4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
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4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
The 16MHz mod is the basic booster one which gives overall about 30% increase in machine speed. Its designed to solder on top of the CPU. There is only a few connections to be made. Though it is possible to wire it to the CPU and locate the board elsewhere if there is other upgrades already over the CPU. I've had thinner PCB's made as height is at a premium (as always). The CPU booster should fit over the CPU and still fit under the metal shield. Though if not, it can be routed away next to the CPU somewhere anyway.
I'm still waiting for the cables to come for the 4MB kit currently. I've been told there's huge shipping delays with the China post (more than normal) So it could be a few weeks before the rest of the stuff arrives. I will post here progress as it happens. I normally get really busy with work a month before xmas, so its probable they won't be on sale until after xmas. Stay tuned!
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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
Wow, that's looking sweet!!! What an awesome project this has turned into! =D
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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
I did notice that one a while ago, but when I did the MMU layout, there is 3 sides of the MMU which needed to be linked into, but on your design, it only seems to use 2 sides of the MMU ? I can't see where it would pick up MAD 7,8,9 without another row of pins on the MMU ?
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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
ahh 

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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
For the larger 16mhz kit with fast rom, Here are the scope waveforms of the CPU & ROM running at 16mhz..
We can see the CPU enter 16mhz when /AS is HI, or ROM_CS is LO. Of course when /AS & ROM_CS are both LO, this still results in 16mhz mode without glitching back to 8mhz.
A little while later in the cycles, we can see the CPU switch from 8mhz to 16mhz there it remains at 16mhz for basically ages!
I will re-test 16mhz rom and 8mhz rom to see if there is any difference. Though how its looking at the moment, 16mhz ROM access isn't giving any boost in speed at all according to GemBench4. As GB4 isn't even showing 200% ROM access, I can only assume it was never tested at higher speeds.
I could do with someone chipping in who knows more about TOS calls, who could possibly write a small app to benchmark various TOS functions. I would assume there would be some routines in TOS which do not need to access RAM or some long routines which take many CPU cycles which should run faster at 16mhz. I guess a program to just access a address in ROM might be enough to see if there is a speed boost at all without actually calling any functions.
We can see the CPU enter 16mhz when /AS is HI, or ROM_CS is LO. Of course when /AS & ROM_CS are both LO, this still results in 16mhz mode without glitching back to 8mhz.
A little while later in the cycles, we can see the CPU switch from 8mhz to 16mhz there it remains at 16mhz for basically ages!
I will re-test 16mhz rom and 8mhz rom to see if there is any difference. Though how its looking at the moment, 16mhz ROM access isn't giving any boost in speed at all according to GemBench4. As GB4 isn't even showing 200% ROM access, I can only assume it was never tested at higher speeds.
I could do with someone chipping in who knows more about TOS calls, who could possibly write a small app to benchmark various TOS functions. I would assume there would be some routines in TOS which do not need to access RAM or some long routines which take many CPU cycles which should run faster at 16mhz. I guess a program to just access a address in ROM might be enough to see if there is a speed boost at all without actually calling any functions.
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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
Nice progress! I wonder if we can get PP to take a look here, he might be able to shed some light.
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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
Possible, though I just assume its a RAM bottleneck slowing things down. I guess if GEM apps were run in Alt-ram and the CPU could access alt-ram at 16mhz, as well as TOS at 16mhz, then I would assume it would give a huge boost in GEM app speeds. I think AlanH was doing some Alt-ram boards a while back, but I will have to ask him if they are likely to be capable of running at 16mhz.GadgetUK164 wrote:Nice progress! I wonder if we can get PP to take a look here, he might be able to shed some light.
I still want to try faster than 16mhz speeds, though big "d'oh" as when I got the other pcbs made, I forgot to include the clock booster boards. Not really worth putting them into production on their own either

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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
As I see, TOS ROM is selected by own logic, instead slow Glue. But Glue still generates DTACK when TOS ROM is accessed - what may cause problems. Override of it is using TOS 2.06 on different address space.
I will code some simple ROM access speed SW - based on using movem - then RAM speed should have minimal influence.
I will code some simple ROM access speed SW - based on using movem - then RAM speed should have minimal influence.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.
Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
TOS206 isn't using GLUE DTACK, it is generated on the card. I think rodolphe said it was 62ns. I did try faster speeds but it did not work. Rodolphe is going to see if he can speed up ROM access any soon.AtariZoll wrote:As I see, TOS ROM is selected by own logic, instead slow Glue. But Glue still generates DTACK when TOS ROM is accessed - what may cause problems. Override of it is using TOS 2.06 on different address space.
I will code some simple ROM access speed SW - based on using movem - then RAM speed should have minimal influence.
It would be really useful if you can do simple ROM speed testing software. CPU & ROM are running at 16mhz. Of course CPU also run 16mhz when /AS is HI so this will have some effect on software running.
Gadgetguy has 16mhz booster (with normal TOS access 8mhz) so we will have to benchmark his machine to get the base line figures. Then try on my ST with 16mhz ROM and see if figures improve.
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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
Here is simple test prg:
At 8 MHz it shows 212 . Should show about 120 when TOS ROM is accessed with 16 MHz CPU speed. 85% of testing time is pure ROM read . For TOS 2.06 - accessing area at $E00200 . On Mega STE at 16 MHz shows 104, but it caches RAM and ROM too, so it's all with full speed.You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.
Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
ok great 
TOS206 on STFM shows 139... We just need gadget guy to try results as he has 16mhz cpu and 8mhz TOS..

