Modified ST hassles

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wongck
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by wongck »

Silly_Pony wrote:
DarkLord wrote:/ s i g h . . .
Crack a smile, it won't hurt.

Unless you've just had that botox stuff put in. Best to do it slowly.
sigh... What's up with you guys??
I don't go to Amiga forums and rant about Atari being good or bad.
Don't poison this thread.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by Silly_Pony »

wongck wrote:
Silly_Pony wrote:
DarkLord wrote:/ s i g h . . .
Crack a smile, it won't hurt.

Unless you've just had that botox stuff put in. Best to do it slowly.
sigh... What's up with you guys??
I don't go to Amiga forums and rant about Atari being good or bad.
Don't poison this thread.
And I'm not doing the opposite so?? Mate you've got a complex.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by spiny »

Silly_Pony wrote:
wongck wrote:
Silly_Pony wrote:
Crack a smile, it won't hurt.

Unless you've just had that botox stuff put in. Best to do it slowly.
sigh... What's up with you guys??
I don't go to Amiga forums and rant about Atari being good or bad.
Don't poison this thread.
And I'm not doing the opposite so?? Mate you've got a complex.
if you want to compare the relative merits of ataris and amigas, please start a new thread, thanks.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by Zogging Hell »

nativ wrote:My fiendish idea was to build a board similar to what you suggest Bid,

using something like a Raspberry Pi, connected in a similar fashion to a PC Speed or similar board. allowing access to the pi through TOS as a 'power up' giving IDE or USB support and able to run on it's own as a host computer?!

:cheers:
Ahem back on topic, I really like this idea, it would be like a speed boost where needed, plus it offers a kind of future upgrade prospect, in that Arm chips, look set to be the only future alternative for Intel shy computer users (I'm not a big fan!). I did wonder how easy or hard it would be to recompile EmuTOS or similar to run on the Pi..
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by DarkLord »

wongck wrote:
Silly_Pony wrote:
DarkLord wrote:/ s i g h . . .
Crack a smile, it won't hurt.

Unless you've just had that botox stuff put in. Best to do it slowly.
sigh... What's up with you guys??
I don't go to Amiga forums and rant about Atari being good or bad.
Don't poison this thread.
Amen Wong. Neither do I, but if you were to go back and carefully examine
SP's 50+ posts here at AtariForum, you'd be surprised at just how many have
a pro Amiga/anti Atari stance.

Now, having said that, let me apologise to Sean for letting this go completely
off topic, and I'll not respond to any other off-topic posts of this nature (we
tend to go a bit far afield here, Sean said some latitude was okay, but I surely
don't think this is what he meant).

Good day all. :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by bid »

Zogging Hell wrote:
nativ wrote:My fiendish idea was to build a board similar to what you suggest Bid,

using something like a Raspberry Pi, connected in a similar fashion to a PC Speed or similar board. allowing access to the pi through TOS as a 'power up' giving IDE or USB support and able to run on it's own as a host computer?!

:cheers:
Ahem back on topic, I really like this idea, it would be like a speed boost where needed, plus it offers a kind of future upgrade prospect, in that Arm chips, look set to be the only future alternative for Intel shy computer users (I'm not a big fan!). I did wonder how easy or hard it would be to recompile EmuTOS or similar to run on the Pi..
I'd had the idea earlier, as I have been experimenting with Arduino, that the Arduino Duemilanove development board http://www.arduino.cc/ would be a good way to easily add standard ports without having to design or build a PCB. The Auduino is about £15, and has USB port, serial, and is easy to connect to SD-Card and Ethernet stack. All the driver routines are all written, and the compiler is free. All you have to do is write the software.

All one would have to do is write the software, for the following for example:- Making an Ethernet capable device for £15 + approx £10 for the Ethernet module. Could use the ASCI or Serial port, use existing Atari drivers, but script in to use the TCP/IP stack.

Another one, would be to patch into the ASCI signals, and talk to it. But use the Arduino's SD-Card shield. Which is also quite cheap. So you have an UltraSatan + NetUSB for about £25 in total. All it requires is a bit of scripting on the Amtel chip, which is designed to be programmed by a novice, but powerful enough to do a surprising amount. As they are so popular, they are very cheap, and there is lots of help and forums that will tell you how to for example, write a simple TCP/IP stack. There is plenty of documentation on how ASCI talks for example, so its just a matter of making the Arduino talk ASCI, and using such development boards, you can actually listen to your Atari talking, through the PC software development environment, which if free.

