First PAK board attempt...

Troubles with your machine? Just want to speak about the latest improvements? This is the place!

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, spiny, Greenious, Moderator Team

Post Reply
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4469
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Okay, got some time to play around with the PAK this evening. First of all, as per the "SupeSTacy" guide,
I had to bend the power header pins on the motherboard over at a 45-90 deg angle. Second, I had to
add 2 levels of risers (connector sockets?) still, just to get the PAK to clear stuff on the motherboard
itself, including those pins to the power headers. I put cardboard lining on the bottom of the board
to make sure nothing shorted out by contact.

With the jumpers on the PAK left in the same positions that it came to me in, I tried to bootup.

White screen. Nothing else (no smoke or pop! sounds, if that's good news).

So I powered down, then one at a time, I changed the jumpers (open or closed, depending on what
they were at), then tried to boot up each time, with each single change.

White screen. Nothing else.

I went back and pulled the PAK and reinserted it, just to make sure. As far as I can tell, I've got it in correctly.

So before I conclude that the board itself is damaged (remember, it came to me that way), 2 questions
immediately spring to mind:

Would the risers cause problems?

Are we sure I've got the TOS 2.06 ROMs correctly inserted into the PAK board? Reason I ask that is years
ago, on a TOS board upgrade from FastTech, I had the ROMs in the wrong way around, and a white screen
is all it would give.

Here's a pic of the TOS 2.06 ROMs inserted into the PAK:
PC120004.JPG
Thanks all.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
frank.lukas
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:33 pm
Location: Germany

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by frank.lukas »

... on the PAK, TOS is 32bit in four Eprom´s.

The Pak can boot with a TOS 2.06 on the Mainboard.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
fancy Atari Musik anDA Dance "Agare Hinu Harukana" 1998 ATARI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX10fxb5eYE
User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12939
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by wongck »

You are lucky that plugging in the ROM wrong way round does not blow out your chip.
I had once accidentally place tos ROM wrong way round and the GND pin wire melted out.
(could see the wire melted through the window as it was a EPROM).

Way to see how to insert it will be to see where the notch on the device is in relation to the white drawn notched outline of the device on the board.
Take the UM6164 chips above the ROM, you see the notch on the left side, and the while outline below it has a notch drawn under it.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4469
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

frank.lukas wrote:... on the PAK, TOS is 32bit in four Eprom´s.

The Pak can boot with a TOS 2.06 on the Mainboard.
Right, any good suggestions on how to burn those Eproms? I don't have a burner handy. :(

Thanks for that file. Also, is that English or German? :)

Okay, I'm not quite certain about your last part. Do you mean that TOS 2.06 has to be on
the *motherboard* or do you mean the PAK board when you say "mainboard".

If on the PAK board itself, that is where I have the TOS 2.06 ROMs. The question is, what
has to be done for this to work correctly? Ralcool looked at the PDF and tried to translate
it as best he could. As far as we could tell:

Chip OO (LOL) in U13, and EO (LOH) in U12

which I believe is where I have them, and I think I got the orientation right.

Is there anything else like jumpers or whatever to use TOS v2.06? At least until I can
maybe get the 3.06 set.

Thanks much!
Last edited by DarkLord on Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4469
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

wongck wrote: Way to see how to insert it will be to see where the notch on the device is in relation to the white drawn notched outline of the device on the board.
Take the UM6164 chips above the ROM, you see the notch on the left side, and the while outline below it has a notch drawn under it.
Right, which does make it look like I have the orientation on the TOS 2.06 chips right. You can see the orientation "notch" on the top of the TOS chips - it's to the left. Hopefully they are in the right sockets/order.

Just not sure about what jumpers or whatever needs to be set and what way.

Thanks.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
Klapauzius
The Klaz
The Klaz
Posts: 4302
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2004 7:55 am
Location: Bavaria
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by Klapauzius »

DarkLord wrote:Okay, I'm not quite certain about your last part. Do you mean that TOS 2.06 has to be on the *motherboard* or do you mean the PAK board when you say "mainboard".
As far as I understood the PDF manual, you can only fit the modded TOS 3.x ROMs on the PAK itself.
I think if you want to use 2.06 the TOS ROMs have to be installed on the host machine.

The manual also said that to use the host TOS ROMs jumper J7 has to be closed (2-3). If it's open the PAK will try to use the ROM chips that are mounted on the PAK board.
http://www.klapauzius.net
http://dbug.kicks-ass.net/klaz

The tears are welling in my eyes again, I need twenty big buckets to catch them in, twenty pretty girls to carry them down, twenty deep holes to bury them in.
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4469
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Klapauzius wrote: As far as I understood the PDF manual, you can only fit the modded TOS 3.x ROMs on the PAK itself.
I think if you want to use 2.06 the TOS ROMs have to be installed on the host machine.
Ah...well crap. :) That would pretty much explain why its not booting up then. :roll:

(and hope I didn't damage anything!)
Klapauzius wrote: The manual also said that to use the host TOS ROMs jumper J7 has to be closed (2-3). If it's open the PAK will try to use the ROM chips that are mounted on the PAK board.
I did try that. From your earlier text, I tried J7 both open and closed. It didn't make any difference.

