STE microwire mixer setting confusion

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AtariZoll
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STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by AtariZoll »

According to diverse literature - Atari Profibuch, Atari STE Fanpage, to set audio mixer in STE in mode DMA full volume and PSG -12 db volume you need to write $400 to $FF8922 port (in special way, but will not go in it now) .
2 lowest bits determine mode: 00 is mentioned, with 12 db lower PSG volume, 01 is with PSG at full volume, and 10 is with PSG muted.
However, I can not achieve PSG at -12db mode - when use 00 setting PSG is muted - not present. I tried all modes, but all what getting is PSG at full level or no PSG audio.
Note: this is not emulated properly in Steem. Likely OK in Hatari.
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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by Zamuel_a »

I tried to make this work in my Giana Sisters game but could never make it work. From the disscussion that time, the conclusion is that this is NOT possible to do on a real STE at all. This is a bug in the hardware or just that the specs are written before the release of the machine. So you can't change the output volume like this.
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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by Cyprian »

AtariZoll wrote:According to diverse literature - Atari Profibuch, Atari STE Fanpage, to set audio mixer in STE in mode DMA full volume and PSG -12 db volume you need to write $400 to $FF8922 port (in special way, but will not go in it now) .
2 lowest bits determine mode: 00 is mentioned, with 12 db lower PSG volume, 01 is with PSG at full volume, and 10 is with PSG muted.
However, I can not achieve PSG at -12db mode - when use 00 setting PSG is muted - not present. I tried all modes, but all what getting is PSG at full level or no PSG audio.
Note: this is not emulated properly in Steem. Likely OK in Hatari.
do you mean "YM -12dB mixing"? Some ago we investigated that and outcome was that there is no LMC mode "YM -12dB mixing". That mode is just a myth (or an urban legend):
http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 50#p252366
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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by AtariZoll »

Thanx guys. Unfortunately, it is case of wrong data in multiple literature, maybe based on bad Atari specs in early development stage.
The problem is that I added DMA music to game, but sound effects are too loud in compare to it - even if it is normalized.
So, only way is to find volume settings for PSG audio, and lower them. What works not if channel volume is controlled by envelope ...
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by Zamuel_a »

I had the same problem in my Giana Sisters game. The PSG music was much highter than the DMA sound effects. I just lowered the PSG volume and it worked fine.
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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by AtariZoll »

Strange that it works not.
STEmicrw.png
I looked my STE, and all components exist. Obviously R531 and R530 do lowering of amplitude, and then inputs on pins 25 and 5 are used, while at full PSG volume pins 26 and 4 are used. Why it works not is unclear ... Perhaps is worth to shortcut R531 and listen will then PSG appear. If not, then something is wrong around switching on inputs of pins 5 & 25 .
Looking schematic better: it makes no sense at all 8O . Capacitors C535 and C536 kill all sound in divider . Serious megastupid HW bug ????? Unbelievable ! Same in Mega STE ..
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Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by exxos »

https://www.engineering.uiowa.edu/sites ... 010789.pdf

Maybe having a look at the datasheet of the chip may help. Could just be LMC registers are not being set correctly. If you can send serial data direct yourself via software there shouldn't be any problems. I guess TOS controls the chip but maybe TOS routines are not correct when setting values in RAM ?
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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by AtariZoll »

I tried diverse code and values in Microwire setting. Looked it's datasheet too.
Sound volume divider is just bad. Apparently 2 resistors between Gnd and 8.2 V serve to hold inputs at half voltage. 2 capacitors filter it. There should be one more resistor in row with R521, about 15K, which one pin would go to capacitors, and other to R521 and to LMC pins 25 and 5. R528 has no sense. I will try it in next days, when catch some time.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by exxos »

The volume looks to be set internally on the IC via serial commands, not via resistors ?
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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by AtariZoll »

There is only master volume control . Can not control input volumes separately - in other words, it is not mixer chip. You can only switch on and off inputs. Was intended for televisions in first place. Look block diagram.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by exxos »

What about the fader functions ?

PIN9, 21 DAC inputs on SELECT lines (not sure why as not familiar with that chip)

AUDIOS PSG Audio on PIn4 etc, LEFT INPUT 1,2, RIGHT INPUT 1,2, hard to read the diagram, not sure why it feed same signal into 2 different input. So REAR is not used. But it seems unclear on the SELECT lines, I assume the digital data there is the actual audio lines you are using ? That STE circuit I really do not understand, it just seems pointless to even have the LMC ?!
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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by AtariZoll »

Fade is very useful by televisions - to avoid noise by channel switch.
You are partially right. LMC is not much useful. What works is bass and treble setting, and master volume - later not much useful in fact. But it was cheap.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by Hippy Dave »

AtariZoll wrote:Strange that it works not.
STEmicrw.png
I looked my STE, and all components exist. Obviously R531 and R530 do lowering of amplitude, and then inputs on pins 25 and 5 are used, while at full PSG volume pins 26 and 4 are used. Why it works not is unclear ... Perhaps is worth to shortcut R531 and listen will then PSG appear. If not, then something is wrong around switching on inputs of pins 5 & 25 .
Looking schematic better: it makes no sense at all 8O . Capacitors C535 and C536 kill all sound in divider . Serious megastupid HW bug ????? Unbelievable ! Same in Mega STE ..
The purpose of this filtered channel is so that you can switch to/from this silent channel without a 'pop' sound. It looks like the -12dB channel was never implemented.

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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by BoNuS »

Finnaly somebody else seems to have this problem. I already asked several people abut this problem and they then
all say it is simple. But when I ask how what when or how it all seems to stop.
I have the same problem with my game BeGEMeD, on the Falcon all is okay samples and YM music perfect in line.
But on the STE and TT the music is so loud that I can barely can hear the samples :( And I can't find a solution
how to change the volume of the music.

I'm still thinking of making the music only on 1/2 of the volume to fix the problem. Okat you have to turn
up the total volume a bit but then it should be okay. But I didn't made the music ans also I don't
have much understanding of for expl. Maximizer to do so...

So if (finally) someone could come up with THE solution I would be a very happy men (without
have to resolder my machine that is) ;)
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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by AtariZoll »

Hippy Dave wrote:...
The purpose of this filtered channel is so that you can switch to/from this silent channel without a 'pop' sound. It looks like the -12dB channel was never implemented.
I don't agree. Circuit is just stupid. I fixed problem, and have PSG level lowered now - see in HW section. Did not hear any pop sound. Other problem is that even setting bits are swapped in docs - you need %10 to get silenced PSG, and not %01 :mrgreen:
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by calimero »

you should paste a link :)

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27452

so it is hardware problem? there is no way to fix it in software :(
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Re: STE microwire mixer setting confusion

Post by AtariZoll »

calimero wrote:you should paste a link :)

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27452

so it is hardware problem? there is no way to fix it in software :(
Thanx for link.
Not possible to fix in SW. It is just bad design. As Zamuel and BoNuS pointed too, can do lowering PSG level in SW, but that lowers quality too, and may be lot of work to mode some existing SW.
Atari should put there real mixer chip, where could control separately PSG and DMA volume. Or at least making volumes of 2 at close level. I really can't get how this went into Mega STE too. Nobody tested it in Atari ?
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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