RGB2HDMI for ST

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PeterS
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by PeterS »

Hi

Mine has just arrived.

Now I have to work out his it fits in the STfm (rev C I think). I assumed it went on the shifter but I'm not sure now.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by stormy »

PeterS wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:25 am Hi

Mine has just arrived.

Now I have to work out his it fits in the STfm (rev C I think). I assumed it went on the shifter but I'm not sure now.
There is a shifter PCB available but I am guessing this isn't part of what pixel has put together. You might want to find the files for it on the pi rgb GitHub and order some PCBs.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by PeterS »

Over ordered a rasp pi with pins on it and the hdmi cable.
I forgot the 16 wire ribbon cable.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by pixelk »

If I don't hear from BikerBob before Monday, the next in line will be able to confirm if he's still interested.
Cerberus wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:10 pm Can you check my work before I proceed? Pin header sandwiched on the 21-40 side of what I believe is the “Shifter” and pin-header on the STF modulator pins… this is all I should need to hook up the 12-but issue 4 RGB2HDMI waiting patiently at right? I ask because the other photos in this thread don’t show this ST variant.
If you make a full hi-res photo from your motherboard (where we can read the component labels) I may be able to guide you. If not, there are some direction in this thread
stormy wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:35 am
PeterS wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:25 am Hi

Mine has just arrived.

Now I have to work out his it fits in the STfm (rev C I think). I assumed it went on the shifter but I'm not sure now.
There is a shifter PCB available but I am guessing this isn't part of what pixel has put together. You might want to find the files for it on the pi rgb GitHub and order some PCBs.
I still have some blank shifter PCBs available, but no chips to fit on them (I ordered the wrong ones before realising I didn't need them for my STEs).
520 STe C398789-001 DMA + 4Mo + TOS 1.62/2.06 switcher + Exxos PSU + CosmoEx with Pi2 + RGB2HDMI IanSB Beta 37
520 STe C025913-038 DMA + 4Mo + TOS 1.62/2.06 switcher + Exxos PSU + MC68HC000 + 2.22K bus resistors + 1772 10K pullup + HxC USB floppy + RGB2HDMI IanSB Beta 39
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by stormy »

Thank you pixelk all received very quickly! Will be installing in my STe :)
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by Cerberus »

NM, following Hoglet’s pin out was very much plug-and play with two exceptions. Finding BLANK wasn’t documented in any of the threads for the STF, but I think I got it at C46, and plugging GND to the 0V on the 12-bit board cooked the shifter, so I left GND unconnected. Not sure how it is getting a ground reference, but as you can see it works a charm.
F945A655-DDF0-4763-B2DD-4EBE170F3D7F.jpeg
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by Cerberus »

I ended up plugging the gnd into a GOTEK ground pin, so everything is happy.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by pixelk »

Cerberus wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:17 pm NM, following Hoglet’s pin out was very much plug-and play with two exceptions. Finding BLANK wasn’t documented in any of the threads for the STF, but I think I got it at C46, and plugging GND to the 0V on the 12-bit board cooked the shifter, so I left GND unconnected. Not sure how it is getting a ground reference, but as you can see it works a charm.

F945A655-DDF0-4763-B2DD-4EBE170F3D7F.jpeg
The STe BLANKing is taken care of by the updated shifter afaik, So I don't have first hand experience for STF's on this, but if I recall correctly, a bad BLANK may not be visually obvious outside some demos (the closure demo is a good test) that push the video hardware.

I found some schematics for the STf here and I found BLANK :

Image

Image

Looks Glue Ship pin 36 should be the ideal spot, But I don't have an ST mainboard to see if it's practical.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by Cerberus »

I saw that, however “CR1” etc. are not what is printed in the silkscreen. Going directly to the Glue is not advisable, and tracing it with a Fluke was very… flakey. (It would signal continuity on both sides of several component legs, and even told me that 5V and GND were shorted, even though the beast works. I don’t trust that black magic.)

I need to figure out where to snake-out the hdmi cable without damaging the case.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by theimann »

@pixelk

Your parcel arrived this week and I did the soldering yesterday. The whole setup works flawlessly and the picture quality is mind-boggling.

Thank you so much!

I decided to solder pin headers onto your board and plugs onto the wires from the ribbon cable so I can do the wiring in my other machines as well and just plug in your board wherever I need it (https://photos.app.goo.gl/M7eQKm5LwR2pfTBMA). Next I'll try to wire my MegaSTE accordingly. If anyone here has tried that please let me know if you encountered any issues. I'd expect to be able to pick up the signals in a similar fashion.

