MultiTOS replacement

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brainois
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MultiTOS replacement

Post by brainois »

Hello,

I am currently using MultiTOS, but it is rather slow.
So i would like some advice about a replacement, commercial or not.
WHat is the best MultiTasking environment for Falcon030?

Thanks

François
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Post by jens »

If you have a stock Falcon I'd recommend MagiC due to the fact it is small and fast although it will cost you 100,- Euros I think.
It is available from ASH.

Else you might want to give MiNT a try, which can be found here. I think you will need a replacement AES to be able to use is properly but I'm not sure about that.

There would also be Geneva which is outdated but cheap to have on eBay sometimes. I got the latest version for about five Euros there and I use it with Gemini as it does need an additional desktop. However it will not be as compatible as MagiC or MiNT. Lots of things do work, others won't. I'm still trying that out on one of my Falcons.
Greetings, Jens

Falcon030 - TT030 - Mega/STe - 1040 STf - 520 ST+ - ST-Book - Milan 060
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christos
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Post by christos »

Go freemint! You can follow two routes. The easiest one is easymint. You download and then install the package. Everything you do will be a mouse click away. That will give you a complete working system including filesystems, network, development tools and other really cool stuff. Drawback: You need a cdrom drive or something in order to use it since it's about 250 megs large.
The other route is to download the kernel and all the appropriate packages from the sparemint site and attemt to install them manually.
Now easymint is outdated so you'll still need to upgrade in a manual waybut it is only a matter of copying the correct files to the correct places.
After that you will need to install a replacement AES and there the Atari community has setup a little nad very friendly competition with two AES's. XaAES and MyAES. I must admit I couldn't really setup XaAES when I tried but that has only to do with my using windows and linux for fools for much to long. And now I can't really try it since my falcon's keyboard has failed. Anyway either way you decide to go you can expect the best of support from both authors.
I followed the path between. With only a floppy disk drive to work I used the cripplemint distro and upgraded it's parts from there. Relative links follow:

Sparemint: http://sparemint.atariforge.net/
Easymint and cripplemint : http://atari.st-katharina-apotheke.de/
XaAES : http://xaaes.atariforge.net/
MyAES : http://myaes.lutece.net/
Hope this helps!
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Re: MultiTOS replacement

Post by OL »

brainois wrote:Hello,

I am currently using MultiTOS, but it is rather slow.
So i would like some advice about a replacement, commercial or not.
WHat is the best MultiTasking environment for Falcon030?

Thanks

François
Try MyAES, you can test it without really install it to see. It is faster than multitos for sure, and not need particular version of Mint.
Take version at
http://myaes.lutece.net
then copy myaes folder in C:\gemsys\
edit myaes.cnf file from myaes folder (look documentation)
(even if you not edit it it could run, but you need drag an application on myaes.tos icon)

then launch for your desktop myaes.tos
WARNING: if you use Jinnee as desktop you need Ndialog and more important, do a copy of jinnee folder, remove *.jic from it and launch jinnee from this folder, after this operation
is not need, this is because multitos and myaes not manage icon in same way and Jinnee have a cache for this, if you relaunch fro multitos after it could crash, as it can crash for myaes if you not remove it first.

myaes is notice working with mmu, but there is still some mistake on 0.80 solved in next release (new version in some day's)

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Geneva

Post by lotsofpot »

Geneva and Neodesk are still available new from Gribnif Software directly. Just send them an email. Latest version of Neodesk is 4.04, not sure what latest version of Geneva is? If you go with that option, make sure to get the command line console, which is optional. I agree w/ Jens that it is somewhat outdated. However, I still like it because it is small (unlike mint) and fast (unlike mint) and easy to install (the very opposite of mint). I don't think "Outdated" is a good standard to judge whether software (or hardware) is good or bad. If it was, we probably wouldn't be using Ataris. IMHO.. :) Dave
Atari Falcon CT63 - 95mhz, 16m, 9g, Geneva, Neodesk4/ Atari tt030, ttm195, 14meg, 18.2g dual boot, mint-geneva / Atari megaste 4-80 stock, sm 147, Milan 040 64m, 18.2g hd, mint-xaaes .963, Amiga 1200 stock, Amiga 500 stock, Amiga 4000 Mirage Pro, CyberstormPPC 233 & 68060, 144m ram, 170gb scsi raid set.
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Post by jens »

I will think about getting NeoDesk at some point.

