Modified ST hassles

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ralcool
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

Thanks nativ.. Outside. by Uwe. (I also grabbed the HDDRIVER demo)

While the translation is a bit sketchy - it seems to be what I was asking about. I downloaded it- and will try it sometime. When I have a CF/HDD running.

I've found my etching chemicals, and two old spare blank pcbs.. So I'll start by making the ROM IDE. (I'll need to order a larger board for the ram mod)

Thy will be done Wonky.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

Since I'm basically sitting here waiting for parts (ICs & sockets) to show up. I've continued playing with ExpressPCB. Its fun actually. Therapeutic...

So I've traced out the High Density upgrade mentioned on the Atari Hardware page. A nice little two chip design for the internal drive. 144_ctrl.zip. (Although there IS a GAL version project for two drives- The external socket lacks enough pins to pull it off easily... so why bother)

This logic version selects an 8 or 16Mhz clock for the WD1772. Using the HD sense pin on the drives to operate a NAND gate & multiplexer when accessing Drive 0 (A) to select which frequency.

Can't see myself fitting it my ST, (already have a clever GAL based one) but I'll build them for others who are interested. Maybe do a small run of them. (Yes I'll test / verify the design too.....)

Just use TOS 2.06 or a driver patch. (Available around the traps... :) ) Great mod for an STE.

In a few months time there will be another baby being born- So I'm getting busy NOW having a nostalgic play with the Atari. This week should see parts arriving, and things being built and tested.

If anybody wants to buy anything I build- Like a 72pin ram adapter, or a High Density Mod- or perhaps even the LASCAN or 16mhz overclock hack. TELL ME. (I could even- with permission from Popsel, knock out some cpu mounted ide adapters for ST/F/M/FM/Megas using his basic design) You will see the prototypes when finished- on this page/thread.

I WILL validate these mods very shortly. If they work- I can tell the expressPCB people to make some professional boards- and divvy up the costs. (Although their boards aren't cheap..) or hand make a few.

These aren't MY designs, just schematics and pinouts- turned into pcbs. Not for profit, just costs, labour and fun.. (Can't wait to drill 150odd holes for the ROM IDE mod.... 8O sigh)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

I love reading the work of engineers. Have you read this blog? Our very own Atari ST developer/ programmer Landon Dyer


http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=995

http://www.dadhacker.com/blog/?p=1000
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by Shredder11 »

ralcool wrote:
If anybody wants to buy anything I build- Like a 72pin ram adapter, or a High Density Mod- or perhaps even the LASCAN or 16mhz overclock hack. TELL ME. (I could even- with permission from Popsel, knock out some cpu mounted ide adapters for ST/F/M/FM/Megas using his basic design) You will see the prototypes when finished- on this page/thread.
I've only got 3x STE and 2x Falcon 030 so everything I get is geared towards those. There is one project I would like help making though. I have a 16MHz 68000 PLCC CPU on the shelf waiting to be used in a plugin board, maybe one that has the IDE interface as well. If not combined then maybe a seperate small board with the extra components the 16MHz upgrade needs. So to summarise, an IDE interface; a CPU in the usual socket on the motherboard with wires going to a small board with the extra components to make it work, plus a speed switch. I suppose I will keep the TOS ROMs in their usual location, as I have a dual configuration being made for me by Alison at the moment. The 16MHz hack you mention is obviously connected with this, so whichever route I take the STE will have a 16MHz upgrade! :mrgreen:

The High Density Floppy chip mod is of interest to me, as I have a few nice Sony 920 drives on the shelf.


Thanks ralcool, you have been absolutely great and....WELL DONE....ANNNDD.........GOOD LUCK WITH THE LITTLE ONE WHEN HE/SHE ARRIVES! :cheers:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by nativ »

ralcool wrote:Thanks nativ.. Outside. by Uwe. (I also grabbed the HDDRIVER demo)

While the translation is a bit sketchy - it seems to be what I was asking about. I downloaded it- and will try it sometime. When I have a CF/HDD running.

