ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

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wongck
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by wongck »

yerzmyey wrote: Still I agree we should check out the machine again with Pinokio's TV-set. What will be done in some time.
looks like your got to get the same brand of TV-set.
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by joska »

yerzmyey wrote:I connected the STe (via monitor port) into my the newest LCD TV-set with many systems.
I connected it into chinch (no antenna).
This sounds like you've tested the composite signal only. Have you tried RGB?
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by yerzmyey »

joska wrote:
yerzmyey wrote:I connected the STe (via monitor port) into my the newest LCD TV-set with many systems.
I connected it into chinch (no antenna).
This sounds like you've tested the composite signal only. Have you tried RGB?
Well, I must admit I'm not familiar with these methodes.
I just connect the machine to specific kind of TVs/monitors.

If You mean if I connected it into Commodore/Philips monitor (also only via chinch) then we could say - I didn't.
I have such a monitor but it's rather picky and works only with several machines (mostly with my Sprinter Spectrum 4Mb).

But that's another interesting idea then - I could check it out with some proper RGB monitor too.

However still I wouldn't understand how the machine can work finr for several months and then set itself up into another system. I know 'though - everything's possible with computers. ;)
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by joska »

yerzmyey wrote:If You mean if I connected it into Commodore/Philips monitor (also only via chinch) then we could say - I didn't.
I'm 99% sure that the problem is related to the RF modulator or the RGB->composite mixer circuit. It sounds like you've only tested composite and RF. You should try RGB as well.
yerzmyey wrote:However still I wouldn't understand how the machine can work finr for several months and then set itself up into another system.
I'm quite sure that this has nothing to do with NTSC vs PAL. The modulator in your STE supports only PAL.
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by DrCoolZic »

insanity wrote:
DrCoolZic wrote: FYI locations on ST, old STE and latest STE
Sorry to hi-jack this thread... but any chance of some full motherboard pics for the wiki DrCoolZic? :)

Thanks

baz
Why not! Not all good quality but I took over years pictures. Must have STF 512 & 1024, STE early (with piggy back fix), STE "standard", STE latest with many circuit made for Atari, and Mega 1
Where should I put it?
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by insanity »

DrCoolZic wrote:Why not! Not all good quality but I took over years pictures. Must have STF 512 & 1024, STE early (with piggy back fix), STE "standard", STE latest with many circuit made for Atari, and Mega 1
Where should I put it?
Quality isn't too important, I take them down to 150K - as long as the motherboard number is visible that would be cool!

Upload where ever is easiest... homepage/photobucket etc./ftp site/http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=13436... I'll do the rest...

Thanks

baz
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by 1024MAK »

From what has been said, it sounds like the oscillator for the colour sub-carrier has drifted off its proper frequency, completely failed or something similar :( .

This would not affect the RGB output available via the monitor connection but would affect the composite output on the monitor connection and would also affect the RF output on the TV "aerial" connector.

The oscillator for the colour sub-carrier is not part of the modulator so changing this would not have helped anyway.

I agree that the next step is to connect to a TV or old type monitor via a RGB lead (for example by using a RGB to SCART lead).
It would also help if you can find out what type of lead / connection when you used your friends TV.
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by yerzmyey »

1024MAK wrote:From what has been said, it sounds like the oscillator for the colour sub-carrier has drifted off its proper frequency, completely failed or something similar :( .
This would not affect the RGB output available via the monitor connection but would affect the composite output on the monitor connection and would also affect the RF output on the TV "aerial" connector.
The oscillator for the colour sub-carrier is not part of the modulator so changing this would not have helped anyway.
I agree that the next step is to connect to a TV or old type monitor via a RGB lead (for example by using a RGB to SCART lead).
It would also help if you can find out what type of lead / connection when you used your friends TV.
For now I did it with my own monitor: 1084S.
I got some chinch=>SCART connector from Pionkio (I use it sometimes for 8bit machines).