But I really prefer MagiC. It's fast, good looking :mrgreen , can handle long filenames (can Geneva do this?) and perfect with Jinnee. ;)

I just use Geneva on the ST-Book as MagiC won't run on it...
Greetings, Jens

Falcon030 - TT030 - Mega/STe - 1040 STf - 520 ST+ - ST-Book - Milan 060
brainois
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Post by brainois »

Hello,

Keep in mind that I have a "basic" falcon, with no fancy accelarated cards.
Will MagiC run correctly (at least better than MultiTOS)?

Thanks

François
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Post by christos »

To have an adequate freemint system you need 14Mb of ram and a reasonable sized harddisk. Magic will be very happy with 4 Megs.
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Post by lotsofpot »

Good question.. I usually try to stick to the 8+3 format just out of old habit. I tried it and looks like Neodesk limits filenames to 20+3. Paths *I think* can be 256 characters long, maybe 10 or so deep?

Pretty modest by today's standard.. I wonder if this can be changed in code using some of Geneva's built in functions? I will check this out and let you know
Atari Falcon CT63 - 95mhz, 16m, 9g, Geneva, Neodesk4/ Atari tt030, ttm195, 14meg, 18.2g dual boot, mint-geneva / Atari megaste 4-80 stock, sm 147, Milan 040 64m, 18.2g hd, mint-xaaes .963, Amiga 1200 stock, Amiga 500 stock, Amiga 4000 Mirage Pro, CyberstormPPC 233 & 68060, 144m ram, 170gb scsi raid set.
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Post by christos »

It doesn't really matter what neodesk can handle. The important thing is the file system and to have alternative filesystems you need a new os kernel which is something that Geneva is not. As far as I know (and I maybe wrong) Geneva is not an operating system but rather a Multitasking AES which probably adds some kind of extension to the TOS enabling it to multitask. Mint and Magic are more advanced in that respect.
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Post by jens »

brainois wrote:Keep in mind that I have a "basic" falcon, with no fancy accelarated cards.
Will MagiC run correctly (at least better than MultiTOS)?
MagiC will just run fine, even on eight mhz Ataris.
Four megs of ram will be sufficient although it's much nicer to have more ram.

I run MagiC on my 32 mhz Falcon with fourteen megs of ram and on an unaccellerated Falcon with fourteen megs also and it is really fast as long as one does not install Jinnee as desktop.
But as Jinnee is a really, really big improvement over the TOS desktop and still over MagiC it is worth having to wait a bit longer. ;)
Greetings, Jens

Falcon030 - TT030 - Mega/STe - 1040 STf - 520 ST+ - ST-Book - Milan 060
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Post by lotsofpot »

Where does one get an English version of Magic? I think I want to try it on my tt. I went to the ASH link but the site is totally incomprehensible to me. I speak not a lick of German!
Atari Falcon CT63 - 95mhz, 16m, 9g, Geneva, Neodesk4/ Atari tt030, ttm195, 14meg, 18.2g dual boot, mint-geneva / Atari megaste 4-80 stock, sm 147, Milan 040 64m, 18.2g hd, mint-xaaes .963, Amiga 1200 stock, Amiga 500 stock, Amiga 4000 Mirage Pro, CyberstormPPC 233 & 68060, 144m ram, 170gb scsi raid set.
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As far as I know (and I maybe wrong) Geneva is not an operat

Post by lotsofpot »

Correct: Geneva is a multitasking "Application Environment"
Atari Falcon CT63 - 95mhz, 16m, 9g, Geneva, Neodesk4/ Atari tt030, ttm195, 14meg, 18.2g dual boot, mint-geneva / Atari megaste 4-80 stock, sm 147, Milan 040 64m, 18.2g hd, mint-xaaes .963, Amiga 1200 stock, Amiga 500 stock, Amiga 4000 Mirage Pro, CyberstormPPC 233 & 68060, 144m ram, 170gb scsi raid set.
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Post by jens »

Ash software @ europe-shareware.
They seem to have an English version.
Greetings, Jens

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Todays MultiTOS -> FreeMiNT+XaAES

Post by GokMasE »

Hiya,

If the goal it to find a replacement for MultiTOS, it would be a good idea to check out the combination of FreeMiNT+XaAES.

