a policy change in this forum? Why was this not openly communicated by the admin team? (BTW: In the German forum, it wasn't either. It was secretly implemented for the puzzled users to find out.)

I really have to agree with Daniel and Thorsten: There are a lot of sensible reasons why someone would edit their posts in the future. Discouraging productive members of this forum by worsening their user experience is not the way to go, imho.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:35 pm
by Atarieterno
Certainly a forum lives by the participation of people and limiting their freedom to correct or modify old posts does not invite participation.
It is also not nice to move the posts without notifying them, besides moving it to an inappropriate category: a survey about new devices is more logical that it is in the "Hardware" section and not in the off-topic chat, in any case it could move to "News and announcements".
Anyway, when there is little activity and some moderators spend their time playing to be judges these things happen ...
And I don't need to be invited to find other forums, as mentioned in the rules, that is a possibility that we all know how to use it without the need for an invitation.
I regret these negative turns, the Atari community must be taken care of and not punished, it is quite weak.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:58 pm
by spiny
We made the change to prevent abuse. While the amount of times its happened is small, the change was made to prevent it happening again.

The ideal solution is to have shadow copies / versioning of posts, so that if something questionable happens, mods/admins would be able to see what edits had been made, and highlight or revert them. But the current forum version does not support this. If that ever becomes available, we'll set that up instead.

Posts are editable for 6 hours, so plenty of time to fix typos / broken links / image attachments etc.

If you desperatly need to edit a post, please use the report options, it's really no bother and you won't get 'in trouble'

Otherwise, just quote your own post and add the new info as you see fit - this has the benefit of bumping your thread too, so will potentially show it to a wider audience.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:21 pm
by dhedberg
spiny wrote:We made the change to prevent abuse. While the amount of times its happened is small, the change was made to prevent it happening again.

The ideal solution is to have shadow copies / versioning of posts, so that if something questionable happens, mods/admins would be able to see what edits had been made, and highlight or revert them. But the current forum version does not support this. If that ever becomes available, we'll set that up instead.

Posts are editable for 6 hours, so plenty of time to fix typos / broken links / image attachments etc.

If you desperatly need to edit a post, please use the report options, it's really no bother and you won't get 'in trouble'

Otherwise, just quote your own post and add the new info as you see fit - this has the benefit of bumping your thread too, so will potentially show it to a wider audience.
So now when you see what the active users think about your change, will you revert it, or are you just bluntly going to keep your unwanted change and pretend that you're doing it for the good of the users? Sigh!

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:37 pm
by Atarieterno
dhedberg wrote: So now when you see what the active users think about your change, will you revert it, or do you just bluntly going to keep your unwanted change and pretend that you're doing it for the good of the users? Sigh!


Daniel, don't get tired, you're one step away from being "invited" to find you another forum.
What hurts me the most is to see how some of the young rebels, pirates, crackers, digital artists ... have become grumpy old men playing judges. Users deserve more respect, an Atari user is always more important than a forum and except two or three sons of a bitch, good people abound in this forum.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:55 pm
by ThorstenOtto
Now i'm really upset. You only made the change to "prevent" abuse, but for no actual reason. What makes you think that suddenly, after all the years where it worked, something like this will happen? Still, you are ignoring the voices of the users and just stick to an unwanted change.
Posts are editable for 6 hours, so plenty of time to fix typos / broken links / image attachments etc
Sorry, but that's nonsense. Links become broken after several months/years, not after 6 hours.
Otherwise, just quote your own post and add the new info as you see fit
And then, after some more posts, that info is lost again in a thread spanning several pages, instead of just being visible in the first post, so noone will read it.
the current forum version does not support this
You are using phpBB, and quoting from the features:

Code: Select all

User Logging
User's actions on the board can be logged and viewed by administrators and moderators. IP addresses are logged for these actions as well as each post made.
That should give you all the informations, should it be needed.

If you keep upsetting your users, they are just going to leave. I can't imagine that this is what you want.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:08 pm
by GokMasE
In essence, you are terminating an appreciated and frequently used feature, to prevent something that has happened.. ..never..?

This does not compute.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:51 am
by spiny
dhedberg wrote: So now when you see what the active users think about your change, will you revert it,
No, as the versioning/history feature is not yet available.
dhedberg wrote:or are you just bluntly going to keep your unwanted change and pretend that you're doing it for the good of the users? Sigh!
yes.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:53 am
by spiny
ThorstenOtto wrote:Now i'm really upset. You only made the change to "prevent" abuse, but for no actual reason. What makes you think that suddenly, after all the years where it worked, something like this will happen? Still, you are ignoring the voices of the users and just stick to an unwanted change.


Sorry, but that's nonsense. Links become broken after several months/years, not after 6 hours.


And then, after some more posts, that info is lost again in a thread spanning several pages, instead of just being visible in the first post, so noone will read it.


You are using phpBB, and quoting from the features:

Code: Select all

User Logging
User's actions on the board can be logged and viewed by administrators and moderators. IP addresses are logged for these actions as well as each post made.
That should give you all the informations, should it be needed.

If you keep upsetting your users, they are just going to leave. I can't imagine that this is what you want.
If a link is broken on an old post, report it.

If it breaks again some years later, report it again.

The edit history feature is not available for this bersion of the foum yet.

Re: Editing a message

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:53 am
by spiny
GokMasE wrote:In essence, you are terminating an appreciated and frequently used feature, to prevent something that has happened.. ..never..?

This does not compute.

It has happened, this change is to prebvent it happening again.