Best, and again thank you!
Tom
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by fmen »

Cerberus wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:37 pm I saw that, however “CR1” etc. are not what is printed in the silkscreen.
You’ll have to find the schematics corresponding to your motherboard’s revision. There are a few revisions with quite different layouts and different numbering of the parts!
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by pixelk »

theimann wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:49 am @pixelk

Your parcel arrived this week and I did the soldering yesterday. The whole setup works flawlessly and the picture quality is mind-boggling.

Thank you so much!

I decided to solder pin headers onto your board and plugs onto the wires from the ribbon cable so I can do the wiring in my other machines as well and just plug in your board wherever I need it (https://photos.app.goo.gl/M7eQKm5LwR2pfTBMA). Next I'll try to wire my MegaSTE accordingly. If anyone here has tried that please let me know if you encountered any issues. I'd expect to be able to pick up the signals in a similar fashion.

Best, and again thank you!
Tom
Excellent news, all the credit should go to the project leaders : c0pperdragon, Hoglet67 and IanSB.

I'm really happy that more people can experience this picture quality.
520 STe C398789-001 DMA + 4Mo + TOS 1.62/2.06 switcher + Exxos PSU + CosmoEx with Pi2 + RGB2HDMI IanSB Beta 37
520 STe C025913-038 DMA + 4Mo + TOS 1.62/2.06 switcher + Exxos PSU + MC68HC000 + 2.22K bus resistors + 1772 10K pullup + HxC USB floppy + RGB2HDMI IanSB Beta 39
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by PeterS »

I couldn't find any info on the size of SD card needed for pi os.

The installer complained that it has to be 4GB or larger.

I must have one somewhere.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by theimann »

Next, MegaSTE. I'm trying to verify the signal output.

Based on https://stardot.org.uk/forums/viewtopic ... 60#p287423 I might have identified the RGB and Mono/VSync:
rgb.png

And I'd assume the HSync is R533:
hs.png
Better quality picture: https://photos.app.goo.gl/WuS171C5RhEKvh696

I have no clue where to get 5V and 0V yet.
I've been looking at the "Atari Mega STE Schematic (Rev 2)" schematics from docs.dev-docs.org


Any advice is welcome!
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by theimann »

My best guess is that I might get lucky with 0V and 5V from C506, at least it looks similar to the STe component? If so, which side is 5V and 0V?
Screenshot 2021-09-26 at 14.53.12.png
You guessed it, my enthusiasm is bigger than my expertise here :)
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by fmen »

The inverted triangle is ground, 0V. VCC is positive but nothing says it’s 5V! Easier and safer to get ground and 5V directly from the power supply I think. Or from the 4 wire cable going to the floppy drive: red is 5V and black is ground. (I’m guessing that the power cable to the floppy drive is standard, I’ve never seen the inside of a Mega STE)
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by theimann »

The inverted triangle is ground, 0V. VCC is positive but nothing says it’s 5V! Easier and safer to get ground and 5V directly from the power supply I think. Or from the 4 wire cable going to the floppy drive: red is 5V and black is ground. (I’m guessing that the power cable to the floppy drive is standard, I’ve never seen the inside of a Mega STE)
Thanks, fmen - I guess I can use my voltmeter to check for 5V and see which side is which (there's no marking on the component).
As for the RGB signals: Comparing the resistor values with the STE layout I think I got it wrong.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by sporniket »

fmen wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:04 pm The inverted triangle is ground, 0V. VCC is positive but nothing says it’s 5V! Easier and safer to get ground and 5V directly from the power supply I think.
It's better to check the schematic, and I've just done that. It's my understanding that all points marked VCC are directly wired to the VCC connected to some pins the power connector, and those pins are marked as "+5"

That said, sourcing directly from the power connector seems safer as other points on the pcb may be overstressed by the increased current caused by the supplemental consumption of the pi+cpld combo.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by pixelk »

VCC is present on almost all decoupling capacitors (the beige blobs Cxxx), it's better to check for 5V and GND with a multimeter of course :)
For a better source, you can also directly go to the ST's power supply (J201 on some schematics) or the floppy disk.

Image

You can also power the Pi externally, but I wouldn't recommend it.

VSync and HSync are usually next to each other (because they are mixed for the composite sync). On the MegaSTE Rec C it is outputed from pin 70 & 71 of the MCU (U501), then are mixed by U308A.

