MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Latest news in the Atari world

Moderators: Mug UK, Silver Surfer, Moderator Team

milthorst
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:31 am
Location: Seattle USA

MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by milthorst »

I had been happily running MiNT 1.15.12 on my Milan 060 until my hard drive died. After restoring from backups to a new (used) drive, I though I'd upgrade to 1-16-1 beta using wongck's excellent guide (Thanks wongck for saving my bacon while the forum was down). That worked OK except for occasional hangs during boot-up. I thought moving up to 1-18-0 might fix this (it does boot on the first try most of the time), but now the keyboard is unreliable. Typing often requires multiple presses of the key before a character appears. The "dropped" characters wind up in the Console window. When I run Shutdown, the messages go to the screen instead of a window. Trying various combinations of Toswin2 and Xconout2 makes no difference. Same with/without keyboard.tbl. I'm using n_aes 2 and Jinnee and I'd like to stay with them. Starting n_as with INIT= or GEM= also makes no difference. Have I found a bug or is there an easy fix I've overlooked?

Milt in Seattle
ThorstenOtto
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1268
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:54 pm

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by ThorstenOtto »

Maybe you found a bug, but nobody is going to fix that in an ancient release. Please try a current snapshot, and if that bug still persists, report it on the mint mailing list, or in github issues

But even then, it might be hard to fix if that is specific to the milan.
PeterS
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:53 pm
Location: England, GB

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by PeterS »

Maybe we need a 1-20 release so people don't use these ancient versions.
joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4837
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by joska »

I'm using a rather old 1.19 (from 2014!) on my Milan060, keyboard is working perfectly fine. So try updating to 1.19 and see if that solves your problem.

https://bintray.com/freemint/freemint/d ... ur-060.zip

Please note that this archive contains binaries for the Falcon/CT60, Hades060 and Milan060. Make sure to only use the Milan-relevant parts.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64
mikro
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 2276
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:11 am
Location: Kosice, Slovakia
Contact:

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by mikro »

joska wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:49 pmMake sure to only use the Milan-relevant parts.
FreeMiNT takes care of that. No need to disable anything, except if you want to save memory. The snapshot is configured in such way that only milan-compatible modules are loaded (if not, it's a bug and report it).
joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4837
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by joska »

Ahh, I forgot about that. But I would atleast remove the non-Milan kernel from the auto-folder, even if it just exits gracefully there is no need to slow down boot and clutter the screen.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64
mikro
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 2276
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:11 am
Location: Kosice, Slovakia
Contact:

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by mikro »

There is no (non-)milan kernel in auto-folder. :)
joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4837
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by joska »

There are two kernels in the AUTO-folder in that archive. mint060.prg which is 368937 bytes and mintmil.prg which is 367832 bytes. Are you saying that both are for the Milan? In that case, why two?
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64
User avatar
Neurotoxic
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:29 pm
Location: Bremen (Germany)
Contact:

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by Neurotoxic »

joska wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:13 pm There are two kernels in the AUTO-folder in that archive. mint060.prg which is 368937 bytes and mintmil.prg which is 367832 bytes. Are you saying that both are for the Milan? In that case, why two?
Could it be that the "mint060.prg" is for a Milan with a 68060 CPU and "mintmil.prg" for a Milan with a 68040 CPU? So the user has to choose the correct kernel and delete the wrong one from the auto folder?
520 ST(M) (TOS 1.02), Falcon030 (16 MHz, 16 MB RAM, CF-Card, MiNT & MyAES), Milan040 (25 MHz, 48 MB RAM, EasyMiNT 1.90), Firebee, PowerMac G5 Late 2005 (2 x 2,3 GHz, Mac OS 10.5), iMac 4K Late 2015 (intel Core i7 4 x 3,3 GHz, Mac OS 10.11.6), IBM XT SFD (640 KB RAM, DR DOS 6.0), Compaq LTE 5300 (Pentium/133 MHz, DR-DOS 7.03), AT-PC (Cyrix 6x86L/200 MHz, Windows 98 SE/MS-DOS 6.22 & Windows 3.11)
joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4837
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by joska »

There is a separate archive for the 040-build, with three kernels in AUTO: mint040.prg, mintara.prg and mintmil.prg
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64
mikro
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 2276
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:11 am
Location: Kosice, Slovakia
Contact:

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by mikro »