Im looking for an excuse, and some time to learn more about PIC programming. And probably the easiest one to start with would be probably making something that talks to the serial port. Maybe links to TCP/IP on the Ethernet socket.... Actually, thats a lie. Cos ive got something else I want to build 1st, once I have some time. Im def going to use Arduino, but I have a little MIDI project in mind.

The Rasberry Pii, looks good value at £25. But I have no idea how you would utilise the hardware on it with an Atari. Seems a bit like moving too far away from what the Atari is to me? ... Mind you, what I like about these type of development boards is that they are made in such massive numbers, that they are very very cheap. And plus there are lots of standard connectors on them, for USB, SD-Card and the like. So, if the IC is programmed to talk to the ST in a standard way, e.g. ASCI, or maybe in other ways, then you have access to a standard board, that only requires a software program on it, and ready to go. No GALs, as the programming is done on the board via USB or serial interface from a PC.

I think that the Pii is a little too powerful, and besides, I like to know that my 68000 is hard at work. lol. But then again, it does have video/VGA. If it were possible, the only thing I would use it for, and it would be a waste, lol; would be to shift video in chunks from the Atari (using say a Galaxy or Nova driver) and just splat that out to its VGA. ... I do however think that a easy to source development board, with a progamable IC, and a range of connectors on board (USB, SD-CARD, Ethernet) would make a very good alternative to desiging a new board from scratch. And its ready made, plus cheap due to its ubiquity.

But personally, I would stick with SD-Card, Ethernet, USB (for a mouse or poss USB drive one day). And that would be it. ... I think (and Im guessing a bit) that things like speeding the ST up, or adding memory, or even using the processing power of such a PIC would be very hard indeed, if not impossible. ... Although saying that. If the board runs linux, then maybe the ST could access it via a terminal shell. But why is beyond me. lol

I just like the idea of using a very cheap and ubiquitous development board that is around £20, just for its comms ports, and the fact that the subroutines to run them are already written. Then a small programming job, to make it talk ST, and easiest on the ASCI, making it talk to existing drivers (STiNG, HDRIVER, etc etc). But access its nice and tasty Ethernet, SD or USB port. This one for example http://www.robotshop.com/dfrduino-ethernet-shield.html

That would be an alternative to making or designing a custom board for an "ultimate upgrade". But no memory, extra MHz, or anything fancy. Just Ethernet, SD Card, and USB via ASCI interface and a little scripting.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by bid »

Zogging Hell wrote:
nativ wrote:My fiendish idea was to build a board similar to what you suggest Bid,

using something like a Raspberry Pi, connected in a similar fashion to a PC Speed or similar board. allowing access to the pi through TOS as a 'power up' giving IDE or USB support and able to run on it's own as a host computer?!

:cheers:
Ahem back on topic, I really like this idea, it would be like a speed boost where needed, plus it offers a kind of future upgrade prospect, in that Arm chips, look set to be the only future alternative for Intel shy computer users (I'm not a big fan!). I did wonder how easy or hard it would be to recompile EmuTOS or similar to run on the Pi..
I'd had the idea earlier, as I have been experimenting with Arduino, that the Arduino Duemilanove development board http://www.arduino.cc/ would be a good way to easily add standard ports without having to design or build a PCB. The Auduino is about £15, and has USB port, serial, and is easy to connect to SD-Card and Ethernet stack. All the driver routines are all written, and the compiler is free. All you have to do is write the software.

All one would have to do is write the software, for the following for example:- Making an Ethernet capable device for £15 + approx £10 for the Ethernet module. Could use the ASCI or Serial port, use existing Atari drivers, but script in to use the TCP/IP stack.

Another one, would be to patch into the ASCI signals, and talk to it. But use the Arduino's SD-Card shield. Which is also quite cheap. So you have an UltraSatan + NetUSB for about £25 in total. All it requires is a bit of scripting on the Amtel chip, which is designed to be programmed by a novice, but powerful enough to do a surprising amount. As they are so popular, they are very cheap, and there is lots of help and forums that will tell you how to for example, write a simple TCP/IP stack. There is plenty of documentation on how ASCI talks for example, so its just a matter of making the Arduino talk ASCI, and using such development boards, you can actually listen to your Atari talking, through the PC software development environment, which if free.

