RGB2HDMI for ST

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Cyprian
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RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by Cyprian »

Interesting (and I guess not so expensive) addon based on RPI Zero:
More you can find there: https://github.com/c0pperdragon/Amiga-D ... o/issues/6


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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by Rustynutt »

Those are some sharp images, both the RGB converted output, and your camera.
Picked up an OSSC about a month ago, have yet to give it a whirl.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by alexh »

Looks good but I'm curious if it handles full screens (overscan) correctly? I imagine not but you never know.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by MiggyMog »

Yes the 12 bit version which is on the stardot forum looks like it could be just the job!
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by joska »

alexh wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:12 pm Looks good but I'm curious if it handles full screens (overscan) correctly? I imagine not but you never know.
I'm curious too, but since this basically is a DAC I would assume it does.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by alexh »

It's a software DAC though. I guess it really depends how out of spec full screen overscan really is. If to the outside world it's looks normal then I don't see why it shouldn't work. But CRTs were very forgiving
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by ijor »

Interesting device. Images look extremely sharp !
joska wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:23 pm I'm curious too, but since this basically is a DAC I would assume it does.
DAC ??? Why it needs a DAC at all if the output is digital?
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by tin »

alexh wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:12 pm Looks good but I'm curious if it handles full screens (overscan) correctly? I imagine not but you never know.
As far as I can tell fullscreens and hardware scrolling works pretty flawless with the RGBtoHDMI - at least the well-behaved (aka non-sync-changing) ones I checked so far. Borders (aka scan area) can be nicely tuned in-software.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by joska »

ijor wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 1:19 pm DAC ??? Why it needs a DAC at all if the output is digital?
I was waiting for this comment :) Yes, it's not really a DAC. What I mean is that this solution samples the digital RGB output from the shifter, and it does not matter if the "border" colour is constant or varies per pixel. It's the DE signal that tells the shifter whether to output a solid colour or pixel data, and it's this signal that's manipulated with overscan/border busting techniques. The RGB2HDMI solution described here use the sync signals for syncronisation, not DE, and does most likely not care at all which colour is output from the shifter at any time.

Btw if you use the RPi's composite output it is a DAC ;) A pointless DAC, but still.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by mfro »

joska wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:05 pm... What I mean is that this solution samples the digital RGB output from the shifter, and it does not matter if the "border" colour is constant or varies per pixel. It's the DE signal that tells the shifter whether to output a solid colour or pixel data, and it's this signal that's manipulated with overscan/border busting techniques. The RGB2HDMI solution described here use the sync signals for syncronisation, not DE, and does most likely not care at all which colour is output from the shifter at any time...
I wouldn't be so sure about that, to be honest. All the border opening tricks basically work by a change of the pixel clock at times.

I'm far from an expert about this, but have some doubts that digital sampling of the pixel data is just as forgiving regarding "flexible" clocks as (analog) video circuits are.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by wietze »

Anyone making these for atari ;)?
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by Cyprian »

wietze wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:41 pm Anyone making these for atari ;)?
good question, I'm also interested
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by DarkLord »

As always, (hate to keep beating the same drum, I know) but also waiting on a
"finished' product offered to the Atari community.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by masteries »

wietze wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:41 pm Anyone making these for atari ;)?
hehe

I am researching an external version of this; due to current design require to open the case... prepare your motherboard...

A real SCART2HDMI can be better; also I am researching fast speed (40 MHz) 8 bits DACs + a XC9572 based CPLD to sync frames and prepare the digital 32 bits colour data for the Rapsberry. Stereo audio is also important,

Probably a solution suitable for all your retro systems, instead an ad-hoc solution for each system separately; and cheaper than OSSC

But the amount of work is cumbersome... :D
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by wietze »

masteries wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:18 pm
wietze wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:41 pm Anyone making these for atari ;)?
hehe

I am researching an external version of this; due to current design require to open the case... prepare your motherboard...

A real SCART2HDMI can be better; also I am researching fast speed (40 MHz) 8 bits DACs + a XC9572 based CPLD to sync frames and prepare the digital 32 bits colour data for the Rapsberry. Stereo audio is also important,

Probably a solution suitable for all your retro systems, instead an ad-hoc solution for each system separately; and cheaper than OSSC

But the amount of work is cumbersome... :D
Its pretty impressive that you're finding the time for this AND the game development AND the other hardware project you're looking at. You're like a machine. You should consider take up democoding too! :)
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by DarkLord »

If we're gonna shoot for the moon, then let's throw in getting a
Falcon 040 up and running! :)
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by masteries »

wietze wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:03 pm
masteries wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:18 pm
wietze wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:41 pm Anyone making these for atari ;)?
hehe

I am researching an external version of this; due to current design require to open the case... prepare your motherboard...