Ah, sorry, I thought you are talking about the preconfigured snapshot:
tt_falcon_clones.png
Which indeed works on TT/Falcon/Milan/Hades out of the box.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
milthorst
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:31 am
Location: Seattle USA

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by milthorst »

I finally got MiNT 1-19 from Joska's zip file to boot all the way through to Jinnee, and verified that the keyboard problem still happens with it. BTW, the mint060.prg kernel refuses to run on my Milan and tells me so! Not sure where to go from here, but its too late to try anything more tonight. Did anything change between 1-16-1 beta and 1-18-0/1-19-cur that could have affected keyboard handling? I also saw this message during boot-up: "Hardware needs SUPER on first descriptor!" What does it mean?
User avatar
Neurotoxic
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 120
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:29 pm
Location: Bremen (Germany)
Contact:

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by Neurotoxic »

I think the language and keyboad settings of the Milan are done with the msetup.prg. Just rename the *.tbl file in your mint folder to *.tbx or move it out of the mint folder. You could also delete it but I won't recommand it.
520 ST(M) (TOS 1.02), Falcon030 (16 MHz, 16 MB RAM, CF-Card, MiNT & MyAES), Milan040 (25 MHz, 48 MB RAM, EasyMiNT 1.90), Firebee, PowerMac G5 Late 2005 (2 x 2,3 GHz, Mac OS 10.5), iMac 4K Late 2015 (intel Core i7 4 x 3,3 GHz, Mac OS 10.11.6), IBM XT SFD (640 KB RAM, DR DOS 6.0), Compaq LTE 5300 (Pentium/133 MHz, DR-DOS 7.03), AT-PC (Cyrix 6x86L/200 MHz, Windows 98 SE/MS-DOS 6.22 & Windows 3.11)
ThorstenOtto
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1268
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:54 pm

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by ThorstenOtto »

milthorst wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:24 am BTW, the mint060.prg kernel refuses to run on my Milan and tells me so!
I think that is normal. The 060 kernel is for other 060 based machines. Milan is a bit more special.
Did anything change between 1-16-1 beta and 1-18-0/1-19-cur that could have affected keyboard handling?
Probably a lot. But since the kernel is working for others, there must be something else going wrong.
I also saw this message during boot-up: "Hardware needs SUPER on first descriptor!" What does it mean?
The message is from here. Maybe harmless? @joska should be able to tell. Unless that has changed recently, MiNT still expects the PMMU to be initialized by some other means (dunno whether that is already done by the TOS on Milan, otherwise by tools like SET_MMU).
joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4837
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by joska »

milthorst wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:24 amI also saw this message during boot-up: "Hardware needs SUPER on first descriptor!"
Completely normal.

After reading your first post more thoroughly...
milthorst wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:18 am Typing often requires multiple presses of the key before a character appears. The "dropped" characters wind up in the Console window.
...I suspect that your problem is not MiNT itself. My guess is that you have some process or TSR running that is eating your keypresses. What else than mintmil.prg and the graphics card driver do you have in the auto-folder? Which accessories? Desktop? GEM programs? A complete list of processes (Control+Alt+L will bring up the Task Manager showing all the processes) may help.

You mention Console window, I assume that's TosWin? Running Miniwin with the old console.tos hack can give you problems under recent (as in "from this century") kernels. What happens if you don't run your terminal emulator/console?
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64
joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4837
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by joska »

milthorst wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:18 amWhen I run Shutdown, the messages go to the screen instead of a window.
Completely normal, as the console window is a GEM application and is one of the very first things that is killed during a shutdown.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64
milthorst
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:31 am
Location: Seattle USA

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by milthorst »

I never saw any shutdown messages other than the final System Halted until moving past 1-16-1.

I had a look at keyboard.c and noticed that Ozk's change to interrupt handling went in between 1-16 and 1-18.

A strange observation yesterday evening: I left the system on while I was away for 45 minutes, and when I came back the keyboard was working properly. After a reboot, problem was back.

ACCs are: bubble.acc, cache040.acc, cdaudio.acc, cops.acc cs4235.acc, outline.acc, ps_contr.ac, st-guide.acc, ximgsnap.acc.
AUTO folder (unsorted): atidrv11.prg, isapnp.prg, cs_bios.prg, nvdi.prg, extendos.prg, mintmil.prg, wdialog.prg, fpu__2m.prg.