Im looking for an excuse, and some time to learn more about PIC programming. And probably the easiest one to start with would be probably making something that talks to the serial port. Maybe links to TCP/IP on the Ethernet socket.... Actually, thats a lie. Cos ive got something else I want to build 1st, once I have some time. Im def going to use Arduino, but I have a little MIDI project in mind.

The Rasberry Pii, looks good value at £25. But I have no idea how you would utilise the hardware on it with an Atari. Seems a bit like moving too far away from what the Atari is to me? ... Mind you, what I like about these type of development boards is that they are made in such massive numbers, that they are very very cheap. And plus there are lots of standard connectors on them, for USB, SD-Card and the like. So, if the IC is programmed to talk to the ST in a standard way, e.g. ASCI, or maybe in other ways, then you have access to a standard board, that only requires a software program on it, and ready to go. No GALs, as the programming is done on the board via USB or serial interface from a PC.

I think that the Pii is a little too powerful, and besides, I like to know that my 68000 is hard at work. lol. But then again, it does have video/VGA. If it were possible, the only thing I would use it for, and it would be a waste, lol; would be to shift video in chunks from the Atari (using say a Galaxy or Nova driver) and just splat that out to its VGA. ... I do however think that a easy to source development board, with a progamable IC, and a range of connectors on board (USB, SD-CARD, Ethernet) would make a very good alternative to desiging a new board from scratch. And its ready made, plus cheap due to its ubiquity.

But personally, I would stick with SD-Card, Ethernet, USB (for a mouse or poss USB drive one day). And that would be it. ... I think (and Im guessing a bit) that things like speeding the ST up, or adding memory, or even using the processing power of such a PIC would be very hard indeed, if not impossible. ... Although saying that. If the board runs linux, then maybe the ST could access it via a terminal shell. But why is beyond me. lol

I just like the idea of using a very cheap and ubiquitous development board that is around £20, just for its comms ports, and the fact that the subroutines to run them are already written. Then a small programming job, to make it talk ST, and easiest on the ASCI, making it talk to existing drivers (STiNG, HDRIVER, etc etc). But access its nice and tasty Ethernet, SD or USB port. This one for example http://www.robotshop.com/dfrduino-ethernet-shield.html

That would be an alternative to making or designing a custom board for an "ultimate upgrade". But no memory, extra MHz, or anything fancy. Just Ethernet, SD Card, and USB via ASCI interface and a little scripting.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by nativ »

The Rasberry Pii, looks good value at £25. But I have no idea how you would utilise the hardware on it with an Atari. Seems a bit like moving too far away from what the Atari is to me? ... Mind you, what I like about these type of development boards is that they are made in such massive numbers, that they are very very cheap. And plus there are lots of standard connectors on them, for USB, SD-Card and the like. So, if the IC is programmed to talk to the ST in a standard way, e.g. ASCI, or maybe in other ways, then you have access to a standard board, that only requires a software program on it, and ready to go. No GALs, as the programming is done on the board via USB or serial interface from a PC.

I think that the Pii is a little too powerful, and besides, I like to know that my 68000 is hard at work. lol. But then again, it does have video/VGA. If it were possible, the only thing I would use it for, and it would be a waste, lol; would be to shift video in chunks from the Atari (using say a Galaxy or Nova driver) and just splat that out to its VGA. ... I do however think that a easy to source development board, with a progamable IC, and a range of connectors on board (USB, SD-CARD, Ethernet) would make a very good alternative to desiging a new board from scratch. And its ready made, plus cheap due to its ubiquity.

I was thinking something like screen eye. I saw that demo'd at an Atari Show, live video fed into a Gem desktop window. So 'possibly' it would be nice to have the Pi fed through to GEM in this way? and used as a video adaptor, don't know much about that! Or Mp3 streaming ( I had suggested a possibly project using an eZ80 to do this and give super Spectrum Support) Alternatively if you could use the ST from the Pi in a PAK board kinda way?

If a crossover board could be made from the pi then no doubt it would be somehow possible to use with other pieces of historic technology :) like the upgrade board that is available for the XE.

