Big issue with atari-forum.com

[Zogging Hell]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/115708225120589

Darn it, it needs logon to view.
Now I really have to make a FB account.
I have been resisting it so far.... resistance is futile, you will be assimilated...

Just make a fake name up (even if it is changing some letters round) and make sure all your details aren't your real ones (again just change a few bits), turn on all the privacy options and don't upload anything or comment on anything.. then you get the few benefits without the risk of privacy violation

[wongck]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/115708225120589

Darn it, it needs logon to view.
Now I really have to make a FB account.
I have been resisting it so far.... resistance is futile, you will be assimilated...

Just make a fake name up (even if it is changing some letters round) and make sure all your details aren't your real ones (again just change a few bits), turn on all the privacy options and don't upload anything or comment on anything.. then you get the few benefits without the risk of privacy violation

Thanks for the hints...
Really there are some privacy stuff that are all open to public until you fix them yourself.

[lp]

Thanks for the hints...
Really there are some privacy stuff that are all open to public until you fix them yourself.

There's an option on facebook to view your page as a stranger (public) would see it. So you can easily spot something you may of accidentally set to "public".

[mdivancic]

you never removed the Atari text to the right of the logo meooww

I wouldn't. In fact I wouldn't change the logo, just drop the .com part. If the address is different the can't really care what we call the site. I would also hold on to the address and make them pay big money if they want it. Just saying...

[Brume]

Thanks to everyone for your support

Just to keep you informed, we have created a new topic here : Focus on problems with "atari-forum.com" (Domain Name)

We'll try to update it as soon as we receive more information from the registrar and/or Atari Corp.

[lp]

I would have suggested Atarii-Forum, Ataree-Forum, or Atarie-Forum so its sounds the same or simply remove the dash AtariForum (minimum change). I'm not sure how the law works on domain names, but since a space is not valid do they treat the dash as a space which leaves 'Atari' exposed as a singular word?

[calimero]

You all search for alternative domain names. But these are facts:

1. Atari Inc. ask from STEVE SHICKLES (he work as technician at SIMPLE HELIX hosting company; http://www.linkedin.com/in/steveshickles) to hand over http://www.atari-forum.com domain

(Steve SHICKLES did registered this domain: http://whois.net/whois/atari-forum.com)

2. can he, and will he, agree to transfer domen to some third person (Bruno?) if they are not willing do defend their costumers (Bruno)?

I think that it is best for now to take offline http://www.atari-forum.com domain and access to forum via alternative domain because otherwise you (Bruno), and all we, risking that Steve SHICKLES and SIMPLE HELIX hosting will transfer WILLINGLY (I would also say: illegally!) http://www.atari-forum.com to Atari Inc. (I fully understand SIMPLE HELIX, it is most simpler for them to hand over domain to Atari Inc.!)

Next question, which law apply to domain names and trademark names?
Is it possible that we do not have any single lawyer among Atari ST users?

Atari Inc. can not simple ask and GET http://www.atari-forum.com domain!
Otherwise tomorrow they will ask for http://www.ataristforum.com, http://www.atariiforum.com... or whatever they like.

EDIT: my bad: STEVE SHICKLES is PRESIDENT of SIMPLE HELIX!

[charles]

16/32 bit Atari Computer Forum

this is the new domain name

why anything else.....? that it isn't ?


charlie

[AtariZoll]

I think that name atariusers would be most appropriate. If we put dash after 'atari' there, may trigger another nonsense attack

[dlfrsilver]

You all search for alternative domain names. But these are facts:

1. Atari Inc. ask from STEVE SHICKLES (he work as technician at SIMPLE HELIX hosting company; http://www.linkedin.com/in/steveshickles) to hand over http://www.atari-forum.com domain

(Steve SHICKLES did registered this domain: http://whois.net/whois/atari-forum.com)

2. can he, and will he, agree to transfer domen to some third person (Bruno?) if they are not willing do defend their costumers (Bruno)?

