Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

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mbricout
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Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by mbricout »

Hello,

I own a completely stock Falcon 030, still working perfectly except for the dead RTC clock. I am good with a soldering iron and I have purchased a replacement already, however the thought of damaging my Falcon while replacing the chip has stopped me from attempting the repair.

I am wondering if there is any risk in leaving the now 28 years old Dallas chip soldered to the motherboard. I understand that it has in internal button battery. Is there any risk of it eventually leaking and damaging the board?
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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by dhedberg »

The battery is well encapsulated. No need to worry. To make your Falcon030 behave with a dead NVRAM, see the bottom of this page:
http://nb.atari.org/main.php?page=links

With the software there, in combination with a CosmosEx or something else that can set the date and time automatically during boot, there's really no need to replace the Dallas chip.
Last edited by dhedberg on Fri May 07, 2021 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by neanderthal »

Yeah,the battery inside is actually same style as those in most 'modern' stuff,no leaking or such.Specially inside that resin that they used.You just loose clock and any special settings in between real cold-boots.

Or did one get wonky time-stamping on the go?..Quess dhedberg:s stuff fixes that ;)
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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by neanderthal »

And btw,if you are into hardcore fixing stuff you can actually use the clockchip without replacing it.The falcy mobo is a bit of b*tch to desolder stuff from.I did that on my other falcon just cause of the desoldering issue..lol
Its a old pc-hack ,same clock on many falcons,some later have the other chip that has to be dealt differently.
However this is more for the folks used to a dremel and such,the top of the combel is a good place for the battery since chip actually runs pretty cool.
https://classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2 ... y-chip.htm
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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by mbricout »

Thanks a bunch for all the answers and for the very useful links. I guess I will procrastinate a couple more years on replacing that chip. I will probably invest in a desoldering pump first.

Up to now I've been storing the Falcon upside down inside its original box to limit the risk of battery acid falling onto the motherboard. So silly that chip is not in a socket :?.
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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by Mark_G »

Is this link dead ?

Software for dead NVRAM
https://atarimusic.exxoshost.co.uk/inde ... cle&id=190
Page describing the problems caused by a flat battery in the Falcon030 NVRAM and provides a software solution for those that do not want to replace the NVRAM.

Mark
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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by dhedberg »

Mark_G wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 7:06 am Is this link dead ?

Software for dead NVRAM
https://atarimusic.exxoshost.co.uk/inde ... cle&id=190
Page describing the problems caused by a flat battery in the Falcon030 NVRAM and provides a software solution for those that do not want to replace the NVRAM.
Yes, it seems to be dead indeed. Exxos used to host a copy of this site. The original site went offline a while back. I guess you may contact Exxos to see if he's able to put it back online again.

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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by simonsunnyboy »

If I load the site with a browser that let's you past the SSL error, you get a 404.
I also tried googling but couldn't locate the associated information.

I'd love a patch for plain TOS that does not need to run a RAM copy.
As long as the Falcon boots, running FreeMint resolves clock problems. You can set the clock within Freemint and it is kept until power-off. Under TOS time and date are screwed each time you return to the desktop.
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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by dhedberg »

The page essentially described the issues with a dead NVRAM and provided links to software that would solve the issues:
- ROMSPEED v3.1, copies TOS into RAM.
- KEEPTIME v1.0, patches TOS in RAM to deal with the issues caused by a dead NVRAM.
- NVRam 1.2.9, lets you save a NVRAM configuration on the bootsector of a floppy disk. When booting the computer it will auto configure NVRAM each time.

ROMSPEED and KEEPTIME are bundled with the excellent SetTime utility by YesCrew: http://yescrew.atari.org/eng/index_e.htm
It will remember the last set time and date and set it for you during the boot, or you can change it if you press a key.

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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by simonsunnyboy »

So this is the solution i know, is there a way to make KEEPTIME and/or its actual functionality (a patch to XBIOS I assume) into a classic TSR instead?

Which routines are affected? could the ones from EmuTOS be used to create such a TSR?
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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by dhedberg »

simonsunnyboy wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 2:04 pm So this is the solution i know, is there a way to make KEEPTIME and/or its actual functionality (a patch to XBIOS I assume) into a classic TSR instead?

Which routines are affected? could the ones from EmuTOS be used to create such a TSR?
EmuTOS could implement XBIOS Gettime() differently (in a more intelligent way) so it doesn't go nuts (reset the time/date) on a dead battery. If done properly there would be no need to patch anything.
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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by simonsunnyboy »

I guess that is already the case but I want some TSR for use with the original TOS.
I can boot EmuTOS ofcourse but then I am back at the "TOS from RAM" point.
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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by neanderthal »

simonsunnyboy wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:15 pm I guess that is already the case but I want some TSR for use with the original TOS.
I can boot EmuTOS ofcourse but then I am back at the "TOS from RAM" point.
Hmm,,should be doable?,I did some sort of crude y2k hack and intercepted clock handler on a old STE of mine just cause if even set clock properly which is okay for TOS,but the ikbd->system handler messed it up and one wound up with a weird year even if ikbd had 00 in it.I'm quessing that falcon reads Nvram clock all the time instead,maybe that can be raw TOS intercepted?
Or is the routine totally embedded maybe?
No source in the keeptime thingy.Pity.
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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by mikro »

I'm afraid that the reason why it patches TOS directly is that it is the open/read file (!) functions which reset the clock. So you would need to write your own Fopen() implementation which does not harm the clock the way it does now.
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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by stormy »

Falcon CT60e 060 - 256mb ram - Phantom bus and DSP accelerated // Atari TT - Thunder and Storm IDE 64mb ram - Lightning VME - USB LAN - ATI Mach64 2mb
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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by simonsunnyboy »

mikro wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:53 am I'm afraid that the reason why it patches TOS directly is that it is the open/read file (!) functions which reset the clock. So you would need to write your own Fopen() implementation which does not harm the clock the way it does now.
Thanks for this explanation. Makes it a very ugly thing though. In that case I will stick to run EmuTOS or FreeMint from my harddisk to fix that.
I only need plain TOS for games and demos, the clock is not relevant there.

Otoh, why not call the original Fopen() first and then afterwards run the clock patches?
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Re: Any risk in not removing the dead Dallas chip from the Falcon?

Post by simonsunnyboy »

Side note: I have a replacement module from Centurion tech, I just need a soldering wizard to mount it. My skills are too limited.
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