I wouldn't turn down a hybrid machine, that I could do Real Atari things with and a whole lot more! A simple project based on the Arduino would be equally appreciated.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by Shredder11 »

I very briefly had the Matrix ScreenEYE on my first Falcon 030 and was very impressed by it. I later sold it for £60 to help decrease the initial cost of my Falcon 030, which the card came with.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by 1024MAK »

:arrow: What do people think about adding another processor to an Atari ST? :?:
The keyboard already has its own processor... :mrgreen:
Some other computers have "slave" processors (e.g. IBM / PC compatible keyboards have their own processors, the Sinclair QL has a "slave" processor that handles the keyboard, half the serial port circuits and the sound).
The Acorn BBC B and more so, the BBC Master computers when they had "second processors" added, the original internal MPU became only an input / output controller 8O ...

I have no problem myself with having extra "slave" processors in "old" hardware. If these modern fast "slave" processors can add features and/or speed up input / output operations, this frees up computing time for the 68000... 8)

Indeed, there is no reason why an extra modern fast "slave" processor could not request to take bus control from the 68000, then it could DMA direct to an expanded RAM... 8)
This extra modern fast "slave" processor (with its own very large RAM buffer) could have FireWire/IEEE 1394b, USB 3.0, SDHC/SDXC, CF (CompactFlash Revision 6.0), SATA (Serial ATA revision 3.2)/eSATA, Ethernet 1000BASE-T (gigabit Ethernet), HDMI, DVI, DisplayPort 1.2 etc :angel: 8) :D :mrgreen:

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by exxos »

Faster ram is what I am trying to do, though as ram is directly tied into the shifter, that needs updating too. There are guys who have updated the ram to use dimms, so the ram would be ultra fast, really the mmu spends half its time refreshing the ram which isnt needed these days. Though its beyond me to program that, and the guys that have are not really intested :(

The cpu can be double cloked to 16mhz and maybe 24mhz for internal instructions, I'm building a flash 70ns rom board, actually i have 45ns flash but its i PLCC and its a pain to get it to wired to a dil format easily. In anycase, 100nS seem to be able to be pushed to 60nS so 70nS should be fine. Then at least the rom speed can been given a good boost. The MMU seems to cope OK at double clocked speeds, The rest of the ST is just going along at its own pace anyway.

Its going to be a long project, but there is progress :) Problem is the more hardware you change the more software is broken. Even a simple double clock is going to break some programs, raster demos may well get messed up, though oh well 8)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

1024MAK wrote::arrow: What do people think about adding another processor to an Atari ST? :?:
The keyboard already has its own processor... :mrgreen:
Some other computers have "slave" processors (e.g. IBM / PC compatible keyboards have their own processors, the Sinclair QL has a "slave" processor that handles the keyboard, half the serial port circuits and the sound).
The Acorn BBC B and more so, the BBC Master computers when they had "second processors" added, the original internal MPU became only an input / output controller 8O ...

I have no problem myself with having extra "slave" processors in "old" hardware. If these modern fast "slave" processors can add features and/or speed up input / output operations, this frees up computing time for the 68000... 8)

Indeed, there is no reason why an extra modern fast "slave" processor could not request to take bus control from the 68000, then it could DMA direct to an expanded RAM... 8)
This extra modern fast "slave" processor (with its own very large RAM buffer) could have FireWire/IEEE 1394b, USB 3.0, SDHC/SDXC, CF (CompactFlash Revision 6.0), SATA (Serial ATA revision 3.2)/eSATA, Ethernet 1000BASE-T (gigabit Ethernet), HDMI, DVI, DisplayPort 1.2 etc :angel: 8) :D :mrgreen:

Mark
Do you mean a bit like FNE was adding early 68000 cpus into Apple IIs @Dtack grounded, just before Mac et all took off? 8) http://www.easy68k.com/paulrsm/dg/

Or if you want to look at it- The SuperChargerXT was a DMA/ASCI attached parasite...I mean PC 8086 emulator- The ST operating as a giant biege video card really :lol:
http://www.atarimagazines.com/startv4n6/pcemulator.html

Currently that 3d cartridge (/cpu really) being worked on might resemble the beginnings of such a project..... link hmmmm.. you know it.

I guess Mark you'll end up using the ST as a terminal emulator instead then? :mrgreen: To an internal mounted arm dualcore processor ... maybe my old nokia phone. :!:

My workshop pc has blown another hdd- recovery is in progress. no data loss yet. Imminent mechanical failure.... praying to imaging gods.
The sounds leaving the drive aren't healthy.