I think that it is best for now to take offline http://www.atari-forum.com domain and access to forum via alternative domain because otherwise you (Bruno), and all we, risking that Steve SHICKLES and SIMPLE HELIX hosting will transfer WILLINGLY (I would also say: illegally!) http://www.atari-forum.com to Atari Inc. (I fully understand SIMPLE HELIX, it is most simpler for them to hand over domain to Atari Inc.!)

Next question, which law apply to domain names and trademark names?
Is it possible that we do not have any single lawyer among Atari ST users?

Atari Inc. can not simple ask and GET http://www.atari-forum.com domain!
Otherwise tomorrow they will ask for http://www.ataristforum.com, http://www.atariiforum.com... or whatever they like.

EDIT: my bad: STEVE SHICKLES is PRESIDENT of SIMPLE HELIX!

I have bought on ebay to Steve Shickles the game Double Dragon III. Do you want me to contact him ?

[dlfrsilver]

EDIT : wrong person

[xtenbombx]

Well on the subject of alternative domain names, IF it comes to that. Why not use something that is unique to ATARI STs/TTs and Falcons?

e.g. (off the top of my head)

http://www.thefujiinthesky.com
http://www.tosbomb.com
http://www.greyplasticboxes.com
http://www.st-tt-falcon.com
http://www.littlegreyboxes.com
http://www.blackandwhitebee.com
http://www.lessthanvga.com
http://www.blackborders.com
http://www.8mhz.com
http://www.aloadofoldtos.com
http://www.gemdayz.com
http://www.ThoseOldSystems.com
http://www.STraighttothepoint.com
http://www.aboxnamedSTeve.com
http://www.flightofthefalcon.com
http://www.bootinggem.com
http://www.thetramielsyndrome.com
http://www.68kdaz.com


...and yes, you can see I'm running dry by the end of that list. If none of that is useful then I hope it inspires some thoughts from some of you.

Richard.

[xtenbombx]

Sad sad news - i'd prefer jackintosh-forum.com as a replacement domain.

Nice! Wouldn't have thought of that.

Richard.

[Stefan jL]

Or... www.thecomputerthathasafastercputhanamiga.com

Although Amiga is another name that could cause legal problem

[troed]

Next question, which law apply to domain names and trademark names?

I have linked and quoted from the applicable rules earlier in this thread. They apply to the registrar since the are accredited by ICANN. If they do not follow agreed upon arbitration rules they are at risk of losing their status as accredited registrar.

I believe they wrongly stated a deadline of 72 hours thinking they had received a copyright infringement takedown notice. I assume Brume has alerted them to the fact that they seemed to act upon that premise in their initial mail - as well as to the rules they have to follow in a domain name dispute.

http://www.icann.org/en/help/dndr/udrp

All registrars must follow the the Uniform Domain-Name Dispute-Resolution Policy


http://www.icann.org/en/help/dndr/udrp/policy

This policy has been adopted by all ICANN-accredited registrars. It has also been adopted by certain managers of country-code top-level domains (e.g., .nu, .tv, .ws).

The policy is between the registrar (or other registration authority in the case of a country-code top-level domain) and its customer (the domain-name holder or registrant). Thus, the policy uses "we" and "our" to refer to the registrar and it uses "you" and "your" to refer to the domain-name holder.

3. Cancellations, Transfers, and Changes. We will cancel, transfer or otherwise make changes to domain name registrations under the following circumstances:
a. subject to the provisions of Paragraph 8, our receipt of written or appropriate electronic instructions from you or your authorized agent to take such action;
b. our receipt of an order from a court or arbitral tribunal, in each case of competent jurisdiction, requiring such action; and/or
c. our receipt of a decision of an Administrative Panel requiring such action in any administrative proceeding to which you were a party and which was conducted under this Policy or a later version of this Policy adopted by ICANN. (See Paragraph 4(i) and (k) below.)

7. Maintaining the Status Quo. We will not cancel, transfer, activate, deactivate, or otherwise change the status of any domain name registration under this Policy except as provided in Paragraph 3 above.

Since none of the items listed under paragraph 3 are in effect the registrar is under obligation not to suspend the domain.

I'd be very interested in hearing what the hosting provider/registrar has to say regarding the above. This is not an optional policy.

