Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

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tiago
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Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by tiago »

Hello,
finally i have my Atari 520 ST, i arrived today.
It's working with an new external and floppy drive. But i dont have an Atari Mouse. I try with 2 Amiga mouses, but they dont work correctly, the pointer looks mad.
As i remember i need to swap some wires inside mouse, is that it? Can you tell me witch wires? Do you have any docs about it? Or can i do an adapter from DB9 Atari to DB9 Amiga?

Thanks.

Photos from my new Atari 520 ST here:
www.lobodias.com
(click atari link)

Cheers
Tiago
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frank.lukas
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by frank.lukas »

Pin Atari Amiga
1 XB YA (V-pulse)
2 XA XA (H-pulse)
3 YA YB (VQ-pulse)
4 YB XB (HQ-pulse)
5 NC MBUT
6 LBUT LBUT
7 +5V +5V
8 GND GND
9 RBUT RBUT
fancy Atari Musik anDA Dance "Agare Hinu Harukana" 1998 ATARI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX10fxb5eYE
tiago
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by tiago »

so it's just swap pin 1 with 4 ?
what about the pin5? what is the Atari NC , Amiga Mbut ? Mbut=middle button?
frank.lukas wrote:Pin Atari Amiga
1 XB YA (V-pulse)
2 XA XA (H-pulse)
3 YA YB (VQ-pulse)
4 YB XB (HQ-pulse)
5 NC MBUT
6 LBUT LBUT
7 +5V +5V
8 GND GND
9 RBUT RBUT
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frank.lukas
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by frank.lukas »

Mbut = middle button that´s right.

Atari don´t use the PIN 5 !
fancy Atari Musik anDA Dance "Agare Hinu Harukana" 1998 ATARI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX10fxb5eYE
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nativ
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by nativ »

tiago wrote:Hello,
finally i have my Atari 520 ST, i arrived today.
It's working with an new external and floppy drive. But i dont have an Atari Mouse. I try with 2 Amiga mouses, but they dont work correctly, the pointer looks mad.
As i remember i need to swap some wires inside mouse, is that it? Can you tell me witch wires? Do you have any docs about it? Or can i do an adapter from DB9 Atari to DB9 Amiga?

Thanks.

Photos from my new Atari 520 ST here:
http://www.lobodias.com
(click atari link)

Cheers
Tiago
Cool early model ST!

You can use the mouse pointer ( at least in later versions of TOS) by holding down control and using the arrow keys with 'insert' becoming the left mouse button and 'clr/home' becoming right click.


If you are doing desktop stuff you might want to look at 'Seltos' so you can load a later version of TOS in!

Does your model have TOS in ROM or on floppy?


:cheers:
Atari STFM 512 / STe 4MB / Mega ST+DSP / Falcon 4MB 16Mhz 68882 - DVD/CDRW/ZIP/DAT - FDI / Jaguar / Lynx 1&2 / 7800 / 2600 / XE 130+SD Card // Sega Dreamcast / Mega2+CD2 // Apple G4

http://soundcloud.com/nativ ~ http://soundcloud.com/nativ-1 ~ http://soundcloud.com/knot_music
http://soundcloud.com/push-sounds ~ http://soundcloud.com/push-records
tiago
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by tiago »

Does your model have TOS in ROM or on floppy?
In Rom.
but it takes a lot of time till the sreen comes. 30 seconds i guess... but it works fine.

About the mouse, i open an old Amiga tank style mouse, an i swap pin 1 by 4. but dont remove pin 5. If atari dont use it, do i need to remove the pin?
anyway with only pin 1 swap with 4, the cursor goes always in same direction, when i click button 1 it changes to other direction .... 8O
What am i doing wrong? the mouse has the pins numbers, so i am sure i swaped 1 to 4 and 4 to 1. should i remove wire from pin 5 ??

thanks
tiago
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by tiago »

if it is:
pin/atari/amiga
1 XB YA (V-pulse)
2 XA XA (H-pulse)
3 YA YB (VQ-pulse)
4 YB XB (HQ-pulse)


Should i:

In amiga mouse:
take wire from pin 4 and put in pin 1
take wire from pin 1 and put in pin 3
take wire from pin 3 and put in pin4
keep pin 2 in pin 2

??
I try it 1 minute ago, didn't work... i just dont know if i have to cut wire/pin 5...

help please !!
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by wongck »

tiago wrote:
Does your model have TOS in ROM or on floppy?
In Rom.
but it takes a lot of time till the sreen comes. 30 seconds i guess... but it works fine.
on the ST with fixed floppy drive, this is most likely because it is looking for a floppy.
So may be you need an external floppy drive and pop in a 360K or 720K diskette (depending on the drive).
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frank.lukas
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by frank.lukas »

fancy Atari Musik anDA Dance "Agare Hinu Harukana" 1998 ATARI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX10fxb5eYE
tiago
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by tiago »

Yes, i saw that site, and i did the swaping as it says.
but still no good.