Another day :roll:

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by 1024MAK »

What I am talking about is keeping the 68000 MPU to run applications and programs. But using the "slave" processor to provide high speed access to the modern high speed interfaces.
To help in this, the "slave" processor would have its own RAM, plus share some extra RAM with the 68000. This shared RAM would be "fast" or "TT" RAM (as in not connected to the ST MMU or ST Shifter). It would be connected to the 68000 bus via buffer/driver three state buffers, hence the "slave" processor could read / write to this shared RAM while the 68000 is busy doing other things on the ST bus (e.g. reading / writing to the ST RAM). A bonus with this arrangement, is that while accessing this new "fast" (or "TT") RAM, the 68000 could be clocked a lot faster. Maybe at 16MHz... 8)
Or the "slave" processor could use the bus control signals to take control of the 68000 bus (like the Blitter does) to transfer data direct to the ST RAM.
To tie this arrangement into the ST, some clever person will have to provide software to replace parts of the ST BIOS, XBIOS and TOS... or provide "drivers" in ST RAM...
If done correctly, well written software would still work okay :D Of course, software that directly accesses hardware or which uses unofficial ROM calls will break... :mrgreen:

If you want, the "slave" processor could be a 680x0 processor... Or it could be a non Motorola processor.

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by bid »

1024MAK wrote:What I am talking about is keeping the 68000 MPU to run applications and programs. But using the "slave" processor to provide high speed access to the modern high speed interfaces.
Im not a big fan of changing the power or the way the ST works theoretically.

... Lol. After all. There is nothing to improve in the machine. Its great anyway! :lol:

I do like the idea, of only enhancing or using the features that Atari intended. Like the IDE drivers built into TOS2.06. No additional software is needed, or new Roms etc. Its a feature from Atari. ... Same with extending ST Ram. An ordinary ST can handle 12MB I think. There has certainly been add on cards in the 80's and 90's that give a MEGA ST 12MB off the MEGABUS. I just like the idea of something that gives access to modern hardware and ports.

But then again, on this topic, I might add that there is a very cost effective, and easy to develop chip (apparently), which is called the "Propeller". Now the Propeller costs less than £10... But its got an integrated development environment for the PC called, "The Spin Programming language" and its designed to be easy to programme etc. The chip itself is a multi-core parallel microcontroller with eight 32-bit RISC CPU cores http://www.parallax.com/propeller/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_Propeller

Whats special about it? ... Well, its got built in VGA. ... Plus the ability to host USB, serial, flash etc.

Now, if you were to theoretically be adventurous. Then I would say with this, 1st step to make an interface. Say on the DMA. Then do just simpler things like, maybe the IDE or SD-Storage. Maybe use other things that use standard TOS, like IDE format on a CD Card or SD-CARD using the TOS2.06 implementation of IDE, and maybe just 'tweak' it so that its 100% compatible for slipping the card onto a Windows PC too. ... Then maybe later, someone might have a go at making a USB stick thing its a Atari drive with FAT16 or FAT32. Now then you have many cheap hard drives, and just a little Propeller chip doing the work.

Now, 2nd, if someone was crazy enough, or had the urge. Lift out the video memory, and replicate it in VGA on the Propeller. Just make a routine that replicates the ST video modes... But using the VGA out on a Propeller board. Then you have a VGA connector for your ST. For mono, for colour, and just use VGA monitor. ...

But wait, theres more. The VGA on the Propeller is pretty good. 8 RISC cores are not bad. Now heres a vid of a Propeller VGA output. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89M5rvolGGU ... Ok, not the clearest vid, and I saw it while I was investigating Audrino (which is less powerful). But, the Propeller can do quite a lot. Even some nice fast software 3D

So, 3rd crazy idea. Well, maybe if you were barmy enough to want to then put 3D effects into your ST game or demo, then you could signal to the Propeller, or at least give it hints. Maybe you dont need a software driver on the ST. The Propeller is just looking for certain things, and as a VGA video card effectively (bypassing the ST's clunky old shifter and custom video socket), the Propeller can do parallax, or take data delivered from the ST program, and say, do daft things that the ST shifter cant do. lol. i.e. the programmer just sets aside a seperate video memory in his ST demo, that the Propeller can also take and actually use for video. Of course the ST hardware itself could never do the video shifting that the Propeller can do.