I've found my etching chemicals, and two old spare blank pcbs.. So I'll start by making the ROM IDE. (I'll need to order a larger board for the ram mod)

Thy will be done Wonky.
Nice too find what you were after exists!

I have an English manual for Outside, from when it was 'for sale' I will scan this up, if its in English. Are there no English docs?

IDE on an STe?

Ideal upgrade spec for my STe - 16Mhz (or more)cached PCI adapter (Graphics(as CT63?) & sound card (EMU 404? DSP Yamaha SWG1000) TT Fast RAM. HD Floppy. ( SD /IDE ) + 8 MIDI outs and 4 in! :o)

how about a 16MB 72pin STe upgrade?

Regards

Nativ
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by Shredder11 »

Oh and yes, I have read the blog you mention which is a quite brilliant and engrossing read! Shame he has not done any further blogs about the ST but those two pages are a mine of information.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

Minor problem- I don't have an STE.

HOWEVER- the ROM mount IDE project would work on the STE... simply an adjustment to the rom orientation for the IDE IF. add a few wires and presto. It looks like it would fit under the floppy in the rom sockets. (15mm height clearance), I can figure out the spacings and placement from motherboard images scattered around this forum. Basically swap the chips left to right. And check floppy mounting post clearance.
Don't forget- this is wired for flashable TOS too!


Now fitting your 16mhz cpu. Being PLCC it will fit the original socket. Now its a matter of cutting the CLK signal (pin15), wiring in the 16mhz switch mod (with an added divide by 2 counter for the motherboard 32mhz clock source) I'll be testing the concept on my STFM motherboard, the trace to pin 15 is easy enough to cut or restore.... gasp. I'll be overclocking the original 8mhz chip though. Anything could happen. I'm assuming the mod is sound from the info provided.( CPU AS & BG controlled clock switching.) Don't hold you breath. Although overclocking a PlayStation 1 worked for me once. (33-45Mhz)
At least your cpu is rated to 16mhz :)

Its REALLY difficult to do any modifications like this without any form of soldering at least one wire to somewhere.

Even the High Density adapter (ST or STE) will need some solder. Unless you have a socketed WD1772/Ajax chip. Then still nearly possible.... ROM jumper link E6 needs connecting.

Its an adventure....We're hardware hacking now people- bring out the iron! !

To Nativ;

Fitting 72pin simms to an STE is close to impossible. Fitting 30pin simms to 72pin sockets has been done before- But the other way is at least VERY difficult. Unless we wire direct to the mmu. And THAT needs a clever piggyback attachement to the GSTMCU (hahahahehe), or someother difficult way to pickup data and address lines to ram. Looking at the STE schematic, I just can't see an easy option.

And 30pin simms can be found in many places. As for graphics and DSP.... Maybe you need a Falcon. But show me a diagram for the infamous 14Mb ST/TT ramupgrade (+mmu) and I'll make it!
I do plan to wire my old SB16 Midi daughterboard.. a Roland Sound Canvas to the midi ports soon. Fur Elise or Moonlite Sonata on midi.....
http://atari.nvg.org/db50xg/

Yes the Outside link was in German.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by nativ »

ralcool wrote:Minor problem- I don't have an STE.

ok sorry! At least you have an ST!

Don't forget- this is wired for flashable TOS too!

I'd still like either TOS 2.06 + Magic/NVDI/Jinee on a ROM or FreeMINT / Magic for the Falcon



Even the High Density adapter (ST or STE) will need some solder. Unless you have a socketed WD1772/Ajax chip. Then still nearly possible.... ROM jumper link E6 needs connecting.

OK

To Nativ;

Fitting 72pin simms to an STE is close to impossible. Fitting 30pin simms to 72pin sockets has been done before- But the other way is at least VERY difficult. Unless we wire direct to the mmu. And THAT needs a clever piggyback attachement to the GSTMCU (hahahahehe), or someother difficult way to pickup data and address lines to ram. Looking at the STE schematic, I just can't see an easy option.

