ST HDMI Out

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SainT
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by SainT »

DarkLord wrote:Just curious, is that pic to scale? I mean is that what the size of it is going to be,
or (I'm assuming) somewhat smaller?

Thanks!
Hehe, no. The PCB above is about 5cm by 7cm, it'll appear a lot bigger on all but the tiniest monitors. ;)

The "final" board, which will consist of an EP2C5 mini FPGA board from eBay and a daughter board connected on the top and will be about 7x7x1.5cm. There's enough room to mount it above the shielding on the ST near the monitor socket. The board could be much smaller and neater if I built a full board with FPGA and everything on there, but due to lack of time I don't see that happening in a hurry.
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by alexh »

If it gets interesting you can always licence your design to Lotharek. If he thinks there will be a few quid in it for him he'll mass produce them.

http://www.lotharek.pl/
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by alanh »

SainT wrote:
alanh wrote:It can't work in mono mode as that doesn't work over scart.
Yeah, it can work with mono. HDMI is not scart.
You misread what I was replying to.
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SainT
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by SainT »

alexh wrote:If it gets interesting you can always licence your design to Lotharek. If he thinks there will be a few quid in it for him he'll mass produce them.

http://www.lotharek.pl/
Yeah, I like his work! He's got some nice retro stuff out there. I wish I had the time to design and produce a few interesting bits of hardware. Flash carts are another thing I'd like to get around to doing, there must be a good demand for those. Quite simple to do as well. Had a play about designing one, but the Altera CPLD I was basing it on was a bit finicky about letting me use the pinout I wanted. Ended up using loads more macrocells and overflowed the device, so I got arsed off with it. Might check out Xilinx, see if they are any better.
alanh wrote: You misread what I was replying to.
Sorry, my mistake, it was a few posts up! Yes, indeed, you can't get mono from a SCART to HDMI conveter. :)
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by alexh »

Flash cartridges for the Atari Jaguar? That would be something I'd be interested in collaborating on. I missed out on all three runs of the Skunkboard. They weren't amazing either, you had to download the game from a PC to the cart each time.

One guy has developed flash cartridges for just about every system going, A guy called Krikzz. He's a very smart bloke. Quite talkative.

http://krikzz.com/
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by SainT »

alexh wrote:Flash cartridges for the Atari Jaguar? That would be something I'd be interested in collaborating on. I missed out on all three runs of the Skunkboard. They weren't amazing either, you had to download the game from a PC to the cart each time.

One guy has developed flash cartridges for just about every system going, A guy called Krikzz. He's a very smart bloke. Quite talkative.

http://krikzz.com/
Ah, yes, the everdrive. I have heard of that.

The Jaguar is one system I was thinking of, and I know there is demand for. :D However what I was looking at was a GX4000 / CPC Plus. There weren't many carts produced for the GX4000, and they are very hard to come by, so a flash cart would be ideal and makes a good starting project for flash carts due to the 8 bit bus and small cart size.

Carts are protected by something called the ACID chip, which has been reverse engineered and the VHDL is out there to replace it. The issue I had was the pinout required for the CPLD to be usefully routed caused the number of macrocells to overflow. Could go up to a larger device, but then it starts getting expensive. The device otherwise is simple -- 3.3v PIC interfaced to a micro SD card over SPI and some SRAM. Bus arbitration handled by the CPLD putting the Z80 into a pause state (jump to self) so the PIC can then program the SRAM, otherwise it reads and latches the value from SRAM.

If a similar xillinx part is more flexible on the pin assignments, I quite fancy trying that...
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by Dio »

I certainly would very much like there to be a Jaguar flashcart in order that we can run test programs on both emulators and the real hardware.

Although you should finish one project before moving on :) .
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by SainT »

Dio wrote:I certainly would very much like there to be a Jaguar flashcart in order that we can run test programs on both emulators and the real hardware.

Although you should finish one project before moving on :) .
Hehe, yeah, tell me about it. :)

Although I like more than one thing to think about. Just the one problem can get a bit stale...
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by alexh »

Hehe too much to do too little time
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by TTowner »

SainT wrote:
alanh wrote:It can't work in mono mode as that doesn't work over scart.
Yeah, it can work with mono. HDMI is not scart.

You have to understand I take the video out directly from the shifter (4 bit RGB & single bit mono) and construct an HDMI data stream from this information. I output in colour modes at 720x576p @ 50Hz / 4:3, which allows low and medium resolution just fine. High res is 70Hz, so will require a different video mode, whether a 70Hz mode will work on your TV is a different matter though, as the HDMI spec only requires 50/60Hz modes at specific resolutions. A monitor should be able to deal with 640x400 70Hz no bother though.

Also, I have just ordered a batch of 10 PCB's from China for the bargain price of £18, so when they arrive I'll hopefully get to work again. Yay!