So its looking like I'm going to have to try to find some way to burn 3.06 ROMs for use with the PAK.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks.

PS Hmm, that makes this advertisement a bit misleading (about TOS 2.06):
PAK030 Advertisement.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
Klapauzius
The Klaz
The Klaz
Posts: 4302
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2004 7:55 am
Location: Bavaria
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by Klapauzius »

Yeah, the manual is not 100% clear about the TOS ROMs. :wink:
Did you try removing the 2.06 ROMs from the PAK board?
And you have 2.06 on the host machine?
http://www.klapauzius.net
http://dbug.kicks-ass.net/klaz

The tears are welling in my eyes again, I need twenty big buckets to catch them in, twenty pretty girls to carry them down, twenty deep holes to bury them in.
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4469
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Klapauzius wrote:Yeah, the manual is not 100% clear about the TOS ROMs. :wink:
Did you try removing the 2.06 ROMs from the PAK board?
And you have 2.06 on the host machine?
No, because I didn't realise where they were actually supposed to be, I didn't remove them.

Nope, this is a STacy, so it has STacy TOS v1.04. Which is somehow different from all other
TOS 1.04 versions. We did a TOS dump because Brad at Best Electronics said it was unique
and Ralcool looked at it. He said it was different than the other versions. Brad also said that
his TOS 2.06 boards would not work with it because of this version of TOS. This came up
because I had inquired about buying one for my STacy in the past. So for Ralcool's HD floppy
mod, I've been soft-loading TOS 2.06. But I don't see how softloading would work here, unless
its accessed (floppy or mass storage device) *before* the PAK actually kicks in?

Not sure on the order on how that would work. I guess I could try it.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4469
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Okay, quick follow up and then I've *got* to get some sleep... :(

I pulled the TOS v2.06 ROMs from the PAK board itself. I checked J7 and
it was already set in the 2-3 position. I tried booting up - same white screen.

Just for the fun of it, I tried J7 in 1-2 and totally open. Still same white screen.

Softloading is not going to work. The floppy drive or mass storage is never
accessed when you power up with the PAK board installed, as it is right now.

So I guess my only option is to try to figure out how to get the PAK TOS 3.06
ROMs burnt by someone.

Anyone know a good source for that? :)
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4469
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Okay, I've got an Atari guy over at AtariAge who can burn the Eproms for me.

I've got the ZIP archive with the four 128kb PAK TOS images.

I just need to know what kind of Eproms are needed for this.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
frank.lukas
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:33 pm
Location: Germany

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by frank.lukas »

128kB x 8 eprom´s 32pin DIL
fancy Atari Musik anDA Dance "Agare Hinu Harukana" 1998 ATARI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX10fxb5eYE
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4469
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

frank.lukas wrote:128kB x 8 eprom´s 32pin DIL
Awesome, thanks for the fast response! :)
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
artik-wroc
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: Wroclaw - POLAND
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by artik-wroc »

DarkLord wrote:I just need to know what kind of Eproms are needed for this.
27C010, 27C1000 or 27C1001
http://artur.ataritt030.info/fotki/pak/pak2.jpg
mdivancic
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:59 pm
Location: Lyman, Maine USA

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by mdivancic »

DarkLord:

Do you have a standard ST you could try the board in? The Stacey is just strange enough that it could be complicating you troubleshooting. Just a thought?
Mikey
Atari STacy 1
Atari TT030, CaTTamaran, 4 MB ST-Ram, 16 MB TT-RAM, ECL2VGA
Atari 800XL
Amiga 2000HD
Commodore 128D, 1084S monitor, RAMLink, CMD 4.1GB Hardrive
Commodore C64 Reloaded Mk2
Commodore SX-64
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4469
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

mdivancic wrote:DarkLord:

Do you have a standard ST you could try the board in? The Stacey is just strange enough that it could be complicating you troubleshooting. Just a thought?
Yep, the STacy TOS is just a little different, but I'm going to try not using that route at all.
Working on going with the onboard modified PAK TOS 3.06, at the moment.

I do have a couple of other ST's lying around - but only the Mega ST that runs my BBS has
an already socketed CPU.

If worst comes to worst, and I can't get it going, I'll try it on that machine. Thanks for the
suggestion.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4469
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Update:

At Frank Lucas's suggestion, I contacted a user in Germany who apparently
still has a lot of PAK related info/items.

He's agreed to compile a US based modified PAK TOS v3.06 version and send
it to me! I can't thank him enough for his efforts.

Here is what he had to say about how TOS ROMs work with the PAK:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Ronald,

Some hints:
All these combinations work fine:
TOS 2.06 on the Atari mainboard, no ROMs on the PAK, or ROMs on the PAK disabled
TOS 2.06 on the Atari mainboard, TOS 2.06 (4 ROMs, no patches required) on the PAK
TOS 2.06 on the Atari mainboard, TOS 3.06 (4 ROMs, with PAK patches) on the PAK

With TOS 1.xx on the Atari mainboard things are different:
After reset the ROM on the mainboard tell the CPU to jump to $FC0030, which is ok for TOS 1.xx.
But with TOS 2.06 or 3.06 we need a jump to $E00030.