The original MultiTOS was a combination of MiNT and AES 4.0. You can have a very similiar system setup today too, but now MiNT has gone open source and is renamed FreeMiNT. And today the official AES for FreeMiNT is XaAES.

For more information, read about it here:

http://xaaes.atariforge.net/history.php?xaaes=multitos

If you need hints on installation or configuration, just drop us a line at the XaAES website forum :)

Regards,

/Joakim
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Post by brainois »

edit: found the missing file...
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Post by brainois »

Hello,

I installed FreeMiNT (only the kernel), XaAES and TeraDesk.
It looks pretty good.

But I have the following error that freezes the whole system:
pid 1 (AESSYS): Operating system killed
FATAL ERROR. You must reboot the system.

with the following apps:

- AtariWorks: when I quit the application, the error ocurs.
- Lattice 5.6: when trying to open the menu "Tools", the error occured.
- SpeedoGDOS: I installed it and just after TeraDesk is loaded, the error occured. I had to remove it!

Anyone having these problems? Is there a way to solve them?

Thanks
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Post by Paolo »

I think this is -how to say...- normal.
What I mean is that MiNT (and XaAes and Teradesk) is picky with some programs. So sometimes a little tweaking is needed, more often the programs just don't work.

I don't know about SpeedoGDOS, but I assume it is pretty old and maybe MiNT doesn't like it. I use NVDI, and MiNT is happy with it.

Are you doing this with AND without the co-processor?
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Post by brainois »

Both with and without FPU...
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Post by lotsofpot »

I have similar problem when trying to use ghost
Atari Falcon CT63 - 95mhz, 16m, 9g, Geneva, Neodesk4/ Atari tt030, ttm195, 14meg, 18.2g dual boot, mint-geneva / Atari megaste 4-80 stock, sm 147, Milan 040 64m, 18.2g hd, mint-xaaes .963, Amiga 1200 stock, Amiga 500 stock, Amiga 4000 Mirage Pro, CyberstormPPC 233 & 68060, 144m ram, 170gb scsi raid set.
brainois
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Post by brainois »

brainois wrote: But I have the following error that freezes the whole system:
pid 1 (AESSYS): Operating system killed
FATAL ERROR. You must reboot the system.

with the following apps:

- AtariWorks: when I quit the application, the error ocurs.
- Lattice 5.6: when trying to open the menu "Tools", the error occured.
- SpeedoGDOS: I installed it and just after TeraDesk is loaded, the error occured. I had to remove it!
Problem solved by disabling the memory protection feature of FreeMiNT (rename MINT.PRG into MINTNP.PRG)
But I still have a crash with SpeedoGDOS. Guess i will buy NVDI.

François
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Post by brainois »

Hello,

I have another issue: when I try to copy to the HD or delete from the HD folders with many files, i get the following XaAES error:

Code: Select all

pid 4 (desktop):
block_IO.c: abort, no free unit in cache! (cache to small?)
Anyone knows where i can configure this cache?


EDIT: found how to solve this. In the MINT.CFG file, uncomment the line CACHE=100

Regards

François[/b]
Last edited by brainois on Sun May 21, 2006 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Report the problems

Post by GokMasE »

Hiya,

Since the error that you report sounded pretty serious, I think you should consider reporting it. If memory protection is on, then any application that is crashing should *not* crash the OS/AES!

If you are not comfortable with adding a fullblown bugreport to the bugtracker, you can drop a line to the XaAES webforum:

http://www.atariforums.com/list.php?26

Thanks!

Regards,

/Joakim
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Post by brainois »

I would like to put a message on this forum, but I am still waiting for the activation email... I registered yesterday, but did not get the activation email yet...

François
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Post by GokMasE »

Hi Brainois,

There have been some problems with the outgoing emails, but we thought we had that fixed by now. But we have now tried to enable your account manually, so you should be able to login and post now, using the details you used when signing up.

Hope to see you soon!

Regards,

/Joakim
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