Another alternative 3rd step, would be (and I am just talking pie in the sky here), is actually run a Nova or Galaxy type driver. But instead of the hard to obtain cards. The propeller uses its native 1600x1200 VGA. lol http://www.parallax.com/portals/0/help/P8X32A/QnaWeb/

Ok, so no writing of new drivers for the ST. No new roms. No complex upgrade. But the Propeller needs programming, and either use a standard dev/prototyping board from the Propeller shop, or a custom one, that just has VGA, PS2, USB and serial. So that tinkerers can play about. Update the Propeller with the latest software that has been compiled by the forum, and maybe, all these things could be achieved one by one. But a custom shield would need to be made to fit the Propeller to the ST's DMA, 68000 or some other but of brain. Same route as adding any PIC, but this ones got VGA and ... Ok, Im going out on a limb. But RISC and the Propeller is cool. And its a fun bit of kit for hobbyists. Its not really an Atari-like chip. But maybe they would have gone RISC multicore? lol

You know the Atari Transputer ATW was just a Mega ST mobo clunked onto some parallel microcontrollers, and so maybe I could justify a Propeller chip as being similar. Its £10, has 8 parallel RISC cores, connectivity to modern universal serial busses, and its designed to be as easy to progam as humanly possible, and it all fits on a board about 8cm square. ... If its transputery, then its (possibly) still Atari enough lol. ... All I'd transpute tho, would be a 1600x1200 colour VGA gem desktop. That would be enough to play GEM Elite windowed, and maybe having option just turning on ST, with no drivers and having VGA and IDE/SD or UDE/CF would be great on normal ST resolutions. Load up a Nova driver on your floppy, and your in super resolution world. Add a CF card, and you got every bit of software ever created on it.

... Maybe then add this kit to my ST http://www.parallax.com/tabid/768/Produ ... fault.aspx and I can fly it over to my desk. Lol. ... Check this badboy out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AX6RY3WdW4 :D
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by DarkLord »

That sure does sound awesome. I could just imagine my STacy with a replacement
VGA LCD and running those resolutions... :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by bid »

DarkLord wrote:That sure does sound awesome. I could just imagine my STacy with a replacement
VGA LCD and running those resolutions... :)
Yep. I was trying to stay within the realms of reality, and what would be possible with only amateurs, and cheap hardware. The Propeller is VGA, and even just having the ability to grab screen memory and pump it out to a standard VGA port would be cool. ... I'd think that the chip would have to be pretty fast, to have any chance of catching all that data from memory, even on a 8Mhz ST, I think that something would have to be as powerful as the Propeller.

VGA out of the back of the ST, even just standard resolutions, might be quite nice. Also makes fitting to monitors easy, and probably solve issues with screen borders and slightly incompatible signals? Switch resolution easily etc, without use of separate cables or switch box?

The fact that it runs 8 cores, might mean that it can also handle other tasks. Like the IDE on a separate process, or another task.

However, I have just got too far fetched again. Cos I have been watching what else you can do with the Propeller chip, and Im now wondering if I can fit a standard ST case to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQFHaAo4GdU

Really want to learn with these kits sometime. Might buy one, and have some fun. ... These kits look like making programming fun and accessible. You just buy the parts, the microcontroller and the board. And you can download the progam that runs it. And if your adventurous, improve on it.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by nativ »

Bid let your imagination run riot! let someone tell you it's not possible! and then three more people tell you it is! ;)

I hope amongst these project boards we can find something useful to benefit the ST.

Propeller , arduino, pi, etc
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by 1024MAK »

Careful now...Image
Before we all get carried away, I feel the need for some comparison of some facts:
The 68000 MPU uses a 23-bit external address bus (plus two other signals for lower and upper byte access) and a 16-bit wide external data bus. And then there are the bus control signals.

The Propeller chip has a total of 32 I/O pins and if you are using it to generate VGA video, the VGA mode uses up to 8 contiguous I/O pins.

So if you want to glue a VGA generating Propeller chip to an Atari ST, you will need something else (another MPU or micro-controller?) to allow them to communicate data...

But it's a nice idea :D
Maybe we need a number of "slave" processors... 8) :angel:

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

Bet you've been thinking I have something hot to reveal....

Not yet. sadly.. but not for lack of late nights and fuzzy eyes. I'm working on it.

There must be some kind of degree for pcb routing. Using basic tools to create complex circuits is stretching me right out.

