2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

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dhedberg
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2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by dhedberg »

Hi,

I've made a small little SCSI adapter that allows 3.5" SCSI devices (with 50-pin connectors), such as the CosmosEx, to be connected to the internal 40-pin SCSI cable of C-Lab Falcons. It will also work with an Atari Falcon030 computer with the internal SCSI modification done to it.
The C-Lab Falcon came with an internal 2.5" SCSI HDD which had a 40-pin SCSI connector. SCSI devices with these connectors are pretty rare and hard to find today so a conversion to the more common 50-pin connector gives you a lot more freedom. The adapter is plug-and-play, just plug it into the SCSI device and off you go.

I never planned to sell these but as I have a few spare PCBs and with the CosmosEx 3.0 around the corner I figured there may be more people interested.

If you're interested, I can provide any of the following:

A) Soldered plug-and-play terminator, approx. 20 EUR.
B) PCB + parts as a DIY kit, approx. 10 EUR.
C) PCB only, 5 EUR.

Shipping is not included in the prices but will be fairly cheap unless you want insurance/tracking. Depending on the demand I may or may not build more units. The bare PCB I can send immediately.

You may also be interested in the internal SCSI terminator for the Falcon:
http://atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=37537

Thanks,
Daniel
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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by alienkidmj12 »

good idea, another idea would be to add an additional 50 pin (above the 40 pin ide cable header) header incase you also want to chain onto an internal hd :) not just the cosmos :)

i made a cable for that purpose, but looking for something neater which would accomodate my hd also :)

dave

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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by dhedberg »

Hmm. A ribbon cable with three contacts are usually how you do it.
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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by alienkidmj12 »

so you have to connect this to a ribbon cable of 50 pins instead of cosmos to do that :) i have just thinking of a thru port...nevermind :)

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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by Ektus »

Just for reference: There's also (as seen on https://forum.atari-home.de/index.php/t ... #msg244555) a design for an internal SCSI adapter to directly go to standard 50-pin. They haven't been tested yet, though :-(
They do include a second row of holes to install the internal terminators.

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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by dhedberg »

alienkidmj12 wrote:so you have to connect this to a ribbon cable of 50 pins instead of cosmos to do that :) i have just thinking of a thru port...nevermind :)
Ah, another 3.5" device? How much space do you have in your Falcon? ;-)
I thought you meant that you wanted to keep the original 2.5" SCSI HDD of the C-Lab Falcon.
A thru port would mean extra space. This adapter fits right on the back of the CosmosEx and is about the same height (a little bit shorter). A thru port would have made it too tall I'm afraid.
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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by dhedberg »

Ektus wrote:Just for reference: There's also (as seen on https://forum.atari-home.de/index.php/t ... #msg244555) a design for an internal SCSI adapter to directly go to standard 50-pin. They haven't been tested yet, though :-(
They do include a second row of holes to install the internal terminators.
How does that work? The first and last device should be terminated. Those resistor packs in the link above would have to be de-soldered/removed from the board if you attached an internal SCSI device, as then the termination should be after that device. If they are active with no device connected, they will interfere when you connect a device as they would sit between the SCSI host and the SCSI device.
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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by Ektus »

That should work just like the adapter for the 2,5" device. In case only the internal chain is used, the terminators can be placed on the adapter. In case the external port shall remain usable, remove the resistor array and add an external terminator instead. In my experience, SCSI is quite tolerant for short extensions beyond the terminator, so leaving the internal resistors in place and adding a short external chain might work, too.

I'm going to try and test it in one of my falcons to get rid of the external loop to get SCSI back into the tower case. Some day, if I find time and motivation to disassemble the machine and solder in the adapter.
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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by dhedberg »

This is what I mean:

Original Falcon030: [Terminator on motherboard <-> Host <-> Ext. port <-> (Device with termination)]

C-Lab Falcon with my internal terminator: [Terminator <-> Host <-> Ext. port <-> (Device with termination)]
C-Lab Falcon with an internal device: [Int. device with terminator <-> Host <-> Ext. port <-> (Device with termination)

The Tuxie/Lynxman board without an internal device: [Terminator on board <-> Host <-> Ext. port <-> (Device with termination)]
The Tuxie/Lynxman with an internal device: [Int. device with terminator <-> Terminator on board <-> Host <-> Ext. port <-> (Device with terminator)]

In the last case it seems to me that the termination resistors on the board could become a problem as they sit between the host and the internal device?
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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by Ektus »

dhedberg wrote:This is what I mean:

The Tuxie/Lynxman with an internal device: [Int. device with terminator <-> Terminator on board <-> Host <-> Ext. port <-> (Device with terminator)]

In the last case it seems to me that the termination resistors on the board could become a problem as they sit between the host and the internal device?
Yes, this might cause trouble as there would be three terminators involved. Might or might not work. Depends on devices, cable length and quality, ...

