Falcon's 16bit bus myth - 32bit vs 16bit war

[qq1975b]

CPU+FastRam
I have 1xApollo 1230 MKIII that has a 68EC030 at 40MHZ and a 68882 at 40MHZ + 32 MB 72pin RAM as FastRAM (this is the one I can test)

[evil]

Hi,
I don't know why A1200 is faster than the 40000 (with the 68EC020 config too)...maybe the OS? In the Amiga 1200 is WB3.1 and in Amiga 4000 WB3.9...

I remember this from the old days that A4k had slower chip access than A1200, the reasoning was that it had asynchron access to chipram and lost speed from that. Had the CPU been at 28 MHz instead of 25 it wouldn't have suffered.

I have no idea if that's actually true, but that was the theory back then

[qq1975b]

This evening the A600.
The Falcon has to wait...I have some problems with it and I have to install the Magnum card on the other Falcon I have.

[qq1975b]

Here are the results:

Plain Falcon 4MB with 68882+Magnum 8MB FastRAM (ST High video mode and NemBench 2.1). ALT key used (loaded from FDD and only Magnum drivers loaded):

Falcon 030 Magnum.jpg

Plain A600 + 4MB FastRam:

A600 chip.jpg

The FastRAM is a board socketed directly to the 68000. The bandwith limit seems to be the same for chip and fast ram....

A600 fast.jpg

The TT will follow soon...Any other needed?

[evil]

Here are the results:
Plain Falcon 4MB with 68882+Magnum 8MB FastRAM (ST High video mode and NemBench 2.1). ALT key used (loaded from FDD and only Magnum drivers loaded):

I've tested on my Falcon 060 as well (100 MHz, ST-HIGH on VGA):

Code: Select all

NemBench v2.1 - precision CPU/FPU profiler.

Integer multiply (16bit)     -> 48.761 Mips (~7954%)
Integer divide (16bit)       -> 4.452 Mips (~1229%)
Linear (stalled) integer     -> 97.523 Mips (~1225%)
Interleaved (piped) integer  -> 195.047 Mips (~2450%)

Float multiply (64bit)       -> 32.768 MegaFlops (~12365%)
Float divide (64bit)         -> 2.694 MegaFlops (~1557%)
Linear (stalled) float       -> 48.188 MegaFlops (~9040%)
Interleaved (piped) float    -> 48.188 MegaFlops (~9057%)

16bit read (100% hit)        -> 192.307 MByte/sec (~2449%)
16bit write (100% hit)       -> 192.307 MByte/sec (~3196%)
32bit read (100% hit)        -> 384.615 MByte/sec (~2450%)
32bit write (100% hit)       -> 384.615 MByte/sec (~5769%)

Linear 32bit read (ST-Ram)   -> 5.784 MByte/sec (~108%)
Linear 32bit write (ST-Ram)  -> 9.694 MByte/sec (~150%)
Linear 32bit copy (ST-Ram)   -> 3.644 MByte/sec (~112%)

Linear 32bit read (FastRAM)  -> 95.325 MByte/sec (~1793%)
Linear 32bit write (FastRAM) -> 94.296 MByte/sec (~1461%)
Linear 32bit copy (FastRAM)  -> 37.991 MByte/sec (~1176%)

Linear burst copy (ST-Ram)   -> 3.538 MByte/sec (~109%)
Linear burst copy (FastRAM)  -> 46.811 MByte/sec (~1450%)
Linear burst copy (ST->Fast) -> 5.434 MByte/sec (~168%)
Linear burst copy (Fast->ST) -> 8.606 MByte/sec (~266%)

So to sum up what we have so far:

Code: Select all

                                        Read LW (MB/s)   Write LW (MB/s)
Falcon 030/16, ST-ram                            5.345             6.488
Falcon 030/16, Magnum Fastram                    5.704             6.898
Falcon 060/100, ST-ram                           5.784             9.694
Falcon 060/100, Fastram                         95.325            94.296
Stacy PAK030, ST-ram                             2.622             3.573
Amiga 600, Fastram                               2.300             2.300
Amiga 600, Chipram                               2.200             2.300
Amiga 1200, 030/40, Chipram                      7.000             6.900
Amiga 1200, 020/14, Chipram                      4.500             6.900
Amiga 4000, 030/25, Chipram                      3.100             4.300
Amiga 4000, 030/25, Fastram                     12.100            16.100
Amiga 4000, 060/50, Fastram                     46.100            33.500

