First PAK board attempt...

Troubles with your machine? Just want to speak about the latest improvements? This is the place!

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, spiny, Greenious, Moderator Team

Post Reply
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Okay, 2 steps forward, 1 step back time again... <crowd groans>

So I'm playing around with this 4meg memory board, because all of
a sudden it starts showing 2 megs only on boot up. I pull it, reinsert
it, all the usual stuff like that. Finally, it stops booting at all with
this board, only showing a screen with huge black vertical rectangles,
with white lines in between, and won't boot any further.

Here is a screenshot:
STacy 4meg memory board problems.JPG
Huh, methinks to me self. So I pull it, and since I've got a complete
2nd working STacy motherboard with PSU, I put it into this machine
to check it out. Same results, same screen.

So... I put my spare 2 meg STacy memory board in the spare STacy
and it works fine. No problems. Put it in my PAK equipped STacy,
again, boots up fine no problems.

Trying to trouble-shoot a bit here, I swap all the socketed chips on
the good 2meg memory board to the chips on the non-working 4meg
board. Makes no difference. The 4 meg board gives the same black
rectangle screen, again on both STacy's. So just for the fun of it, I
put the 2meg board with the 4meg boards old chips into the PAK
equipped STacy. Boots up fine. Except that the graphics and letters
are a bit scrambled. Kinda like chunks are missing in places. Nasty.

Okay, I think, and I swap all the socketed chips back between the 2meg
and 4meg boards. However, now the problem does not go away (of
course!). The 2meg board now shows the funny graphics on both
STacy's, and the 4meg board shows the black rectangle screen on
both STacy's. :evil:

The only thing I can conclude is that there was an existing problem
with the 4meg board, and it got worse. The 2meg board was fine
until I started messing with it, swapping chips and putting it in and
out. I'll assume that I've done something bad to it.

I did check the pins, looked for breaks, pulled and examined the
socketed chips to see if I had bent one, or anything like that. I
didn't find anything useful though.

Oh BTW, the chips that were socketed were the TOS 1.04 chips
and one other chip that's about the size of the video shifter chip,
but I don't know what it is or what it does.

Anyway, looks like as a last resort, I'll be buying another 4meg
board from Best Electronics or such.

Hey Alan - how close are you to finishing up the replacement TOS
board to go along with your new replacement RAM board??? :roll:

:)

EDIT: Touched the solder points on the header for the MB connections
on the 2meg board and got it to work again. Nada for the 4meg board
still though.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Just finished mounting the PICO power supply in my STacy. Sure does save a whole
lot of space. I went with the 120w model, since it had a floppy drive connector.

Everything seems to be working okay with it, with 1 single oddity (of course!). :roll:

I ended up breaking the white wire for my switch. I tried the black wire first,
because according to the back info panel on the power brick, that is ground.

However, when I did that, with the power jack bolted into the backplane of the
STacy, the switch wouldn't work - I guess it was grounding through the metal of
the jack and the backplane. With the switch in the on or off position, when you
plugged the brick into the jack, everything would power up.

Everything seems to be working like you would expect with breaking the white
wire.

Here are a couple of pictures:
PICO_power jack01.JPG
PICO_power jack02.JPG
PICO_Stacy01.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by DarkLord on Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

After some advice from SoundDoctor, and taking another look at the OP's use of a
switch in the DIY: Retro fitting a PicoPSU into a STf/fm/e machine message thread,
I redid things...

I was off work tonight so I went ahead and changed everything. Black and white
from the power jack are connected with no breaks, and the STacy's original on/off
switch is used to control the "break" from pin#14/green wire and the ground/black
wire.

Here are a couple of pictures:
PICO PS01.JPG
PICO PS03.JPG
Everything seems to be working correctly. The PICO green light goes active as soon
as you plug the brick in to the power jack, and it all powers up just fine when you
turn the STacy's power switch on.

I had everything hooked up this evening, STacy, Ultrasatan, floppy drive, power
converter for the El sheet, etc...and the PICO was still just warm to the touch
after 2-3 hours of operation.

Looking good right now. :)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by DarkLord on Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
Dal
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4199
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:31 am
Location: Cheltenham, UK
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by Dal »

Sounds like some of the dram chips on the 4 meg board is fried. Possibly damaged by static discharge?
STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Dal wrote:Sounds like some of the dram chips on the 4 meg board is fried. Possibly damaged by static discharge?
Hey Dal.