I just wnat to know to start, if i have to cut pin 5.... the Atari ST don't use it, so i wounder if i have to cut it in amiga mouse
thanks
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frank.lukas
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by frank.lukas »

Pin 5 on the Atari Mouse Port is no connected, so you must not cut the PIN 5 in the Amiga Mouse.


The original Atari Mouse Circuit Diagram
Image
fancy Atari Musik anDA Dance "Agare Hinu Harukana" 1998 ATARI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX10fxb5eYE
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frank.lukas
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by frank.lukas »

... a example form a Atari/Amiga Mouse

Image
fancy Atari Musik anDA Dance "Agare Hinu Harukana" 1998 ATARI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX10fxb5eYE
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frank.lukas
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by frank.lukas »

Image

Amiga Mouse
fancy Atari Musik anDA Dance "Agare Hinu Harukana" 1998 ATARI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX10fxb5eYE
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1024MAK
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by 1024MAK »

frank.lukas wrote:Image
Amiga Mouse
Looking at this diagram one thing does not look right. The "double diodes" (next to the H LED and the V LED) are either IR photo diodes in which case they are drawn the wrong way around (in this diagram they need to be "upside down" and not as shown, as they need to be reverse biased not forward biased). Or they are in fact IR photo transistors (like in some of the diagrams earlier in this thread), this is the more likely arrangement. Note that a lot of photo transistors only have two leads (there being no connection pin for the "base" of the transistor).
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by 1024MAK »

The easiest way to use an Amiga mouse with an Atari computer (if you don't want to mess with the mouse, or you want to try various different mice) is to make up an adapter lead. Either use an old mouse lead, an old joystick lead (check that they have wires to all the required D - connector pins, some don't have all the connections) OR cut a mouse / joystick extension cable in "half", you can then use a simple terminal block in a small plastic case.

Code: Select all

 Atari Mouse							  Amiga Mouse
Pin  Function						 Pin  Function
1    XB......................... 4	HQ
2    XA......................... 2	H
3    YA......................... 3	VQ
4    YB......................... 1	V
5    not used / NC.............. 5	Middle button
6    Left button................ 6	Left button
7    +5V supply / Vcc........... 7	+5V supply / Vcc
8    Ground / GND / 0V.......... 8	Ground / GND / 0V
9    Right button............... 9	Right button

On the Atari STFM computer pin 5 is not connected internaly.
Atari to Amiga Mouse Adaptor Lead.png
The above details should be correct (but I have not double checked it yet! :lol: )
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by tiago »

thanks for the answers ! :)

but, in electronics i a am = 0 (zero).... maybe below zero...

i can understand the diagram "atari to amiga mouse adaptor lead" it's easy, pin to pin, only 1 and 4 are swaped. Easy !!

I try to do that inside the amiga mouse.
What i dont understand is: inside amiga mouse (tank) i see the Jp1 were the wires are connected. It has numbers from 1 to 9. I assumed, so
if i have to swap pin 1 with 4, i guess i have to go to JP1 and swap 1 with 4, that's what i did. But in the diagem (the big one), the JP1 has:

1 blue wire 1
2 grey wire 8
3 green wire 6
4 yellow wire 5
5 white wire 9
6 red wire 3
7 brown wire 2
8 black wire 1
9 orange wire 4

Looking at the mouse i see that what originaly is
in JP pin (hole number 1) is the black wire 1
in JP pin (hole number 4) is the orange wire 4

so i just remove the black wire in hole number 1 and orange wire in hole number 4 and swap them. didn't work...
but this diagram has JP (8) with black wire and JP (9) with orange wire ...... 8 and 9 not 1 and 4 .... i am confused .... 8O :?:
sorry but i don't understand to much of this stuff, i allready bought an atari mouse, but i want to do this anyway!!!