If I get something working with these PCB's I'll happily send them out to people to play with at cost. You'll have to build them up yourself though as I don't have much spare time, but they're not too tricky. The worst part is soldering the level converter chip, as it's quite a fine pitch SMD. I've added layout for the A2D converter and a proper HDMI connector too, so it'll keep me entertained for a while...



I know someone who could work the smd solder part for people.
I'll ask him if he is interested if enough people want this done for them.
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by locnar77 »

I've noticed that the post has kinda stalled, is it still being worked on? I would really like to get one.
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by alexh »

SainT has recently moved games companies so I imagine that is eating a lot of his time.
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by LaurentS »

I would also be interrested in a jaguar stuff.

Keep on the good work, it sounds promizing !

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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by ianken51 »

Just bought an Atari 1040 STf and was wondering how SainT is progressing on his HDMI out project? Is there any product made yet, or are you still developing? :mrgreen:
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by lantti »

SainT wrote: And in-case anyone randomly stumbles on this thread looking for sample HDMI data, then here's some data from an AVI Info Frame --

HB: 82 02 0d e4
SP0: 99 00 08 00 04 00 00 d4
SP1: 00 bf 05 00 00 01 05 41
SP2: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
Hey, great! Thank you very much! I was just looking for sample HDMI data when I randomly stumbled on this thread.
My HDMI FPGA project waves and sends greetings to your HDMI FPGA project!

I was struggling with getting audio transmitted right (like you said also, transmitting video is pretty logical and straight forward) and this little sample already helped me to spot the place where my data islands get crappy. The ST in the picture is not yet connected to the project in any way. First I'm planning to get the basic HDMI traffic right before even thinking about all the projects where I'd like to have a HDMI output from...

Thanks again!
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by oddbox »

Hi, did you ever get this project finished to the point where one can order a finished product?
Would be great to be able to connect the STe with hdmi.
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by DrCoolZic »

There have been lots of project to connect ST/STe to modern TV but as far as I know none has been successful :(
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by alexh »

The CVID BG-460 HDV-8S has been doing the rounds in the Amiga community. Reports are that it's not bad for it's price.
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by DarkLord »

Any version of that unit that doesn't use SCART? SCART is pointless here in the US... :(
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by alexh »

Why? Availability of connectors / cables?

I guess you might need to import an Atari ST(e) RGB SCART cable from the EU but they are sub $15

http://www.retrogamingcables.com/atari- ... -lead.html
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by Guest »

i really dont know why people are making hdmi adapters from rgb
burning away on a fpga chip

all you need to do here is use a VBOX or a virgin cable box {later types} also a sky box works
i know ive done it and its a dam nice picture
it has hdmi output version 2

and scart i/o so you can output direct to hdmi v2 from any RGB input
like an old style dvd is connected via the scart outputs too hdmi socket and to RF
also this includes hi res mode via scart
seems the sync on the scart input of these boxes is wide range...

you find them all day long on the street
you can ask a relative they prob have 10 in the garage...

you can buy them at car boots for a 5r
basically your never more than 20 feet away from one
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by troed »

simbo2 wrote:i really dont know why people are making hdmi adapters from rgb
burning away on a fpga chip
Personally, because I like my modifications to be internal. I simply don't want a big box outside of the machine - I want to add an HDMI port _to_ the machine.
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by DarkLord »

This.

I (and a lot of people) are still waiting for a universal scan doubler/video fix
for the ST line, to allow it to use modern screens with ease.

(and fully agreed, something that doesn't involve adapter A to adapter B
to adapter C, or a bulky box, all with extra power cords needed)

Although many have tried, and several suggestions have been given
as to how "easy" it is, it is pretty apparent that it is not...
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by alexh »

simbo2 wrote:i really dont know why people are making hdmi adapters from rgb burning away on a fpga chip
Because they can? The software engineer who started the thread was learning Verilog/VHDL and FPGA's.
simbo2 wrote:all you need to do here is use a VBOX or a virgin cable box {later types} a sky box works, it has hdmi output and scart i/o so you can output direct to hdmi from any RGB input
Interesting. Which box models work?

It doesn't work on the Virgin Media 4585DVB, CT8685DVB, CT8620DVB or the Sky HD+ DRX890W. For all of these boxes the SCART connector is output only. No input. They have no electronics for analog capture, upscale and output via HDMI.
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Re: ST HDMI Out

Post by DrCoolZic »

DarkLord wrote:This.

I (and a lot of people) are still waiting for a universal scan doubler/video fix
for the ST line, to allow it to use modern screens with ease.

(and fully agreed, something that doesn't involve adapter A to adapter B
to adapter C, or a bulky box, all with extra power cords needed)

Although many have tried, and several suggestions have been given
as to how "easy" it is, it is pretty apparent that it is not...
A lot of people says that it is easy but I have tried many boxes from all around the world without success.
Apparently one key element to succeed is to to have an Atari with a modulator. Unfortunately this type of machine was never released for STE in France :(
Several people probably remember the last project from another forum that was in final test phase and never came out ....
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