Might be solved by using a short external cable without termination at the end, but strictly speaking isn't legal. Therefore, I've got an external terminator on order and will likely omit the ones on the adapter. OTOH, I haven't attached external devices in ages, so might stick with the internal chain anyway.
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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by alienkidmj12 »

I have an internal 2.5" sca 80 pin scsi (with 50 pin adapter) in the standard 2.5 holder. i wanted this and the cosmos, but it seems the cables are a bit messy. need some good solution to allow 2 internal 50 pin devices ;) i do not like it when messy cables spoil the nice looking asthetics of the falcon 030 :)

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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by dhedberg »

You could achieve this by putting two connectors on the 40-pin cable and then use two of my 40 to 50 pin adapters, one for the CosmosEx and one for the other device. ;-)
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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by MiggyMog »

One of those would be useful as I have the falcon version of cosmosex, how much are you selling them for? (although my bigger problem currently is that falcon keyboard connector is not working since trying to use the IKBD injector)
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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by MiggyMog »

One of those would be useful as I have the falcon version of cosmosex, how much are you selling them for? (although my bigger problem currently is that falcon keyboard connector is not working since trying to use the IKBD injector :? )
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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by dhedberg »

MiggyMog wrote:One of those would be useful as I have the falcon version of cosmosex, how much are you selling them for? (although my bigger problem currently is that falcon keyboard connector is not working since trying to use the IKBD injector :? )
PM sent. Do you want the internal terminator as well? More information here: http://atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=37537
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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by dhedberg »

Still have a few left of these if anyone's interested.
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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by mikro »

dhedberg wrote:Original Falcon030: [Terminator on motherboard <-> Host <-> Ext. port <-> (Device with termination)]

C-Lab Falcon with an internal device: [Int. device with terminator <-> Host <-> Ext. port <-> (Device with termination)
Does C-Lab board really work like that? I mean, when I look at the original MK2 board:
C-LAB_Falcon_030_Interny_SCSI_kabel_Vrch_konektora-768x368.png
That looks pretty much like the Lynxman/Tuxie board above, i.e. it takes SCSI signals, immediatelly terminates them and only after that it routes them to the internal 40-pin connector.
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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by joska »

My MK2 board does not have terminators.
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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by dhedberg »

That looks like a patched up MK-II board? My MK-II SCSI piggy back adapter does not have the resistor packs. It may or may not work. I don't see why you would need/want to have a termination in the middle of the SCSI bus?

Perhaps the added resistor packs are supposed to compensate for the lack of termination on the external port, when only the internal port is used? Does it work if you connect an external device as well?
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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by mikro »

dhedberg wrote:That looks like a patched up MK-II board? My MK-II SCSI piggy back adapter does not have the resistor packs. It may or may not work. I don't see why you would need/want to have a termination in the middle of the SCSI bus?

Perhaps the added resistor packs are supposed to compensate for the lack of termination on the external port, when only the internal port is used? Does it work if you connect an external device as well?
Interesting, I wonder where they come from then. But at least it is consistent with what I have thought so far.

I can't test myself, it isn't my MK2.

One question, though: if those resistor packs are in place but there are not powered, can they be considered as not active i.e. harmless? I'm thinking whether there isn't a way to make this a switch - i.e. an internal device present => cut +5V from pin 8 of the pack, internal device removed => connect +5V to the pack again.

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Re: 2.5" to 3.5" adapter for the (C-Lab) Falcon

Post by Rustynutt »

I'd been thinking terminating the MKX card, but that reasoning was looking at how Adaptec cards are built. The controller sets in the middle of the internal and external bus, so you don't need an external terminator if only an internal device is used.
On the Falcon, adding the internal connection is just like extending the external chain.
Might be prudent (SCSI science :)) to keep track of the internal cable length, and ensure the external is a bit longer. My reasoning anyway after dinking with the MKX.

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