OK

And 30pin simms can be found in many places. As for graphics and DSP.... Maybe you need a Falcon. But show me a diagram for the infamous 14Mb ST/TT ramupgrade (+mmu) and I'll make it!

Yeah Ok! I was thinking along the lines of possible upgrade paths... And if .... there was a PCI soloution for the ST/e then such cards would make good software for ST/CTFalcon

Do you mean the 68030 board for the ST?

How about using the method adopted for the PC cards AT286, etc?

I do plan to wire my old SB16 Midi daughterboard.. a Roland Sound Canvas to the midi ports soon. Fur Elise or Moonlite Sonata on midi.....
http://atari.nvg.org/db50xg/

This is a great idea, the old sound cards go for peanuts or to the skip!

any other soundcards I might look out for ? are you just going to jump the MIDI via the thru? and power off the PSU? Or jump power input to another PSU?

Yes the Outside link was in German.
Righty ho

I'l scan up my manual.

I might even upload the settings file if that helps?


Regards

Nativ
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Re: Modified ST hassles

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I found today while looking at the Mega ST schematic for another thread.

The Megas run a second set of 74LS244 driver/buffer chips for their ram.. Not on the just data bus this time. They- like the ST, have 74LS244/373s buffering and latching for the shifter/ram DATA

The megas ALSO buffer the address & RAS/CAS lines. (Clocked with WE) I suppose when you have upto 32 ram chips sucking on the mmu, a little help might go a long way.

Maybe I'll stick a pair of 244s on the 72pin adapter. Except then it needs 16 new 33ohm resisters on their outputs (sort of like the ST does direct from the MMU)...maybe not then.

Plus 4Mb on a 72pin stick only has 8 chips. Less load I would think.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

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Gawd.. You think you have a process down pat.....

So many attempts tonight to print a pcb mask onto clear OHP paper.

My (ebay) ink is crap, runny, poorly printed tracks..... Grrr, I go visit a friend-use his HP printer with OEM ink. not much improvement. What?????

Come home.....Mess around with printer settings trying to improve result.. Start to, then the head must be getting hot. 'Results may vary'..... 'Kin hell.

My old Lexmark inkjet printer (long dead) worked perfectly on this kind of paper. (OR maybe the paper was better). Gives me the 'insert favourite expletive'.

Even if the mask works out- positive resist boards don't have a set time to develop... So could blow it all anyway. Give me strength.

How I did so many in the past succesfully is a fading memory. Just one print out please... Buy me a Laser Printer someone.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by Shredder11 »

All printers are owned and worked by the Devil. Everyone knows that... :twisted:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

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OK. The GALs arrived today. Still waiting on the LS03s & sockets. Sourced some replaced transperant paper. And printed nicely!

So we are developing right now. Then into the etching bath. ROM IDE IF coming soon! ish.

Just deciding whether to use an LPT -2- GAL programmer hack, or dedicated device. Worked for Kym..... And still need to flash the new patched TOS roms (27f010s) . But not essential for testing.

Arrrggg, I'm missing TOPGEAR!


I hope this ancient PCB resist.....still works....30mins of 'light' time. Into the bath.

Photos coming of the process....
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Re: Modified ST hassles

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Fail. Sorry, The Board coating was too old. Old Long term Light damage (a bubble in the protective coating) caused a major botch.

The board was 95% perfect and overexposure to the developer (trying to erase the blotch) chem killed it.

I have one (smaller) board left. And its too small for IDE pcb I'll just get some new stock. ...

Damn.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by Shredder11 »

Arrrghhh that is a bummer for you! At least the printer seems to be sorted though.

Whereabouts do you live? I'm in Yorkshire in the UK and I have an STE that you could borrow perhaps. However it only has TOS 1.06 and they are not socketed, but you are welcome to borrow it if you can solder some sockets in for me. Regards the TOS, I am patiently waiting for techie_alison to make my dual 1.62/2.06 EPROMs.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

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Dude, Sadly I live in the FAR south. Australia. A hell of a long walk and a plane ride.