TOS206 on STFM shows 139... We just need gadget guy to try results as he has 16mhz cpu and 8mhz TOS..
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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
So, ROM really runs at 16 MHz. At least most of time.
With this test speed gain on Gagdet's machine will be minimal, max some 20% - as said most time is ROM read.
With this test speed gain on Gagdet's machine will be minimal, max some 20% - as said most time is ROM read.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.
Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
Well that is good news if ROM running 16mhz speeds. I think its 17% for CPU only 16mhz.AtariZoll wrote:So, ROM really runs at 16 MHz. At least most of time.
With this test speed gain on Gagdet's machine will be minimal, max some 20% - as said most time is ROM read.
Though in gembench4, nothing shows up as running faster in TOS. Mostly ROM speeds, GEM windows etc, all show no speed improvement. So do you have any idea what routines would actually benefit from 16mhz TOS ?
I am starting to think GemBench4 isn't showing the proper speed measurements as the ROM speed in there is still 100%. Clearly the ROM speed is faster. So if that speed test is incorrect, then its possible all the GEM related speed tests are not showing correct figures either.
I wonder if there is any other benchmark programs out there which may be better than gembench in relation to TOS functions ?
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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
I used some SW long time ago, mostly with Gemulator. But can not remember name at moment.
There are some ROM routines which actually run in RAM from diverse reasons - short code. But then it should run faster too, as RAM is accelerated too, although not so much. And Line-A goes via blitter in many cases, so should ensure that it is off.
There are some ROM routines which actually run in RAM from diverse reasons - short code. But then it should run faster too, as RAM is accelerated too, although not so much. And Line-A goes via blitter in many cases, so should ensure that it is off.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.
Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
Results are (with 1.04 setting) I half think GEM runs faster, though it was when the CPU was boosted to 16mhz anyway, but im sure GEM is running faster with 16mhz ROM. Its hard to tell.
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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
I tried PP's util there but I just get a flashing cursor and then it returns to GEM? Could it be due to TOS 1.04?
I did all tests on that other benchmark prog (seperately), excluding the RPM test as that was hanging.
EDIT: I attribute those higher readings I got to the Blitter, and the 64Kb DMA is probably the Ultra Satan.
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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
Doesn't show anything on mine =/ I get a black flashing cursor for a couple of seconds and then it just goes back to GEM? Presumably I just double click the .TOS file here and it should display something?AtariZoll wrote:Here is simple test prg:At 8 MHz it shows 212 . Should show about 120 when TOS ROM is accessed with 16 MHz CPU speed. 85% of testing time is pure ROM read . For TOS 2.06 - accessing area at $E00200 . On Mega STE at 16 MHz shows 104, but it caches RAM and ROM too, so it's all with full speed.
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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
Same thing with Blitter switched off:-
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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
Awesome, yeah, I forgot you had blitter, you need to turn that off and do the tests... the DMA speeds and such are not important.GadgetUK164 wrote:Here's that app running on mine:-
I tried PP's util there but I just get a flashing cursor and then it returns to GEM? Could it be due to TOS 1.04?
I did all tests on that other benchmark prog (seperately), excluding the RPM test as that was hanging.
EDIT: I attribute those higher readings I got to the Blitter, and the 64Kb DMA is probably the Ultra Satan.
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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
ahh, you beat me to it on no blitter tests. There is a slight & difference, but that is probably down to TOS104 vs TOS206 so some small error variation has to be included. So how its looking, 16mhz ROM isn't giving any speed boosts.. again.. Though with PP's util, it does show around 85% speed boost. Very strange indeed.
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Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
maybe a silly question...but is it useful yo compare it against an Atari Mega Ste at 16MHZ?
Trying to learn...
Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress
AtariZoll already tried his program on MSTE, it was slightly faster than my setup, though I think he said there was cache involved.qq1975b wrote:maybe a silly question...but is it useful yo compare it against an Atari Mega Ste at 16MHZ?
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