I tried disabling keyboard.cpx. Didn't help. Will try to attach some screenshots as soon a I find a place to host them.
ThorstenOtto
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1268
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:54 pm

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by ThorstenOtto »

The first thing would be to disable *everything* that is not absolutely needed to boot the system. Maybe one of them just runs wild, and hogs cpu time. That also includes any *.cpx that are active.
milthorst
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:31 am
Location: Seattle USA

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by milthorst »

Link to photos (I hope):

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZTqocN6zm8xuto7G7

1. Boot messages after hang at keyboard.tbl install (there is none). Next boot attempt worked.
2. What I typed in QED (took more key presses than this)
3. Console window after typing this.
4. Processes part 1 of 2
5. Processes part 2 of 2
joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4837
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by joska »

Ok, you're using N.AES and not XaAES, that's useful to know. I have not used N.AES since 2006-2007. I can confirm that keyboard is not working with N.AES and the 1.19 kernel, just tried this combination now on my Milan. But I'm not sure if the keyboard is the real problem here, the entire system is extremely slow and sluggish. They keyboard sort of work, e.g. I can kill applications/accessories by Control-clicking on their entry in the desk menu. But typing does not work, nor does hotkeys/keyboard shortcuts in any GEM apps.

That aside, I see a lot of issues with your setup:
- Memory protection is disabled.
- ...probably because you are also using Jinnee and OLGA, both programs that behaves badly.
- Don't use nohog2.acc, that's just when using MiNT with the ROM AES.
- WDialog. Don't ever use this with anything else than plain TOS with NVDI 5. At best, it does nothing under MiNT/N.AES, but my experience is that it causes lots of problems. Also, you are already using NDialog which is the N.AES implementation of the WDialog features (which again is a TOS hack that implements some MagiC-only AES features).
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64
joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4837
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by joska »

Btw I just tested on my Falcon/CT60, N.AES behaves exactly the same there. So it's not Milan-specific.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64
Rustynutt
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 921
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:38 am
Location: Oregon

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by Rustynutt »

And I just purchased the CD version from Woller.... :)

I don't recall issues with "MAES" then I've not really used the Milan a lot. Was caught up in getting the SCSI to work with Michael's driver, testing a prototype 060 adapter and playing with various video cards before you sent the ATI (yet tested) driver :)

Since, have the docs and photos off Atari forum de for the IC upgrade to enhance performance, and hopefully allow the Amiga 060 adapter to be pretty much drop in. The bread board a member and I was testing just had too many issues.
Soon :)
milthorst
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:31 am
Location: Seattle USA

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by milthorst »

I put WDIALOG back in (but forgot to take out N.Dialog) because without it NVDI was locking me out if I tried to start up without MiNT in order to fix MiNT setup problems. Other than the keyboard problem, my system was definitely not "slow and sluggish." I could run my setup with MiNT 1-16 memory protection on, without WDIALOG, without problems. NOHOG2 was only in for testing and it didn't help. Is the OLGA function built in now, or what takes it's place? If I try XaAES, can I still use Jinnee for my desktop? I don't want to use Thing or anything the resembles it.
Playmobil
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:40 pm

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by Playmobil »

milthorst wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:28 am If I try XaAES, can I still use Jinnee for my desktop? I don't want to use Thing or anything the resembles it.
Yes ! You can ! :D Just edit XaAes or Mint config file, and replace Teradesk or Thing by Jinnee ! 8)

In my memory, it's at the end of the config file of XaAes... If not it's at the end of Mint config file...

Sorry for my poor english...


And if you put your hands into XBOOT3, you can boot under multi config...
Plain TOS
Mint=>XaAes=>Thing
Mint=>MyAes=>Thing
Magic=>Thing
Mint=>XaAes=>Jinnee
etc etc etc


Something like that in one of mine configuration...
Image


EDIT : MyAES & Jinnee are not very friendly... But XaAes & Jinnee no problems... Magic & Jinnee, Bhaaaaa they are friends ! :cheers:
mikro
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 2276
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:11 am
Location: Kosice, Slovakia
Contact:

Re: MiNT 1-18-0 broke my Milan Keyboard

Post by mikro »

Yes, the N.AES regression is a known bug: https://github.com/freemint/freemint/issues/143

As for the other things, I just say that if it appears to work with WDIALOG, NOHOG2.ACC, JINNEE, OLGA and all the others, it doesn't mean it is working properly. At some point in time you are going to get strange crashes, redraw errors or worse and you are going to blame FreeMiNT/XaAES for it.
Post Reply

Return to “News & Announcements”