Don't know. I mean I've certainly had the board in and out of the STacy a *lot* with all
the experimenting 'n stuff I've been doing. So it's entirely possible, even though I try
to be careful about that.

Hope you had a great Christmas! :)
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Got the PICO fully set up now. It's powering everything, including feeding the +5v
to the PAK board. Just for the fun of it, I used my multimeter to check the voltages
coming out of the PICO (just ruling everything out ya know). The 12v lines are giving
12.36 and the 5v lines are giving 4.98. I'm assuming that should be okay.

Only reason I'm mentioning this is, now that the PAK board should be getting a
good, solid, clean power supply (and I've got it grounded in 3 different places),
then any tests at 50mhz should be valid as far as that issue goes.

Do have to note though, that with my 4meg RAM/TOS board going down, I had to
replace it with the 2meg board. Unfortunately, the 4meg board was all 80ns RAM,
and the 2meg board is 100ns. Don't know how much of a difference that makes.

Anyway, with the 50mhz 68030, 50mhz 68882, and 50mhz clock crystal installed,
it will boot up just fine. No problems there. However, just like before, if I run
any software that tests the FPU, I get 8-10 bomb crash back to the desktop. Also,
the modified games from Klaz won't run. Finally, Gembench does some really odd
things. The overall speed rating with the STacy @40mhz vs a stock ST is 987%.
With the STacy @50mhz, the overall speed rating vs a stock ST is 669%. :roll:

So for now, I'm still going with the 40mhz clock speed. That seems to be the
fastest I can go with no crashes and the most stability.
Last edited by DarkLord on Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
alanh
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by alanh »

DarkLord wrote:Okay, 2 steps forward, 1 step back time again... <crowd groans>

Hey Alan - how close are you to finishing up the replacement TOS
board to go along with your new replacement RAM board??? :roll:
Hi Ron,

I'm not sure it'll help you, as it uses an Eiffel for the keyboard and mouse.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

alanh wrote:
Hi Ron,

I'm not sure it'll help you, as it uses an Eiffel for the keyboard and mouse.
Ah, that's interesting. Is that set up still using the original keyboard and mouse or
are you putting something different in? I actually have an Eiffel somewhere.

Thanks.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Really close to putting the whole thing back together now.

Here is the bottom half, with labels so everyone can see
what's been done to it (so far):
STacy Modifications (with labels).JPG
It's all coming together, just a few more small details
before I reassemble it.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12930
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by wongck »

Nice [smilie=greencolorz4_pdt_12.gif]
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list
User avatar
ralcool
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 693
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Australia

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by ralcool »

Pfft, Get a Mac.... :roll:

Hehe, No its totally Neat- really neat...... The Ultimate Atari... Portable with power!!!!

The near conclusion of an impressive project. I am quite sure somehow we can find a modern LCD/LED panel to interface with a GBS board... and have color or mono too....

Regardless.

Well Done! :cheers:

You should be very pleased.... I love to either fix or modify things- that at first glance looks factory..... yet is hiding a hidden treat or two.... :twisted:
Can't wait to see how your STacy looks from the outside.

ST.
4160STFM, (Blitter, 4Mb RAM 72pin, 16Mhz OC, IDE, HD FDD, Quad TOS, LaScan, DS1216E Clock, AT-Speed C16, Tom Kirk PS2 mouse, MegaST Keyboard)
What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away
Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy
Don't let post count or join date fool you as to who is a newbie, and who knows what's what
spiny
Disk Imager Supreme
Disk Imager Supreme
Posts: 2709
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:53 pm
Location: just outside bristol
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by spiny »

ralcool wrote: I am quite sure somehow we can find a modern LCD/LED panel to interface with a GBS board... and have color or mono too....
that would be ace :)
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Here we go again...

For whatever reason, when powering my setup with the PICO PSU, I get no
video on the STacy's built in LCD.

I had been doing all my testing on an external monitor, and everything works
fine there and that's why I hadn't seen this problem before.

Using the original factory power supply from the STacy, this problem doesn't
show up.

So apparently something is not coming through to the LCD when the internal
power supply is not plugged in.

It looks like some power is getting there, when I power it up, the lights for
power and the drives do come on.

Because of all the mods I've done to my STacy, I moved a 2nd PICO power supply
to a spare STacy motherboard I've got, and it does the same thing. Remove the
PICO and add the original PSU back, and the video comes on.