In the PAK-patches for TOS 3.06 a so called boot-patch is included, which does the job.
But this patch is only tested for the German version so far.

Anyhow, I am going to compile an english version, with this patch included, and then let us see.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So lets keep our fingers crossed - sure would be a great Christmas present! :)
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12939
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by wongck »

DarkLord wrote: So lets keep our fingers crossed - sure would be a great Christmas present! :)
WOW DL, would really be a nice Xmas present... a Stacy that runs faster than a TT. :D
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4469
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Take a look at this gang. If you thought it was crowded in there before,
or that the T25 boards were big, well... :)
PC210002.JPG
PC210005.JPG
You'll notice I also managed to pick up a 68882 chip, so I'm assuming I
have to close J3 to enable it.

I also picked up a Pupla/2 board. This small board is supposed to act as
a cache between the PAK and the motherboard, helping with stability and
timing problems.
PC210007.JPG
PC210011.JPG
Still waiting on the modified TOS 3.06 Eproms. Love to find a working FRAK
board too!

So much to do...baby steps, one thing at a time, as Sean says... :)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
ralcool
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 693
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Australia

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by ralcool »

Now I'm being quoted... Must be wery careful what I say right?? ! :lol: .

The Pupla/2 is a buffer board- a signal booster if you like.

If one ever got a hold of a Panther/2 .. the ISA bus interface- the Buffer board would near essential.

You'll notice quite a number of Atari IDE interfaces have built in buffer logic since the Datalines go right to the cpu.
Not really an issue unless stupidly long cables are used. My cable is around 8-9 inches long and works fine.

Looking good Ron.

ST.
4160STFM, (Blitter, 4Mb RAM 72pin, 16Mhz OC, IDE, HD FDD, Quad TOS, LaScan, DS1216E Clock, AT-Speed C16, Tom Kirk PS2 mouse, MegaST Keyboard)
What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away
Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy
Don't let post count or join date fool you as to who is a newbie, and who knows what's what
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4469
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Holgar Zimmerman has come through.

I've now got a recompiled (into English) modified PAK TOS 3.06 four Eprom
set.

I've forwarded them to Sloopy at AtariAge who will burn the four 128k Eproms
and send them to me.

Then I'll be ready for my next PAK board attempt. :)

PS Can I legally upload them here so that everyone that needs them has access,
or is that a no-no? Thanks.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4469
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Well, Sloopy has been sick, and I think he's backed up on SIO2PC orders,
so its apparently going to be a little while before I get the Eproms.

So...I've tooled around with a couple of other things.

I was concerned about everything packed in so tight, so I've added some
insulation to the bottom of the power supply board and the PAK board:
PC280001.JPG
PC280002.JPG
On the PAK board, I also glued two square semi-hard foam blocks to one
side. I did this so that the PAK board is more stable when inserted into
the socket. Otherwise, it tips over very easily,

Here are some shots of the power supply headers and how I had to bend
them over about 45 degrees or so. Again, something else that had to be
done to make room for the PAK board:
PC280004.JPG
PC280005.JPG
PC280006.JPG
Is this fun or what? :)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
Dal
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4199
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:31 am
Location: Cheltenham, UK
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by Dal »

DarkLord wrote:Can I legally upload them here so that everyone that needs them has access,
or is that a no-no? Thanks.
It's a grey area - technically the ROM's are Atari copyright. But these are modified ROM's supplied by the PAK developers (Who I imagine would have distributed them under license?) - and then modified AGAIN into English.
For the sake of keeping everything together, upload the PAK-modified ROM's to this thread. It may serve a purpose to anyone lucky enough to acquire a PAK board in the future.

If there's a complaint about them, I'll take them down.
STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4469
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Dal wrote:
DarkLord wrote:Can I legally upload them here so that everyone that needs them has access,
or is that a no-no? Thanks.
It's a grey area - technically the ROM's are Atari copyright. But these are modified ROM's supplied by the PAK developers (Who I imagine would have distributed them under license?) - and then modified AGAIN into English.
For the sake of keeping everything together, upload the PAK-modified ROM's to this thread. It may serve a purpose to anyone lucky enough to acquire a PAK board in the future.

If there's a complaint about them, I'll take them down.
Alright, sounds good. Thanks Dal! :)
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4469
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Post by DarkLord »

Okay, here are 2 sets of the modified PAK TOS 3.06 version Eproms.

Here is the German set:
306GERPAK.ZIP
and here is the recompiled English version:
306USPAK.ZIP
If nothing else, I sincerely hope that this helps keep these files from
disappearing into the void, and that someone else can use them.

We've lost too many things over time, as it is...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520
Post Reply

Return to “Hardware”