PAK in 1040STE?

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Rustynutt
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PAK in 1040STE?

Post by Rustynutt »

Have a PAK030 with buffer board and FRAK gathering dust for a bit. It's one of the newly made units from the UK Retro Store.
Thought it might require a MEGA ST to fit into, until reading about Darklords journey fitting into his STacy.
Anyone know if it will fit into a Ste physically and if compatible?
Thanks
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by Atarieterno »

Rustynutt wrote:Have a PAK030 with buffer board and FRAK gathering dust for a bit. It's one of the newly made units from the UK Retro Store.
Thought it might require a MEGA ST to fit into, until reading about Darklords journey fitting into his STacy.
Anyone know if it will fit into a Ste physically and if compatible?
Thanks

Where is that device sold, mate?
Can you put a link?
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by Rustynutt »

Let me check, off eBay, think they call themselves Retro Computer. They only have infrequent availability.
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by czietz »

Assuming you have the required adapter (PLCC CPU socket to DIL), a PAK030 will also work in an STE. However, the manual mentions that this adapter is often the cause of problems due to bad contacts.
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by Rustynutt »

Atarieterno wrote:
Rustynutt wrote:Have a PAK030 with buffer board and FRAK gathering dust for a bit. It's one of the newly made units from the UK Retro Store.
Thought it might require a MEGA ST to fit into, until reading about Darklords journey fitting into his STacy.
Anyone know if it will fit into a Ste physically and if compatible?
Thanks

Where is that device sold, mate?
Can you put a link?
Greetings.
https://www.ebay.com/str/zp-manchester
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by Rustynutt »

czietz wrote:Assuming you have the required adapter (PLCC CPU socket to DIL), a PAK030 will also work in an STE. However, the manual mentions that this adapter is often the cause of problems due to bad contacts.
:)

Yes, that is a difficult adapter to aquire.
They were sort of made to work with the MonSTer boards, but not available now.
There are places that will manufacture, I'm sure be a few bucks.
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by artik-wroc »

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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by Rustynutt »

artik-wroc wrote:I trying to install PAK in MegaSTE :)

https://translate.google.pl/translate?s ... id%3D15793
Sorry admin, mistaken "reported" this post :(

Do you have the buffer board?

I had a Mega see purchased the FPU GALs for. Brad at Best Electronics said some have problems.
I used a 68882, and no software of bench programs could see it.
All I could think of was maybe the 68881 was somehow different and the GAL did not support the 882.
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by Greenious »

Rustynutt wrote:
czietz wrote:Assuming you have the required adapter (PLCC CPU socket to DIL), a PAK030 will also work in an STE. However, the manual mentions that this adapter is often the cause of problems due to bad contacts.
:)

Yes, that is a difficult adapter to aquire.
They were sort of made to work with the MonSTer boards, but not available now.
There are places that will manufacture, I'm sure be a few bucks.
The elusive plcc plug adapter..

http://www.a-flex.com/PLCC-Plug.html

It seems very difficult to source in small numbers.
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by Greenious »

Rustynutt wrote:
artik-wroc wrote:I trying to install PAK in MegaSTE :)

https://translate.google.pl/translate?s ... id%3D15793
Sorry admin, mistaken "reported" this post :(

Do you have the buffer board?

I had a Mega see purchased the FPU GALs for. Brad at Best Electronics said some have problems.
I used a 68882, and no software of bench programs could see it.
All I could think of was maybe the 68881 was somehow different and the GAL did not support the 882.
Well, on some MSTE mobo's you need to do more than just insert the GALs and FPU, if I remember correctly there's also a resistor on the underside of the mobo that needs to be removed and possibly there was something else.

The FPU works very differently with a 68000 vs a 68030. With 68000 it is a peripheral device, which makes it slower and cumbersome to use, it is basically just a memory mapped adress that performs math... with 68030 it hooks up as a genuine co-processor, which from a programmers point of view makes them look as one united CPU. Hardwarewise it's very different on how they are connected.

I read the thread, I guess the pak got hardwired timings for a 8MHz bus, a redesign of the logic should be possible to make it work at 16MHz, and then it could possibly also benefit from the cache in the MSTE. It would be interesting to see what impact that would make on the performance, since the 030 got it's own cache (albeit smaller), so it will probably not make the same huge difference it does for the 68000.
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by Greenious »

Rustynutt wrote:Have a PAK030 with buffer board and FRAK gathering dust for a bit. It's one of the newly made units from the UK Retro Store.
Thought it might require a MEGA ST to fit into, until reading about Darklords journey fitting into his STacy.
Anyone know if it will fit into a Ste physically and if compatible?
Thanks
I highly doubt it will physically fit in any STE without some very creative thinking. There is just not enough room between the CPU and the keyboard, the shielding has to go.

