RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

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Anima
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RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by Anima »

FYI: I've got hold of a RetroTINK 2X-SCART device today and I have to say that it works fine with my Atari STE. 8)

retrotink.jpg

Firmware version 1.2 a nice "blur effect" has been added which is quite nice for dithered graphics:

Code: Select all

Low-res YPbPr mode for mimicking pixel dithering effects. 
Filter button cycle is now: regular, smoothed, scan-lined, low-resolution, low-resolution/smoothed. 
Warning: low-resolution mode is for experimental purposes only and degrades the sharpness 
(and adds minor ringing artifacts) since it applies CVBS type filtering to the Luma channel.
Will add some screenshot photos or videos as well if there's some interest. ;)
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by Total Eclipse »

Interesting. I was considering buying one for use with my MiST. Good to know it works well with a real ST, it should be fine on a MiST as well.
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by EvilFranky »

Nice Anima, I have been tempted by one of these rather than the expense of an OSSC.

Do you have any screenshots?

Cheers!
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by metalages »

Does it adapt correctly to the fact RGB signals are highter on the ST than the SCART standard or do you need to insert some resistors on the scart cable to have correct black / color levels ?
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by Anima »

EvilFranky wrote: Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:50 pm Nice Anima, I have been tempted by one of these rather than the expense of an OSSC.

Do you have any screenshots?
In fact, the OSSC was also on my wish list for the ultimate experience. The RetroTINK was interesting due to the optional blur effect mode and the compact design.

Tests with different adapters and monitors in the past have shown that the almost perfect image looks quite "wrong". Especially using large screens will result in brick like pixelated images and moving/scrolling parts will be destroyed by the internal TV interlace and image enhancement functions. When you compare all of them with the Atari SC1224 monitor you will know what I mean.

So it seems that RetroTINK is indeed a good compromise to retain the "original experience".

I'll prepare some degas images to make some screenshots later on. ;)
metalages wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:16 am Does it adapt correctly to the fact RGB signals are highter on the ST than the SCART standard or do you need to insert some resistors on the scart cable to have correct black / color levels ?
So far I used a SCART cable which I bought from eBay years ago and it seem that it's still on sale. I am not sure if there are some resistors already built in.
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by tin »

Since I’m using Retrotink 2X Scart and OSSC and had 1 or 2 stabs on getting a somewhat calibrated ST video output I might as well add my 2c here.

In direct comparision -and for my usage profile, which is mostly capturing- I would opt for the OSSC. 95$ (R2XS) vs 135€ [OSSC) is not that much of a difference, esp. regarding the features the OSSC offers. The R2XS is fine in all aspects, but you may need special cables to have a correct picture (esp. regarding brightness, see below). R2XS is a lot more plug-and-play though.
metalages wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:16 am Does it adapt correctly to the fact RGB signals are highter on the ST than the SCART standard or do you need to insert some resistors on the scart cable to have correct black / color levels ?
TLDR; it does not - mind your RGB levels, TFTs and converters are behaving different than CRTs.

Old CRTs have a different resistance on the RGB lines than modern TFTs/Flat screen TVs/converters - so the color signals are „off“ on most modern displays/converters when it comes to brightness/color correctness. (Think of it a bit like: just connecting a CRT to the ST changes the RGB levels, and the ST and the CRT were calibrated to give a good picture using those changed RGB levels).
And that‘s my main caveat with the R2XS - I asked Mike (which does a superb support for his products btw) if the HW is capable of adjusting the RGB resistance like the OSSC is. According to him it isn‘t and it is his firm stance that the cable should do the job. That‘s definitiveley a valid way to see things, but it will also lend to alot more bad captures/overbright Displays (because brightness will be set all the way up on the TFT to get a white, but then the black level is lost) and most users won‘t even know.

So, IF you have a cable with RGB resistors or have none and are not that keen on seeing the correct colours - go get a R2XS. Or get a corrected cable and then get an R2XS. It is a very nice device and it is unbelievably better than any of those cheap 25Hz-stuttery HDMI converters many people use. It has less features than the OSSC, yes, but for most users that‘s of no real concern. Picture quality wise it is comparable if fed with the right RGB levels.