A real SCART2HDMI can be better; also I am researching fast speed (40 MHz) 8 bits DACs + a XC9572 based CPLD to sync frames and prepare the digital 32 bits colour data for the Rapsberry. Stereo audio is also important,

Probably a solution suitable for all your retro systems, instead an ad-hoc solution for each system separately; and cheaper than OSSC

But the amount of work is cumbersome... :D
Its pretty impressive that you're finding the time for this AND the game development AND the other hardware project you're looking at. You're like a machine. You should consider take up democoding too! :)
Thanks Wietze!

On the message I intended to say ADCs instead DACs.

Really, I am really tired of the extremely bad quality of modern TV SCART inputs, that deprecate half of frames (for a 50 Hz input, you obtain a 25 frames per second image ¿? Why?; the same if the input is a 60 Hz one...) :x

And the low cost SCART to HDMI perform the same way :x

Only the real expensive ones are good, but why not to develop an affordable device, suitable for all your RGB output machines, such ST/E, Amiga, MegaDrive, SuperNES...

You can notice that I hate speculators; obviously the inventions can´t be given for nothing, but not for hundred of coins too.

Due to this, I started the research about how to acquire a RGB image and convert it to doublescan at 50 / 60 Hz HDMI output.
Without frame deprecation, and with the option of apply scanlines.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by TheNameOfTheGame »

Yes, this would be a useful add-on. Even though there are LCD monitors that accept a native 15Khz signal, the resolution scaling leads to a less than crisp image in low and medium rez.

If the images above are representative of the sharpness of this device that would be fantastic!
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by Methanoid »

Looks great but only one I have seen needs lots of soldering to signal wires... Not as plug n play as Amiga versions :-(
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by pixelk »

I opened another topic because I didn' see this one (sorry :oops: ).

I built 5, and soldered one in an STE. I still have to calibrate it, but the picture quality is perfect. No analog solution can compete with a fully digital one IMHO.

Image

Image

And here are the solder points for the STE (really easy soldering)

Image
Last edited by pixelk on Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by terence »

hello
have you seen the Amiga hardware solution, that plugs directly on the Denise chip ?
really great job, with no solder.

would not that be possible on ST ?
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by pixelk »

Solderless on the ST is possible, as there is a "man-in-the-middle" board that sits in between the Shifter and mainboard in the project (I ordered the PCB but I only have STes).
The STe would be trickier to do with no soldering because the shifter is QFP (as you can see on my last photo), but again the soldering to do on the STE mainboard is REALLY easy.

By the way, now that I Auto-configured the clock, my image is perfectly stable \o/ and still pixel perfect.

If anyone wants me to try something, I can capture picture and video with my HDMI capture card.
520 STe C398789-001 DMA + 4Mo + TOS 1.62/2.06 switcher + Exxos PSU + CosmoEx with Pi2 + RGB2HDMI IanSB Beta 37
520 STe C025913-038 DMA + 4Mo + TOS 1.62/2.06 switcher + Exxos PSU + MC68HC000 + 2.22K bus resistors + 1772 10K pullup + HxC USB floppy + RGB2HDMI IanSB Beta 39
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by DarkLord »

Geez, I really want something like this for my STacy... :)
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by Methanoid »

pixelk wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:32 pm Solderless on the ST is possible, as there is a "man-in-the-middle" board that sits in between the Shifter and mainboard in the project (I ordered the PCB but I only have STes).
The STe would be trickier to do with no soldering because the shifter is QFP (as you can see on my last photo), but again the soldering to do on the STE mainboard is REALLY easy.

By the way, now that I Auto-configured the clock, my image is perfectly stable \o/ and still pixel perfect.

If anyone wants me to try something, I can capture picture and video with my HDMI capture card.
Thanks for both last posts... I might have a friend solder for me eventually. I have an STE but an STFM coming too so would be interested in more about the STFM solderless solution (and pics). I dont suppose you sell the RGB2HDMI boards? :wink: I'm in UK
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Re: RGB2HDMI for ST

Post by DarkLord »

Keeping fingers crossed for selling them! :)
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