Image

It seems also routed to the R533 you're pointing, so that should be OK.

Image
520 STe C398789-001 DMA + 4Mo + TOS 1.62/2.06 switcher + Exxos PSU + CosmoEx with Pi2 + RGB2HDMI IanSB Beta 37
520 STe C025913-038 DMA + 4Mo + TOS 1.62/2.06 switcher + Exxos PSU + MC68HC000 + 2.22K bus resistors + 1772 10K pullup + HxC USB floppy + RGB2HDMI IanSB Beta 39
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by PeterS »

I now have the pi with the micro SD card and I've written the 32 bit OS to it. The rgb2hdmi software is next.

I'm awaiting the correct HDMI to mini HDMI, I ordered a micro by mistake.

I have a 16 wire ribbon cable but I'm a bit confused about connecting it to the board. It has 12 pin and a 10 pin connector so I guess the 16 wires connect to those somehow.

I haven't opened the STfm yet and it's been a while so I don't know what connector it has.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by theimann »

Hi PeterS,

In my STE setup all the 12 pin connectors are used, but only 4 of the 10 pin connector. That adds up to 16.
The documentation you need is scattered throughout this thread, but it's all there (even for STfm I think).
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by theimann »

So I was partly successful with RGB2HDMI on my MegaSTE.
Hnet.com-image.jpg
Picture: Color signals.
I originally tried to get VSYNC from R526, which is to the left of the first color signal.

I get a picture and I think I got the color right but the screen is rolling vertically. My guess is that the VSYNC signal is not working.
I can validate that to some degree: disconnecting the VSYNC signal has no effect, same problem.
I've been using the same RGB2HDMI/PI Zero with my STE, so I think the software/profile setup is correct.
I'm using the latest Jan Beta release.

I've been trying to grab VSYNC from two places, but no cigar:

1. R526 (This is labeled 'MONO' in the schematics, and this is where I get the VSYNC on my STe successfully).
2. R531 (This is labeled 'VSYNC' in the schematics. I'm not 100% sure it's the correct resistor, but it's the only 33K one in that area
Hnet.com-image (1).jpg
Picture:
Green cable=R533=HSYNC
Grey cable=R531(?)=VSYNC(?)

Advice would be most welcome.

Hi-res pictures:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bFxmzVA8jjTufwMn7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/icLdVLwbJnRQAtYG7

Cheers!


Tom
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by PeterS »

theimann wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:36 pm Hi PeterS,

In my STE setup all the 12 pin connectors are used, but only 4 of the 10 pin connector. That adds up to 16.
The documentation you need is scattered throughout this thread, but it's all there (even for STfm I think).
There is a lot of stuff for the STE but very little about fitting it in the STfm.

I did get around to ordering the mini HDMI to HDMI female. This is a ribbon cable one from eBay. I am hoping I can find a place to fit it above the video DIN socket
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by pixelk »

Sadly I can only offer experience on the STE Front, As PeterS said there is less development for the STFm, but I thought it did "just work". Be sure to select the appropriate profile (the ST ones, not STE), and hook the VSYNC and HSYNC (and not CSYNC like the STE). Also I'm not sure that the ST Profile supports automatic mono switching (on the STE, it only needs a switch to the video plug).

From the cable guide :

Pin 12 HSYNC Glue pin 37 Also on modulator connector pin 5
Pin 14 VSYNC Glue pin 38 Also on modulator connector pin 4

On other news, BikerBob confirmed his interest, I'll mail his board once the transaction is agreed upon.

I'm still waiting on the 5 next CPLD's, as i have potentially 4 boards awaiting a working one.
520 STe C398789-001 DMA + 4Mo + TOS 1.62/2.06 switcher + Exxos PSU + CosmoEx with Pi2 + RGB2HDMI IanSB Beta 37
520 STe C025913-038 DMA + 4Mo + TOS 1.62/2.06 switcher + Exxos PSU + MC68HC000 + 2.22K bus resistors + 1772 10K pullup + HxC USB floppy + RGB2HDMI IanSB Beta 39
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by theimann »

Looks like I need CSYNC instead of VSYNC on my MegaSTE. (Or instead of HSYNC).
I'll try to get it from Pin 2 of the DIN13 monitor connector tomorrow.

Still wondering why MONO works on the STE (as CSYNC) but not on the MegaSTE. I guess my STE has a modulator and the MegaSTE does not?
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