/Troed

[FedePede04]

Well on the subject of alternative domain names, IF it comes to that. Why not use something that is unique to ATARI STs/TTs and Falcons?

www.shifters.com
www.mmu-mmu.com

[xtenbombx]

Well on the subject of alternative domain names, IF it comes to that. Why not use something that is unique to ATARI STs/TTs and Falcons?

http://www.shifters.com
http://www.mmu-mmu.com

lol, I like www.shifters.com

[Hippy Dave]

I'm certain that domain name squatters are listening for your favorite suggestions.

[joska]

Or... http://www.thecomputerthathasafastercputhanamiga.com

http://TheForumPreviouslyKnownAsAtari-forum.com

[rmahlert]

I think that name atariusers would be most appropriate. If we put dash after 'atari' there, may trigger another nonsense attack

So I guess I should look out for my domains next..

I have Atari-Users.net, AtariForge.org /.net and Atariforums.com.

This is laywer BS.


Rob

[tenox]

OMG what a total BS. There is no Copyright infringement because atari-forum.com is not selling atari-like products on the market or offering any services that may be wrongfully associated with Atari Inc or using or reproducing (copying) any Atari Inc owned intellectual property. User forums, etc. fall under Fair Use Copyright Exception, but there is no actual use or copying of any copyrighted material so this is a total bullshit.

If anything this might infringe on Atari trademark, but to do so one would need to perform the same activity as the trademark holder, or otherwise impede the holder from doing busies, eg by claiming that we make atari computers. Or confusing users or something like that.

My suggestion would be to form "Atari User Group" and name it "Atari-Forum" so that it has full right to use atari-forum.com

But in reality we probably should get a lawyer engaged to fight it off. Otherwise we are showing to a gunfight with a knife.

[Mathias]

I agree 100% to tenox. This has to be fought off! Why? Because this forum is one of our biggest ressources we got, we are several thousands of people here, and if Atari Inc. gets along with such a silly standard letter, they will go on and stoush several smaller websites and projects! As there is no copyright infringement, and especially atari-forum.com has nothing to do with Atari Inc. IP, there is some responsibility towards the community, even if it may become a little bit exhausting.

We have to fight agains this demands.

• As troed pointed out, Alpha Hosting is wrong. They are not allowed to suspend or terminate the service in general, just because a concern is demanding it! They have to fulfill the agreements with ICANN! So the first step should be to make clear to Alpha hosting that we will not accept it and will not "allow the suspension".

• Subsequetly it should be cleared if Steve Shickles from simplehelix.com is the domain owner, or if he just registered as tech contact. How is he connected to Alpha Hosting, and to atari-forum.com? Will he support us, or as Calimero asked, be willing to transfer the domain (if he is the owner) to Brume, Dal or anybody from atari-forum.com? Best case would be to transfere the domain somewhere outside of the USA.

• Than we should restrain Atari Inc. as there is no copyright infringement at all! There have already bee many arguments why. Additionally they have no rights after we used this domain for 12 (!) years!

• I am willing to donate for a good lawyer to fight this off. And I am sure there are houndrets more of us. If we show a little bit solidarity it will not become a huge problem for single people!

• They have to get that their trademark will be harmed if they start a real law suite, and that the Streisand effect is at our side!

In general I have to say, I do not understand where all the fear comes from. A single simple standard-letter (I expect after a 2 minute "check" frome some office worker), and most of you are thinking about new domains, ... ? It is not a "real disaster" at all, its just a letter to the domain hoster right now, not even any contact to the owner. Please do not act like if a company has some almightiness, especially if they are wrong!

[Dal]

email to us.legal@atari.com and pr@atari.com have both bounced back.

Does anyone have a direct contact at Atari I can try?

[lp]

Perhaps it was a prank. I would think legal action would require a physical printed document sent via registered mail.

[Dal]

Possibly. The domain registrar has already closed the ticket with no further communication - we are looking for clarification here.

We also have a route to Atari PR, so if nothing else, we can get some kind of formal understanding from Atari on our use of their name which should fall under nominal fair use policy (thanks LP).

If this is a prank, then we'll look at the message headers in a bit more detail.