Well, it shows nothing on the screen of my own monitor. A grey screen.
I simultanously connected the STe into TV's antenna, so I was able to observer when the TOS desktop appeares.
In the moment of TOS' appearance there also appeares a single horizontal line - a bit brighter - on the monitor (STe connected with SCART).
That's all.

However we will be still trying.

Thanx, all!
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by joska »

yerzmyey wrote:For now I did it with my own monitor: 1084S.
I got some chinch=>SCART connector from Pionkio (I use it sometimes for 8bit machines).
I don't understand your setup. Is this a composite cable or a RGB cable? Cinch is a brand AFAIK, so this doesn't tell me what kind of connector you're using. Does your ST->1084S cable connect to the RCA (composite) or 9-pin D-sub (RGB) on the 1084S?
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by havoc »

if the monitor has scart, don't bother with composite video, picture quality will suck no matter what.

here's how to build a proper st->scart cable:

http://www.algonet.se/~guld1/hardware/atari-scart.html
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by DrCoolZic »

yerzmyey wrote:Well, it's even more bizzare. When I took the machine to my friend's home (a musician from Atari XL/XE http://8bitcollective.com/music/Guest/428/ ), the machine worked fine - with colours - plugged into a TV-set via monitor port (RGB).
Lets get back to this point. If you can get a colot output on a TV set with the RGB output it sound like the video on your Atari is OK and this implies that most probably the RF modulator may have problem.

So what you should try as mentioned above is to build/buy a decent DIN13 to SCART connector and try it on your TV set. Here of course PAL/NTSC does not matter.
If this work fine then it sounds like it is definitively the RF modulator that is broken. Did you try the RF output at your friend's home?

I am sure that you cannot take the RF output and use it with a SCART. The cinch connector (yellow) that you find on SCART cables or adaptors is NOT for RF output but for composite output so for sure this wont work!
simbo

Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by simbo »

some tv are more fussy than others about the colour subcarrier

in the ste on the right side under the floppy drive and just behind the serial port
is a crystal in a can it says 4.433618mhz
beside it is a small variable capacitor
they are bad for drift

i would note its position
then rotate it around this usualy cleans any muck off them its called c117
you may need to clean it with some ipa {isopropile alchohole}

if you do this
take the top off the atari and the plate behind the floppy off
then remove the three screws from the underside of the floppy
and watch out for the metal peg remember to remove it

then connect it up and lay the floppy backward so you can access this cap

turn it till you achieve good colour lock
most often its just got dirty with air particles and iron dust from the floppy drive

its also worth blowing the dust out and also

this can be a sign of a bad psu !!!
usualy the bridge rectifier &| capacitors need replaced

'it just appeared this fault' senario you describe sound more bridge rectifier than crystals
is the picture displayed bad atall ?? humbars etc poor sync when a floppy is accessed??

if so its prob the bridge rectifier
if not its probably the crystal's adjustment cap
if you know someone with a frequency counter
you can set it precisly using a X10 probe at the collector {center pin} of Q101
simbo

Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by simbo »

check pin 51 of the gst shifter chip u401 its behind the video socket large and square in a socket...

perhaps the ic has a bad connection or two
this is the colour subcarrier injection to the shifter pin
so if you use a glassfibre burnish pencil
maplin is £2 more
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?Tab ... &U=Strat15

ebay free 1st class post from uk supplier
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ABRASIVE-FIBRE-%2 ... 2002r11722

and carefully remove the ic using the correct ic remover
ebay 1.99 +free 1st class post from uk
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Motherboard-Circu ... 1e59d761b7
and clean all the pins using the brush quite tight to the tip so less white glass fibre tip shows

chances are when you plug it back youll have colour
also examine the socket pins and clean as needed
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by yerzmyey »

Hi there, after the Forum's break and replacing.
many thanx for Your statements, I'll do it as soon as possible.
Dunno when exactly as the guy I mentioned - Pionkio - has a second son since last week. ;)
So he's not as available as it was before. ;)
But we will try.
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
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