I also tried hooking up the PICO to both floppy drive power connectors - same
thing no matter which one it's hooked to. I also added the 2nd ground and it
made no difference (but I didn't really expect that too).

I guess I can go back to using the original PSU, but I really don't want to - the PICO
is so much smaller, more powerful, and doesn't get hot.

I'm going to look at the diagrams and see if I can figure out whatever it is that's
not making it to the LCD.

Any thoughts or suggestions are very welcome! :)
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
alanh
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by alanh »

Hi Ron,

J17 provides -20V on pin 6, and -12V on pin 5. So I'd suspect the panel is using those voltages someplace.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

alanh wrote:Hi Ron,

J17 provides -20V on pin 6, and -12V on pin 5. So I'd suspect the panel is using those voltages some place.
Right, was actually just looking at the diagrams and cropped/labeled this one:
internal PSU MB headers.jpeg
So...solution is to feed those voltages to those pins that are labeled as such?

How do I feed 20v from the PICO? 5v and 12v are easy of course.

Also, what is the difference when it's labeled -12 vs +12v? Are those the same?

Thanks!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
alanh
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by alanh »

I think the PICO should give -12, but -20V - I don't think so. It's not a PC requirement.

Some voltage conversion needs to happen to get 20V - non trivial.

You shouldn't need to bother with +5V and +12V as that will be delivered to the main board via the floppy connector, but you might want to measure them just in case.

But, I'm not sure if -20V and -12V will be used given your new EL panel. I'm not sure what voltages are used at all.

So maybe measure the 5V on pin 12 as it the internal PSU may deliver that seperately.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

I'll try it, report back in a jiffy. :)

Thanks!
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Okay, feeding +5v to pin 12 did nothing. So I went ahead, looking at the schematic
and fed +5v to pin 1, again nothing.

I also fed +12v to pin 4, since its listed. Nothing changed there either.

I don't know how to feed it -20v or -12v. (EDIT: There is -12 on the ATX
standard, so I think the PICO has it)

Just for the fun of it, I took a few multimeter readings. With the original
PS in place, pin 4 on the MB header or at wire 4 on the harness at the LCD
shows approx 156v. Not a typo, 156 volts.

With the PICO in place, testing at the same 2 places gives a -22v. Little bit
of difference there. :roll:

I'm not nearly a good enough electrician/engineer to make heads or tails of
these results, unfortunately. Gonna have to play around with it, as usual when
something like this comes up.

Ah, the challenges, the challenges! :lol:

Thanks.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Just a bit further on the message above...

Using the PICO, I went ahead and fed +5v to pins 1,2,3, +12v to pin4, -12v to
pin5, and finally, +5v to pin 12.

That covers everything but the -20v on pin6 which I have no way of doing at this
time.

Anyway, with everything connected except the -20v, I still get no video. So
apparently the -20v does something somewhere.

Back to the drawing board. :)
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Okay, I'm off this week so I went ahead and reassembled everything, just
for the fun of it.

This is using the original STacy internal power supply board instead of the
PICO, since I couldn't figure out how to give -20v to power the LCD video.

Here is a short video, sorry for the low quality - some el cheapo
camera from Amazon. :)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/109324088/STacy ... 01.AVI.zip
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Okay, uploaded this short video to YouTube as well. Again, sorry for the poor quality and
I'll try to add more video's later on. It's enough to give you a short look at the beaST. :)

http://youtu.be/6tSI20v2JLY
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12930
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by wongck »

Great mod, DL. :thumbs:
Can't wait to see more of the video after being zoomed in to it. :)
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list
rian_ata
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:00 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by rian_ata »

Very nice and classy, job well done DarkLord! 8)
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

wongck wrote:Great mod, DL. :thumbs:
Can't wait to see more of the video after being zoomed in to it. :)
Yeah, I'm going to have to work on that. All I had handy was some cheap camera
I've had for a while from Amazon (Olympus T10 I think). It's okay, but certainly
not great. I'll have to read the manual and see if I can improve it any. I actually
did some video zoomed in on just the desktop and it was still grainy/blurry, so
I didn't post it.

Anyone have suggestions on the best way to film the desktop? Thanks!
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

rian_ata wrote:Very nice and classy, job well done DarkLord! 8)
Thanks guys! :)
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
Post Reply

Return to “Hardware”