Also: If you have a 15khz capable TFT I strongly recommend getting a good VGA adapter with RGB pots like McSwitch ( https://www.gossuin.be/index.php/shop) or Ube Video Adapter (https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/store2/)
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by metalages »

Thanks for the detailled explanation.
Do you know where we can buy a corrected SCART cable ?
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by Anima »

Here are two screenshots done in a hurry:

Filter off:
filter_off.jpg
Filter on:
filter_on.jpg
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by tin »

metalages wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:54 am Thanks for the detailled explanation.
Do you know where we can buy a corrected SCART cable ?
Unfortunately not, bought my last scart cable ages ago. And I‘ve added resistors or pots to my vga/scart cables myself if needed.
Unfortunately retailers often do not seem to add information on what exactly their cable‘s signal path is like. It’s probably best to ask before buying.
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by alexh »

Interesting, an Amiga user reported this device was not great

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=100692&page=2
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by Anima »

The screenshots have been taken from an old Samsung TV which is arguably not the best for judging the image quality. I'll have to check it on the newer TV later on. Maybe I'll do a video recording as well.
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by AdamK »

What about border removal tricks?
Atari: FireBee, Falcon030 + CT60e + SuperVidel + SvEthlana, TT, 520ST + 4MB ST RAM + 8MB TT RAM + CosmosEx + SC1435, 1040STFM + UltraSatan + SM124, 1040STE 4MB ST RAM + 8MB TT RAM + CosmosEx + NetUSBee + SM144 + SC1224, 65XE + U1MB + VBXE + SIDE2, Jaguar, Lynx II, 2 x Portfolio (HPC-006)

Adam Klobukowski [adamklobukowski@gmail.com]
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by alexh »

I would like the RetroTINK 2x RGB to be good for Amiga/ST(e) because they are half the price of an OSSC (£50 vs £100). Not to mention the Rad2x form factor is very nice. I had considered getting a Rad2x and making an internal HDMI for my MegaSTe until I read the Amiga review
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by tin »

alexh wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:12 pm£50
That‘d be a steal for a R2XS indeed - who‘s your retailer?
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by Anima »

AdamK wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:35 am What about border removal tricks?
The second demo part of E605 ("overscan shaking earth") works.

More screenshots/videos incoming. ;)
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by Anima »

Here's a video showing the standard ("filter off"):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtNCkcn9pOU

And another with the activated filter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k-KdSumAaw
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by Total Eclipse »

tin wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:25 pm
alexh wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:12 pm£50
That‘d be a steal for a R2XS indeed - who‘s your retailer?
Seconded.

I'm struggling to find one for less than about £90
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by EvilFranky »

Anima wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:18 pm Here's a video showing the standard ("filter off"):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtNCkcn9pOU

And another with the activated filter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k-KdSumAaw
Thanks Anima :cheers:
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by alexh »

Total Eclipse wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:34 pm
tin wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:25 pm
alexh wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:12 pm£50
That‘d be a steal for a R2XS indeed - who‘s your retailer?
Seconded.

I'm struggling to find one for less than about £90
Retrogaming cables, £47. They are not the SCART variant, but the dedicated cable variant called Rad2x but it is the same hardware. I was going to just make an adapter cable for the Megadrive one, or whip off the end of the cable and put in a 13-pin DIN

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/RAD2X-CABLES

However I think there has been a shift in the price of the OSSC to about £68 and I'd recommend that instead. (P.S. I've not bought from this vendor)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000986377853.html
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by Anima »

alexh wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:43 pm However I think there has been a shift in the price of the OSSC to about £68 and I'd recommend that instead. (P.S. I've not bought from this vendor)
Probably a good catch.

However, you should be aware of this: https://videogameperfection.com/2019/04 ... leg-osscs/

I am not sure if the quality of those clones has improved since.
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by tin »

alexh wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:43 pm
Retrogaming cables, £47. They are not the SCART variant, but the dedicated cable variant called Rad2x but it is the same hardware. I was going to just make an adapter cable for the Megadrive one, or whip off the end of the cable and put in a 13-pin DIN

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/RAD2X-CABLES
Nice find, thanks!
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by Total Eclipse »

alexh wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:43 pm Retrogaming cables, £47. They are not the SCART variant, but the dedicated cable variant called Rad2x but it is the same hardware. I was going to just make an adapter cable for the Megadrive one, or whip off the end of the cable and put in a 13-pin DIN

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/RAD2X-CABLES

However I think there has been a shift in the price of the OSSC to about £68 and I'd recommend that instead. (P.S. I've not bought from this vendor)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000986377853.html
Nice one. Unfortunately the Rad2X isn't any use to me - I've got too many things that I'd want to connect to make that one cost effective, including my MiST.

Incredible price on the OSSC though. I'd be tempted, though it's a tough call whether the (presumably) shoddy cheap build quality justifies the cost saving over buying from somewhere like VGP or Kaico.
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Re: RetroTINK 2X-SCART with Atari STE

Post by Total Eclipse »

alexh wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:40 pm Interesting, an Amiga user reported this device was not great

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=100692&page=2
It's an interesting, though slightly odd, review.

I was under the impression that the retrotink devices, along with the OSSC,, introduced a delay that was literally measured in a handful of scan lines. Neither device, as far as I'm aware, implements a frame buffer, so I don't understand how this can introduce noticeable lag?
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