Having to desolder your roms is a bummer. or you could piggyback them. Quite a bit easier to solder too. I hope you can find someone to help . :(

I'm confident the overclock mod will work. I guess we'll see. Can't wait. I will definately need the disable switch I reckon for AT-Speed mode.

I wonder if the IDE will be affected by the higher speed.......

Time will soon tell.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

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Hurrah, The 72pin socket arrived today. Lines up perfectly with the 'custom component' I came up with for it.

Not bad for a little guess work. Spacing of centre mounting hole 'vs' pins, and pin offsets.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

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Did anyone EVER find a rom dump of TOS 2.08? (Ala STBook)......
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Re: Modified ST hassles

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Well, ALL the ICs have arrived. Just waiting on their sockets.. And some replacement PCBs.

Must buy some photo resist spray (PRP200) for the 'used' boards, or try that print and peel transfer stuff.... A borrow a laser printer to use them.

Slow going I know, but the airport delays haven't helped things. But I should be able to build everything soon. 16Mhz overclock, HD Floppy (For experimenting/testing for others, I don't need it), LASCAN, 72pin RAM upgrade, and the ROM IDE IF.

Phew. A little bit of soldering to do.

I am also looking at building an EtherNEC device. I have a spare pnp NE2000 RTL8019 card. But lets go slowly.

ROM IDE first. Even if Simbo doesn't like them. Not being DMA and all that..... :)

Seen the prices on 68000 cpus or SCSI-1/2 HDDs on ebay lately... Holy Crap. You can buy 68030/040s cheaper than the 68000 originals!
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

Pile of parts. (Enough to build nearly 2 or 3 of everything... at least the ICs anyway- would need extra sockets/header pins for some things)

Image

Decided to buy TOP853 EEPROM / GAL /Flash / Everything, programmer. $A60. I'm sick of building devices that support one kind of chip. This puppy is pretty good by the write up.
Ala...
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/TOP853-USB-unive ... 5ad84d278f

(The 'PCB3' Willem I got a while back, just plain sucks..no documentation, lousy software, adapters needed for anything odd. (PLCC types excepted and acknowledged) Fine.

Only The PCBs, and 'wire wrap' socket strips needed for final product. (WireWrap types have heaps longer pins. Great for mounting through pcbs, and having enough length to fit into sockets underneath- like removed Video shifter chips/ ROMS / CPUs, and reinsert on top!)

Not long now.

An image of the etch process before the photo resist layer gave up.....

Image

With a spare IC or two, I'm tempted to make a 'DEAD BUG' style overclock circuit just to ease the boredom.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

Someone has a HC version 68000 cpu for sale. 16Mhz rated too!

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MC68HC000FN16-16 ... 5882f1819a
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

Where do I find these....?

Image

PLCC 68pin adapter to fit IN the socket... A bit like that SCSI board uses for the STE CPU remove and relocate. Would be fantastic for FPU/IDE/ something else.....I dunno, ET4000 VGA ISA slot.....
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

I've been playing 'Zork 1' on the 286 emulator (AT-Speed).... hehe
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by Shredder11 »

Hmmm...just checked my browser favourites for PLCC stuff and found this from http://www.epboard.com/, which is not the same but they may also stock what you are after. They have a custom made to order page here http://www.epboard.com/eproducts/cusadapter.htm

http://www.epboard.com/eproducts/parts/EPL-0068.htm

Image
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

Cool, but DAMN expensive...(with shipping to Oz). I'll hunt around for options, but this may be a way to use the blitter socket for IDE AND FPU. (Because I WANT too) I still need a GAL assembler tho......

I CANNOT find the "GAL-Assembler V1.2, (c) May 18 1992 by Ulrich Hack" that ppera used ANYWHERE. (To create a GAL 20V8 to do Chip Select for an FPU... instead of logic gates...)

Thanks Shredder11!!!!
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by Shredder11 »

I've had a quick look for the program you mention but no luck :? Are you registered at Pperas own forum because you could maybe ask him for it there.
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