Thank your very much
Tiago
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by 1024MAK »

tiago wrote:thanks for the answers ! :)

but, in electronics i a am = 0 (zero).... maybe below zero...

i can understand the diagram "atari to amiga mouse adaptor lead" it's easy, pin to pin, only 1 and 4 are swaped. Easy !!

I try to do that inside the amiga mouse.
What i dont understand is: inside amiga mouse (tank) i see the Jp1 were the wires are connected. It has numbers from 1 to 9. I assumed, so
if i have to swap pin 1 with 4, i guess i have to go to JP1 and swap 1 with 4, that's what i did. But in the diagem (the big one), the JP1 has:

1 blue wire 1
2 grey wire 8
3 green wire 6
4 yellow wire 5
5 white wire 9
6 red wire 3
7 brown wire 2
8 black wire 1
9 orange wire 4

Looking at the mouse i see that what originaly is
in JP pin (hole number 1) is the black wire 1
in JP pin (hole number 4) is the orange wire 4

so i just remove the black wire in hole number 1 and orange wire in hole number 4 and swap them. didn't work...
but this diagram has JP (8) with black wire and JP (9) with orange wire ...... 8 and 9 not 1 and 4 .... i am confused .... 8O :?:
sorry but i don't understand to much of this stuff, i allready bought an atari mouse, but i want to do this anyway!!!

Thank your very much
Tiago
You have fallen in to the trap of assuming that electronic items are assembled in a logical way! :lol:
In your Amiga mouse I suspect that the 9 way D connector and the connector inside the mouse are not wired pin to pin.
It is very common in electronics for a manufacturer to have a wire or lead with connectors at each end, but with each wire connected to a different numbered pin in each connector. So for example at one end a pink wire would be in say terminal 1, but at the connector at the other end it would be in another terminal, and not in terminal 1.
It is still possible to do the change inside the mouse, but you will need a item of test equipment to work out which wire goes to which pin of the 9 way D connector.
If you can fully unplug the internal connector inside the mouse then you can use any low power continuity tester (or even a torch and some wire).
If however you cannot fully unplug the internal connector inside the mouse then you either need a low voltage and low current continuity tester (suitable for use on electronic equipment) or a multimeter.
If you do not have anything suitable you can make a simple continuity tester using some wire, a battery, a resistor and a LED (light emitting diode) for very little money.
Then by testing from each wire to the pins of the D connector you can work out which ones to swap.
The pictures I include should help.
D connector male plug 9 way pin connections.jpg
Note that the resistor shown in this picture does not have the correct colour code painted bands for the value required.
The parts needed are one 100 Ohm 5% 1/4W resistor, one standard 5mm red LED, a battery with a voltage of 3 volts (so two 1.5V AA size cells in a suitable battery holder would be fine) and some wire.
simple continuity tester s.png
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Visit the Atari-Forum Wiki. Lots of technical info at DrCoolZic Atari ST Site :D
tiago
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Re: Mouse - swap wires in Amiga mouse

Post by tiago »

Done !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :cheers: :D
thanks everyone.

In Amiga "tank" mouse:

DB9 connector - pin in circuit:

pin 1 in DB9 connector is Pin 3 (brown wire) in mouse circuit
pin 2 in DB9 connector is Pin 7 (red wire) in mouse circuit
pin 3 in DB9 connector is Pin 4 (orange wire) in mouse circuit
pin 4 in DB9 connector is Pin 6 (yellow wire) in mouse circuit
pin 5 in DB9 connector is empty, it does not have a wire
pin 6 in DB9 connector is Pin 2 (blue wire) in mouse circuit
pin 7 in DB9 connector is Pin 9 (grey wire) in mouse circuit
pin 8 in DB9 connector is Pin 5 (white wire) in mouse circuit
pin 9 in DB9 connector is Pin 1 (black wire) in mouse circuit

so,
DB9 pin 1 is pin 3 in circuit and
DB9 pin 4 is pin 6 in circuit
so i swaped 3 with 6 in circuit ! It worked !

I did the lamp test just like 1024MAK said: :cheers:
the cut wires on the picture, were tests, i was swaping pin 1 with 4 in the circuit, but pin numbers on circuit did not correspond to pin numbers in DB9 connector.
Then i swap some more to try... no luck... but with the lamp test it was easy.
It now works fine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Image
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