Modified ST hassles

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by DarkLord »

ralcool wrote: SelTOS will run from the auto folder too.
I'll try it here before I go to bed (worked 12 hrs last night).

Dang real world job getting in the way of what I really love
to do... :)

EDIT: Okay, I tried it - I forgot I don't have my keyboard hooked up
right now, but it does get as far as asking which TOS version to load.
I guess that's a good sign. I'll have to try it again when I get my
keyboard hooked back up (maybe this evening if I wake up in time).
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by DarkLord »

Woke up in time. :)

Well, as far as I can tell, while RAMTOS7 and RAMTOS7B do not work, SELTOS does.

It booted up, said it found one image (the same TOS UK one we've been using) and
when I pressed 1 it loaded it up.

<shrugs>

I'd still rather it work without having to wait for me to press a 1 or any other key
but its better than not working at all. :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

Hmm, Weird. Perhaps Ppera might be able to explain that.

At least as you say- something is working. A bit of a relief really.

.........

On a different note, since we now know that a RTC is quite easily installed to used or even unused TOS sockets- I don't have to worry about integrating it into the companion
TOS ROM board for the CPU mounted IDE/TOS controller.

The companion board is needed since we are still adapting 32pin ROM chips to 28pin sockets, and we have to let the 'IDE/TOS' control GAL perform address decoding to operate their CE pins.
Not to mention multiTOS selection, or flash writing ability. :roll:

Hopefully it won't be too much longer before I can build something to show for my efforts on CAD. (Mail day tomorrow... please please please.....)

ST. :cheers:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by spiny »

ok, i bought one of these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110792250237? ... 1439.l2649

DS1216C DIP-28 DALLAS SmartWatch/RAM 16K/65K16K/65KR

is that the right one ? (I hope so !)

£9.16 all in, won't be here for a few weeks though, but it'll be a nice surprise when it turns up :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by spiny »

this may be a daft question, but how does it remember the time ? i can't see a battery in the ebay image on the auction i used. do i need to knock up an extra board somewhere ?
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by spiny »

ah, the pdf on this page:

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... _133410_-1

says it has a battery in it :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by wongck »

spiny wrote:ah, the pdf on this page:
LOL... it's called RTFM.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

Ahhh, Well actually it should be the 'E' version. DS1216E

The 'C' type is for SRAM chips, and the 'E' type for ROMs..... a minor detail, but important. (It deals with how the RTC gets accessed)

I'll repost up an ebay UK link Spiny for a Hong Kong seller. (Not many around it seems)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SmartWatch-RO ... 3a4fd00035

Dunno how it (the 'C' version) will run.. I'm looking deeply at the datasheet. I'm having doubts. :( ... still, I'd try it anyway.
Or cancel the order. The link I have posted is a little more expensive.. but the right type.

As you have seen, it has an internal lithium battery good for 10yrs they reckon.

The only reason I even looked at using this chip is that my original 'Supermon' cartridge had one. And its internal battery did go 'flat'... so I bought a new one months ago.
I just recently asked the question if we could use it (the Dallas chip) with some alternative 'driver' to access it, or even perhaps write something new.

Mark showed something he found that answered that question perfectly... need I say more. (To say I was on the moon is an understatement... you made my day man!).

Supermon is a cool device.. but leaving it plugged in just for the clock- honestly , is annoying.

After reading the datasheets, I realised this chip was made for the job. And the schematics of the original Mega ST clock isn't pretty.... Not fun to clone.

So, back to you,
Basically you bought the wrong one.....No matter, its not an expensive mistake.

Bugger. (I am really sorry to break the news my friend :cry: ) ...

I do though agree with you- having a functional internal clock is somehow fascinating. :D (Like, somehow its alive.... now I'm completely crazy... :roll: )


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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by spiny »

ah well :D

bought the 'right' one as well ... :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by DarkLord »

ralcool wrote:Hmm, Weird. Perhaps Ppera might be able to explain that.
At least as you say- something is working. A bit of a relief really.
ST. :cheers:
Okay, I'm pretty firmly convinced now that the problem is indeed the STacy's
strange TOS 1.04 version and not the STacy itself.

Here's why...

This evening I had removed my T25 and put the PAK board back in, playing
around a bit... I forgot that I had a 2gig SD card in the Ultrasatan that had
RAMTOS7 in the AUTO folder (where I had been trying to get it to work).

Well, after the PAK board booted up using its own 3.06 ROMs, it ran the
software from the AUTO folder on the Ultrasatan and RAMTOS worked! It
loaded up the TOS 2.06 version that we've been using.

This tells me that its the STacy TOS version that is causing problems.

I passed another IMG dump version along to PPera. He's supposed to take
a look at it and see if he can come up with something.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

PS If I manage to get the PAK crammed into the STacy, this is all pointless
anyway, but if I can't, well...I like to keep my options open... :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

I'd have to say- you've convinced me rather firmly too.

The even better part is- he has a piece of code that DOES work.. ala SelTOS.. and basically need only remove the
need to choose a TOS version and simply load the first TOS image it finds.