Quite a few missing
TT030 ST-ram+TT-ram, Centurbo 2a ST-ram+Fastram, Centurbo 2b ST-ram+Fastram, Mighty Sonic ST-ram+Fastram, Afterburner 040 ST-ram+Fastram, Falcon FX ST-ram+Fastram, PAK030 Fastram, Medusa 040 ST-ram, Hades 040 ST-ram, Hades 060 ST-ram, Milan 040 ST-ram, Milan 060 ST-ram, then tons of Falcon BUS/CPU speeders.

[Cyprian]

Here are some other figures:

TT from here http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=17970

Code: Select all

                                            Read LW (MB/s)   Write LW (MB/s)
    TT 030 32MHz, ST-ram                             7.867             7.867
    TT 030 32MHz, Fastram                           12.615            15.772
    TT 030 48MHz, ST-ram                             7.972             7.848
    TT 030 48MHz, Fastram                           15.791            20.954

Falcon from here http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=23543

Code: Select all

2colors 25MHz BUS:
    Falcon 060/100, ST-ram                           8.600            13.884
    Falcon 060/100, Fastram                        104.025           103.206

HiColor 25MHz BUS:
    Falcon 060/100, ST-ram                           7.162            11.681
    Falcon 060/100, Fastram                        104.439           103.206

CPU+FastRam
I have 1xApollo 1230 MKIII that has a 68EC030 at 40MHZ and a 68882 at 40MHZ + 32 MB 72pin RAM as FastRAM (this is the one I can test)

yes, please do that test

[qq1975b]

CPU+FastRam
I have 1xApollo 1230 MKIII that has a 68EC030 at 40MHZ and a 68882 at 40MHZ + 32 MB 72pin RAM as FastRAM (this is the one I can test)

yes, please do that test

Here it is:
no MMU

IMG_1373.JPG

I understand that a plain TT is not needed.

[Cyprian]

you can do the test for TT but I guess your figures will be similar to: http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=17970

CPU+FastRam
I have 1xApollo 1230 MKIII that has a 68EC030 at 40MHZ and a 68882 at 40MHZ + 32 MB 72pin RAM as FastRAM (this is the one I can test)

yes, please do that test

Here it is:
no MMU

impressive figures, what kind of memory do you use? I need them in my TT

[qq1975b]

Yes, this A1200 is fast. Has a 32 MB 72 pin SIMM on the accelerator board.
I will test the TT. I have installed 60ns simm modules but they are 30 Pin. We will see...

[Rustynutt]

Only a 5 year old topic, currently relevant in the Eagle Sonic topic

So here's the pudding about the Magnum memory speed.

What if, hardware gurus, the Eagle Sonic is installed atop the Magnum card? It's nicely designed for a second card. Would that allow full bus memory transfers?

Here are the results:

Plain Falcon 4MB with 68882+Magnum 8MB FastRAM (ST High video mode and NemBench 2.1). ALT key used (loaded from FDD and only Magnum drivers loaded):

Falcon 030 Magnum.jpg

Plain A600 + 4MB FastRam:

A600 chip.jpg

The FastRAM is a board socketed directly to the 68000. The bandwith limit seems to be the same for chip and fast ram....
A600 fast.jpg


The TT will follow soon...Any other needed?

[ctirad]

No, that is impossible. While the the both cards would be interconnected by the same 16bit expansion bus, there is no way how they could run on any higher speed.

[mikro]

Simple rule of thumb: if it doesn't have a CPU and memory on the same expansion card, it can't have 32-bit memory access. The only exception here is the CT2A which does have its own 32-bit expansion connector but hey, it already has its own CPU and memory onboard. :)

[mlynn1974]

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but it would seem to me that the purest Falcon would be a stock 68030 with the option to have a 32-bit data bus.
This may cause considerable ST backwards incompatibility and perhaps this is why it wasn't done as standard.

However, and correct me if I'm incorrect, surely using emulation we could at least see how such a machine would have looked and performed?
Could Hatari be configured to simulate a 32-bit data bus?

How would such a change have affected games like BadMood or Quake or True Color mode? Just a thought.