Back in the days there was a company that made new top cases for ST/STE, together with a kit to make the keyboard external, which basically made the ST/STE to look like the bastard child between a MST & a MSTE... or a very wide MST.
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by Rustynutt »

Desktopper case :)
Thanks for the link, I have another book marked somewhere, still prototyped though.
Yes, there is a mod on the bottom of the board to do, forget exactly what it was, but simple and is documented with the GAL package from Best.
Darklord picked up the motherboard from me last year, don't know if he got anywhere with it.
I haven't stacked the hardware to physically check the height, and was kind of waiting for an Mega to show up. There's a really nice STe auction I saw, made me want to inquire.
Shielding?
What's that :)
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by DarkLord »

Sadly, it's still packed away - just haven't had time. /sigh...

It's important to note that while I successfully (with a ton of help from the
Atari community and Pakman) put a Pak 68/3 board into my STacy, it is
without either a Frak or PuPla board.

To put either one (or preferably both) in, I would have to wire extensions
to install them *horizontally*, rather than vertically. Not enough room in
the STacy to even stack one, let alone both.

Something to think about before installing one in the STe...
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by artik-wroc »

Greenious wrote: Well, on some MSTE mobo's you need to do more than just insert the GALs and FPU, if I remember correctly there's also a resistor on the underside of the mobo that needs to be removed and possibly there was something else.
Resistor on the underside or jumper W3 depending on the motherboard version.
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by Rustynutt »

DarkLord wrote:Sadly, it's still packed away - just haven't had time. /sigh...

It's important to note that while I successfully (with a ton of help from the
Atari community and Pakman) put a Pak 68/3 board into my STacy, it is
without either a Frak or PuPla board.

To put either one (or preferably both) in, I would have to wire extensions
to install them *horizontally*, rather than vertically. Not enough room in
the STacy to even stack one, let alone both.

Something to think about before installing one in the STe...
Ah, thought you had installed the FRAK too...
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by DarkLord »

Nope, sad to say - although (like many things Atari) I've thought about it
and the PuPLa both a lot. :)

Make sure you read that newly translated Pak manual - there are lots of
"gotcha's" to an STe installation....
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by Rustynutt »

My Afterburner and NOVA work fine at 20mhz bus with a 4" ribbon cable on the Falcon expansion
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by DarkLord »

Rustynutt wrote:My Afterburner and NOVA work fine at 20mhz bus with a 4" ribbon cable on the Falcon expansion
Ribbon cable is what I used when I moved the internal power supply board to the battery compartment in the STacy,
to make room for the Pak board.

Tedious soldering to say the least! :)
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by artik-wroc »

I still fighting this topic :)
Two different computers: MSTE & STE
Two different PLCC-DIP adapters:
http://atari.wroclaw.pl/fotki/plccdip1.jpg
http://atari.wroclaw.pl/pliki/pak1.jpg

(M)STE & PAK: (as I wrote in another topic) First impression, everything works. But there is a problem, when Atari try to play the STE sound, the computer resets. Yamaha plays correctly, but stereo STE causes a reset. I thought it was a MSTE motherboard problem, now I check on STE and it is the same.
Turning off "everything" (MMU, cache, SLC) at PAK doesn't help.

(M)STE & PAK + PuPla/2: not start, black screen.
(M)STE & 68000 + PuPla/2: it works.

any ideas ?
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by joska »

I believe I mentioned this in another thread - if your PAK has fast-RAM/alt-RAM you must make sure that the sound player (or to be more precise - the sample being played) is located in ST-RAM. If not it will not work. What kind of software are you testing DMA sound with?
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by artik-wroc »

Only PAK, FRAK (TT-RAM) is absent.
Update:
Paula, Ultimate Tracker, Elly = Reset
Hex Tracker, ProTracker STE, demos that could run on 68030 = sound is correct
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by 1st1 »

czietz wrote:Assuming you have the required adapter (PLCC CPU socket to DIL), a PAK030 will also work in an STE. However, the manual mentions that this adapter is often the cause of problems due to bad contacts.
Inside of an STE? I want to see that...!
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1040STFM in PC-Tower (PAK68/2, OvrScn, 4 MB, 1GB SCSI, CD-ROM...) * 3x Falcon 030 * 3x TT030 * many 260 /520/1040ST(F)(M)(+) * 520/1040STE * many Mega ST * 2x Mega STE * Stacy * STBook * 2x SLM605 * 3x SLM804 * SMM804 * SH 204/205 * Megafile 30/44/60 * SF314 * SF354 * 5x Pofo * PC3 * ...
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by 1st1 »

artik-wroc wrote:I trying to install PAK in MegaSTE :)
What will happen if that MSTE switches to 16 MHz? 68030 at 64 Mhz? Wow!
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1040STFM in PC-Tower (PAK68/2, OvrScn, 4 MB, 1GB SCSI, CD-ROM...) * 3x Falcon 030 * 3x TT030 * many 260 /520/1040ST(F)(M)(+) * 520/1040STE * many Mega ST * 2x Mega STE * Stacy * STBook * 2x SLM605 * 3x SLM804 * SMM804 * SH 204/205 * Megafile 30/44/60 * SF314 * SF354 * 5x Pofo * PC3 * ...
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Re: PAK in 1040STE?

Post by joska »

1st1 wrote:Inside of an STE? I want to see that...!
If you replace the PSU with an external one or a PicoPSU there's lot of space inside an STE. I have a MonSTEr, CPU accelerator and ET4000 graphics card inside mine.
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