The reengineered HD mod is functional- but still not fully tested for step rate hacking.. I had to convert the GAL code into a different syntax for burning. (Long story)
I managed to get the frequency switching working correctly- but I'm lagging on dissasembly in the ST to rewire my FDC chip to test further. Holger probably thinks I've disappeared.

Learning about GALs in general & programming as a result- and loving it.

Sorry. Just been busy. So much to do- and this 'little' project sucks time. We have runs on the board though. Everything built so far works.

Having encouragement from you lot makes me smile. This hobby has gone much further than intended. The easy stuff is done. :(

So, if you haven't read the other reply I did... The Project is up to here;

Almost all the routing to mount the ROMs and the IDE port on the CPU board is done. This is a single PCB now. Jumperable MultiTOS support too with internal reprogramming/flashing.
Its also being configured hopefully if it works, to let a ROM 'slot' function as a cartridge. There are 4 'slots'. :D .. This is where its at. Almost ready for alpha trials and good enough for most.

In addition;
I really want to squeeze acceleration on it too. I'll need the very GAL based version I'm making to pull it off for space restrictions.
Just how to connect in the 72pin socket for the 8Mb FastRAM is a challenge. A larger main GAL is under scrutiny.....
The wish list is huge. And its not easy.

I'd love to keep talking, but the kids will be getting hungry.... I do all the cooking too. :angel:

ST. :cheers:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by 1024MAK »

ralcool wrote:I do all the cooking too. :angel:
You're certainly whet our appetite... Image :D :lol:
Keep up the good work :mrgreen:

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

Mark, From what I've seen from you- you could do a better job. :oops:

I just try to commit a few hours a day to create stuff on cad. The end result will require some serious shrinking to be viable and usable.

The vision is there, but I'll say the result is almost art before function. A most wicked organised set of copper lines created organically.

I promise to work at it as much as possible. (You should see my homebrew project)... Beer is proof that God loves us .... :D

ST. :cheers:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by ralcool »

LMFAO

Seriously, Some days you kick yer self. :mrgreen:

Imagine, for a second. The amount of Sterilising crap for home brewing. Well... not that much actually.

But, I use Sodium Persulphate... very common, from NapiSan to Proper 'Food' grade stuff. Wash everything in a nice hot batch, then hot rinse. Down the drain.

Whatever... Now I've complained before about expensive (ish) Ammonium Persulphate as an alternative etchant for my pcbs. Ferric Chloride is getting hard to buy......

I prefer Ferric Chloride as it produces a clean etch... no ragged edges, lasts forever... but is toxic, expensive- and now hard to get. (Or I might actually try harder...)

But I've learnt tonight, and never thought of it- that Sodium Persulphate will also work as an etchant... As much as I like chemistry as a subject- I didn't even think of using it for pcb making.

I throw away at least a gallon everytime I clean my brewing keg!!!!,,, Maybe a quick filtration after a brew clean up- but its perfectly usable for etching I'd reckon. Its still hot and cleanish.
Can't be any worse than the Ammonium.

Next batch is a Coopers Lager done with a low temp 4-15*C S23 Saflager yeast for the current climate. Yum.

ST. :cheers:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by spiny »

spiny wrote:re: the RTC, the software seems to be fine on my ST, using the auto folder prog.


also, do you need to change the 'REV 2.2' on your board ? :D

back to the RTC clock for a second ...

I'm just going through my selection of hard drives and checking they all work before putting them into storage, and I happen to be using the STFM with the clock chip to do the testing.

an odd thisng though:

when booting from floppy, the clock displays.

but if i put the software (and .INF file) onto the hard drive, the clock does not display. the AUTO PRG doesn't give an error, and the setup PRG runs fine and can 'see' the chip properly.

Any ideas anyone ?

I haven't tried any other 'show a clock' PRGs yet, but i might have a play.

setup:

1040 FM, with Dallas clock chip
Gasteiner 10Meg ( :D ) Hard Drive
Auto booting with HDDriver 8.something
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by spiny »

update:

loaded the ACC that comes with the clock util and clicking it shows the clock, but without my saved config.

also, trying to set the clock after booting from floppy gives an error of 'bad config', so the chip may need looking at perhaps.

all very strange, but fun :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Post by thgill »

Sooo, any chance one of you guys are selling internal STe ide interfaces?

Would love to put a CF card into my STe.
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