Beginning of very long journey

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mpattonm
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by mpattonm »

czietz wrote: Full preview at https://www.chzsoft.de/storage/falcon-rev4-board.pdf. PM me if you want the files (Gerber and GC-Prevue project).
Many thanks!
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by calimero »

This is interesting :)

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using Atari since 1986.http://wet.atari.orghttp://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ ・ Atari Falcon030/CT63/SV ・ Atari STe ・ Atari Mega4/MegaFile30/SM124 ・ Amiga 1200/PPC ・ Amiga 500 ・ C64 ・ ZX Spectrum ・ RPi ・ MagiC! ・ MiNT 1.18 ・ OS X
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by mpattonm »

If anyone is wondering , the project has not stalled, as it might seem from dropping post frequency, quite the contrary.
However, I have taken a detour and after reconsidering future plans, I have decided to start from scratch, rather then beating up the dead horse and polishing Atari work. Therefor, I am currently re-creating schematics, which in long term will give me a flexibility for complex upgrades and design changes.
About 50% of schematic is down now.
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by TheNameOfTheGame »

Superb!
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by Gaiyan »

mpattonm wrote:If anyone is wondering , the project has not stalled, as it might seem from dropping post frequency, quite the contrary.
However, I have taken a detour and after reconsidering future plans, I have decided to start from scratch, rather then beating up the dead horse and polishing Atari work. Therefor, I am currently re-creating schematics, which in long term will give me a flexibility for complex upgrades and design changes.
About 50% of schematic is down now.
Geez Louise! What a time to be an Atarian. Awesome. Good luck!
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by sqward »

Can I have more DSP memory please :) From 32Kwords (96KB) we could go to 192Kwords which would be 576KB!
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by mpattonm »

Hmmm... can do, sir!
Faster DSP (56002 on higher freq clock) is also pretty easy to do, but would it break SW compatibility?
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by dhedberg »

Yes, more DSP SRAM would make the DSP a lot more useful!
Will your version be a true 32bit architecture? No stupid 16bit data bus?
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by sqward »

mpattonm wrote:Hmmm... can do, sir!
Faster DSP (56002 on higher freq clock) is also pretty easy to do, but would it break SW compatibility?
It would require a default mode that's 100% backward compatible and it would have to enabled for software that can handle it.

But to be honest, I'd rather have custom chips redone with FPGA then someone spending energy on extras (which could be enabled by FPGA anyway).
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by mpattonm »

At this stage, this would create no extra work for me as I am just about to start with audio schematic only (including DSP). It makes no difference whether I take chip data from one datasheet or another. 56001 and 56002 are fairly similar, same family chip, just 56002 is more packed (but extra IOs can be ignored for sake of simplicity) and can be run on higher clock.
As for the default "mode" I plan to eventually (still in this rev) switch from crystal clock generators to PLL programable clocks so default clock could be Falcons 32Mhz.
56002 would however have higher MIPS then 56001 at the same frequency. I guess some code could potentially be affected , right?
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by mpattonm »

Still to-do:
-DSP (56002?)
-analog audio (thinking to redesign it with higher grade op amps)
-LAN & USB (for now, just embedded NetUSBee)
- redesign whole clock generation and distribution concept with a goal to avoid hard-to-get frequency crystal generators and resonators

except for that, I have schematics and main board layout complete
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by mikro »

Accelerating the DSP is one of the safe mods to do - DSP is faster than the CPU anyway, every recv/send operation in the DSP is synchronised to the host port so no worries here. I don't know one demo which would refuse to work on DSP@50 MHz but I know a ton of demos which refuse to work on CPU@ >16 MHz.
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by ThorstenOtto »

mpattonm wrote:would it break SW compatibility?
Yes it would, at least if you are using the XBIOS routines. All those Dsp_Reserve(), Dsp_LoadSubRoutine() functions etc. that manage memory, have hardcoded values about how much X/Y/P memory is available. They also assume that P memory is physically overlapping X/Y memory.

You could of course use your own code to download programs to the DSP, but i have no idea whether there is a way to detect the memory configuration of the DSP from the CPU side.
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by mpattonm »

So faster DSP is no issue (mikro), but larger memory on DSP bus is, unless it is patched in (Emu)TOS (Otto)?
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by mpattonm »

By twe way looking at the DSP memory bus schematic I am confused by the way highest adress line (A14) is handled.
Its not only connected to corresponding memory chip pins, but also interfaced by DSP_XY signal from DSP pin 43, through U39 gate. Falcon service manual says: "This signal is used to select which external memory space... T h i s p i n i s n o t c o n n e c t e d in Falcon030 system."
While in fact it is certainly connected and can be used to alter the A14 adress line. Same goes for PS signal. Can anobody please eplain what is the purpose (systemwise)?
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by ThorstenOtto »

mpattonm wrote:unless it is patched in (Emu)TOS (Otto)?
Yes, at least in TOS 4.04. EmuTOS does not have any DSP functions so far. Or, if you manage to provide a compatibility mode at startup that looks the same as the original DSP56001, and the additional memory has to be explicitly activated, there should be no problem; programs that are aware of that can just use there own routines (haven't looked at complex examples yet, maybe they are doing that already, anyway).
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by ThorstenOtto »

Just found in the 56002 manual, which might become a problem:
Note: The difference between Modes 1 and 5 in the DSP56002 and Mode 1 in the
DSP56001 may be considered software incompatibility. A DSP56001 program that
reloads the internal P: RAM from the Host Port by setting MB-MA = 01 (assuming
external pull-up resistor on bit 23 of P:$C000) will not work correctly in the
DSP56002. In the DSP56002, the program would trigger a bootstrap from the exter-
nal EPROM. The solution is to modify the DSP56001 program to set MC-MA = 101.
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by mpattonm »

oh :(
all right, 56001 with double the extRAM, and onboard switch to disable the extra address line
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by alienkidmj12 »

this sounds awesome :) good luck
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by alienkidmj12 »

socketed cpu would be a nice addition :)
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by alienkidmj12 »

all sounds good, you sound like you know what your doing :)
mpattonm wrote:If anyone is wondering , the project has not stalled, as it might seem from dropping post frequency, quite the contrary.
However, I have taken a detour and after reconsidering future plans, I have decided to start from scratch, rather then beating up the dead horse and polishing Atari work. Therefor, I am currently re-creating schematics, which in long term will give me a flexibility for complex upgrades and design changes.
About 50% of schematic is down now.
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by alienkidmj12 »

yeah i have one of these also :)

did i really say that :) hehe ive my paws on a few projects
calimero wrote:This is interesting :)

Amiga 1200 http://wordpress.hertell.nu/?p=587
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by mpattonm »

alienkidmj12 wrote:all sounds good, you sound like you know what your doing :)
Only time will show.
And while debugging that dreaded Falcon board board, I have also quite progressed on F030NG. Schematics, except for DSP and analog audio are now complete, LAN and USB are in place. I have also did a first version of board layout.
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Last edited by mpattonm on Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by mpattonm »

...and with airwires on.
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Re: Beginning of very long journey

Post by alienkidmj12 »

wow that is some board, do you intend on using sponsors to have boards developed for this, i will be up for it if you decide to go that way :)
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