Finding out why RAMTOS is bugged is more for his benefit. The source code is provided for both programs- and they otherwise look 98% identical.

You have a PM.

ST.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by DarkLord »

ralcool wrote:I'd have to say- you've convinced me rather firmly too.

The even better part is- he has a piece of code that DOES work.. ala SelTOS.. and basically need only remove the
need to choose a TOS version and simply load the first TOS image it finds.

Finding out why RAMTOS is bugged is more for his benefit. The source code is provided for both programs- and they otherwise look 98% identical.

You have a PM.

ST.
Yes, worst case scenario, I've got SELTOS to fall back on for my T25.

GTG right now, no time but I'll play with that PM a bit later. :)

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by wongck »

DarkLord wrote: This tells me that its the STacy TOS version that is causing problems.
IIRC, there was a tos version that does not do auto start programs correctly. Can this be the issue?
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

Given SelTOS is functional- I'd suggest auto folder loading is ok in his machine.

I've given Ron some 'ideas' in a PM I can't reveal for now.

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by wongck »

ralcool wrote: I've given Ron some 'ideas' in a PM I can't reveal for now.
Whoa.... suspense thriller.... :lol: :lol:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by DarkLord »

Sean, can you look at another TOS dump I did from my STacy? Reason
being, when I sent PPera the same file I sent you before, he examined it
and said it was bad.

This time, instead of using TOSDUMP, I used his ROMIMAGE file. I reckon
both do the same thing.

Anyway, I'm just curious because he is saying that the 2nd dump I did
is identical to regular TOS 1.04, no difference.

Which would really baffle me and put me back to square one on his
software.

Oh well, where's it written that it would all be easy, eh? :)
STacy_TOS_Dump.zip
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

Well that is weird.

The second dump you carried out- is identical to my normal TOS1.4 US 'dump' I have on file. (I used the US version since that is your region)

And, Certainly not identical to the first one you sent..... Strange now it matches a proper 'normal' US version. (The first had many 'blank' areas)
So he was right- the first dump could be considered 'bad'. Since now it matches a regular TOS.

Seems now we're back to a point where the STacy TOS 1.4 isn't unique.

I think he might look closer at why SelTOS works and RAMTOS doesn't. The source code is like I said.. almost identical
except for some extra lines to pause and choose a TOS.... comparing them revealed they are basically the same.

RAMTOS is like a slightly simplified version- and still contains most of SelTOSs multiTOS selectable code.
A few jumps and branches for user selection have been removed, thats it.


I can't figure out why it doesn't work.

ST. :cheers:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by DarkLord »

He sent me a PM at AtariAge.

He is leaning towards the modification I've done to the
STacy. I don't think so. Reason being, I never could get
it to work back when the only thing I had changed was
using a Satandisk - the one before Ultrasatan. It was an
external version too. I hadn't even opened up the STacy
at all at that point in time.

The other idea he offered is that its something I've done
to my SDcards - some setting in HDDriver that is not
standard, and that odd difference allows something like
a newer TOS like 3.06 on the PAK to work with it, but not
TOS 1.04.

I've got 3 cards beside my STacy right now. One is a 1gig,
one is a 2gig, and one is 32megs - setup for easy file transfers
between an ST and Windows.

I can't get it to run from any of them. I can't help but feel its
something simple, probably trivial that I'm just overlooking
on this end.

Currently I'm using HDDriver v8.15. A couple of weeks ago,
I purchased the update to the latest version (8.41, I think?).
So I'm thinking I'm gonna grab another fresh 2 gig SDcard,
format it using nothing but default selections, and put nothing
on it but an AUTO folder with his software, and RTOS.IMG in
the root directory of C, and then see what happens.

Man, its early/late here - gonna go grab a few hours sleep.

Be back in a while. :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

Ahh ok, So RAMTOS has never worked on either SatanDisk or UltraSatan.

With or without the T25... I didn't realise that.

But oddly you've discovered the PAK030 with its modifed TOS 3.06 runs either version. (And those TOS modifications should be irrelevent)

Since SelTOS does run on the T25- and should ok on the stock Stacy too, and its seriously almost identical in code to RAMtos.. the problem must be programming like I said.

Something was deleted during code removal that broke it. I don't see a hardware problem here.
DarkLord wrote:He sent me a PM at AtariAge.

I never could get it to work back when the only thing I had changed was
using a Satandisk - the one before Ultrasatan. It was an
external version too. I hadn't even opened up the STacy
at all at that point in time.
So RamTOS has never worked until the PAK030 was fitted. But by what you've said- SELtos does work- and should have even with your original STacy.

The problem isn't specific to the T25 then. Its the normal STacy too..... I didn't realise that.

Weird. And the use of either program is useless anyway with the PAK :roll:

Like I say the code for both programs is the almost the same- one is a reduction, something was broken during code removal.

ST.

Using purely deductive logic here... :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by DarkLord »

Er, we need to keep SELTOS and RAMTOS separate though, because they
do behave differently, at least in my case.

I've never been able to get RAMTOS to work on my STacy. With the Satandisk,
Ultrasatan, etc, *except* from floppy. RAMTOS does work from floppy.

SELTOS on the other hand, has always worked for me, as long as I ran it
from the desktop. It worked with Satandisk before, and Ultrasatan when I
got it. I have never thought to try it in the AUTO folder until you mentioned
it.

I think I'm gonna go pull the BBS down and see what RAMTOS and SELTOS
does on my TOS 1.04 equipped Mega ST4.

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by DarkLord »

Bah.

Meh.

Sheesh...

Okay, I'm just totally flummoxed. Seriously, I don't know what to think.

I took RAMTOS, SELTOS and RTOS.IMG (the TOS 2.06UK image we've been using)
to the Mega ST4 that runs my BBS.

Same weird results. I put RAMTOS (and I tried RAMTOS, RAMTOS7, well, every
version I have) in the AUTO folder, with RTOS.IMG in the root directory of C.

Nothing, nada. It does just like it does on my STacy. It says TOS loader by P.Putnik
then goes straight to the normal TOS 1.04 desktop with no loading or relocating
message.

If I boot it up from a floppy drive, RAMTOS in the AUTO folder, with RTOS.IMG in
the root directory of the floppy disk, it works fine - loads up TOS 2.06 as expected.

Now, I can run SELTOS from the C partition and it will find and load up RTOS.IMG,
giving me a TOS 2.06 desktop. However, I did note that the screen has a lot more
flicker than it normally does. Its not kicking the SC1224 monitor down to 50/PAL
mode is it? Never noticed that on the CRT I was using for a display with my STacy.

Anyway, go figure. RAMTOS apparently will not work on any TOS 1.04 machine I
have here. I don't have any TOS 1.00, 1.02, or 1.6x machines to try it on.

I could try it on my Mega STe...but...kinda pointless. :)

At this point in time, if I wind up using the T25 in my STacy, I'll just be using SELTOS
in the AUTO folder. :roll:

I think I'm getting (more) grey hair over this... lol
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by 1024MAK »

It sounds like the code that processes the file path in RAMTOS is not coded to cope with the presumably different code for "hard" disk access in the different TOS versions.
The later TOS versions are suppose to have better "hard" disk code.
If as Sean says, RAMTOS skips sections of "existing" code due to different/added jumps, maybe one of those sections deals with setting up the correct path :mrgreen:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

I have managed to learn sofar- the bug is in an added section of code that deals with checking if it has been previously loaded.

RAMTOS, When run from the autofolder- and has found and 'relocated' a new ROM image. It then reboots the machine into it.

This extra piece of code then normally prevents RAMTOS from running a second time under the new TOS by detecting it has already run.

For some reason.. this doesn't work for Ron. The original RAMtos program never finds the new TOS file- aborts, and drops into the old existing desktop.

Inexplicably- when this section of code is removed- RAMTOS will finally detect an image in the c: root folder for Darklord/Ron, and loads it. Half curing his problem.
But then it does so again on every reboot.... a loop begins and never ends, until it consumes all the available RAM- it never gets to detect that it was previously run.

Ron has found that RAMTOS doesn't work at all unmodified, on any of his TOS 1.xx STs, unless it happens to be booted by FDD.
Strangely the PAK TOS3.06 does manage to load from c:\auto ... wierd eh.

I'll admit- I've been editing the source code to try and work out the reason... this is what I know. (I removed the self check because it looked strange..gut feeling)
It turned out to fix the loading/searching problem, but broke the 'ignore me after the job is done and let the Atari reboot without me this time'

My ST for some reason won't even boot TOS1.4 from ROM anymore- So testing edited versions of RAMTOS has been rather difficult!

ST.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by DarkLord »

Sean, I know you've been following my "First Pak Attempt" thread... since
all my problems seemed to be centered around the floppy drive, (at Alan's
suggestion) I disabled the HD mod using the paperclip short like we did
before when I was testing it.

Well, it worked. With the HD mod disabled, the PAK doesn't crash after 17
-18 minutes, and it doesn't crash whenever I eject a floppy disk.

I know, not having a PAK in front of you, and probably never having seen
one in real life (I know I hadn't until I bought the darned thing!), it would
be hard to speculate, but would you have any thoughts on why there would
be a conflict between the PAK and the HD mod?

If we can't figure out a solution, I'll have to pick and choose between a
STacy with a T25 accelerator and a nifty 1.44m floppy, or a STacy with a
PAK 68/3 but a stock 720k floppy. Bummer eh? :(

Thanks!

PS I'm going to e-mail Holgar Zimmeran and see if he has run into this
before.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by spiny »

re: dallas clock chip

one of the two i ordered turned up yesterday and just found time to have a look :)

basically, it just works....

Image

Image

plug it in, run the software to tweak the time (the date was already right :D ) save and reboot, and thats it :)

the only 'issue' is that i'll need to move it to the back ROM socket as the keyboard touches it when at the 'front'

frankly, I'm amazed :D cheers Ral for the info on this !

i will also try the other chip when it turns up, I suspect the 'right' one is the one i have here, though there are no markings on it to say what model it is.
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