ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

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yerzmyey
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ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by yerzmyey »

Yo!

2 years ago I added an STe to my collection.
Nice one. In a good condition, 4Mb of RAM, well-working FDD.

It was working OK for several months. And then sadly I found - it display colours in greyscale only. It generates black&white screen, with greys instead of colours.

I tested it on regular antenna connector to TV-set - greyscale.
I tested the monitor output (with RGB monitor and with another TV-set with chinch video input) - the same. Greyscale.

I have one spare STfm (for electronic parts, if required).

What should I replace to get the STe working?

Greetz,
Yerz
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by nativ »

Hi,

What software are you testing with / running ?

Regards

Ashley
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by yerzmyey »

nativ wrote:Hi,
What software are you testing with / running ?
Regards
Ashley
Every demo, every game. Also TOS/desktop isn't green but grey.
No matter what video output I use. Very strange.
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by wongck »

Is it stuck at hi-rez?
check that the hi-rez pin on the video out is not shorted.
check the pins.ru site for the pin out.
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by Nyh »

wongck wrote:Is it stuck at hi-rez?
check that the hi-rez pin on the video out is not shorted.
check the pins.ru site for the pin out.
Nu, if it is stuck had high res you will not get a gray scale output.

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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by wongck »

Nyh wrote:
wongck wrote:Is it stuck at hi-rez?
check that the hi-rez pin on the video out is not shorted.
check the pins.ru site for the pin out.
Nu, if it is stuck had high res you will not get a gray scale output.

Hans Wessels
Oh yeah... I forgot that no o/p to TV on Hi-rez.
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by yerzmyey »

Well, I use 320/200 only. So what I mean isn't monochrome screen but 320/200 screen with greyscale instead of colours.
So it would be a low-res then.
Hm. That's a trouble.
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by Omikronman »

I have never hard about a problem like that. It sounds very strange and nearly impossible to me.
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by yerzmyey »

Omikronman wrote:I have never hard about a problem like that. It sounds very strange and nearly impossible to me.
Well, it's even more bizzare. When I took the machine to my friend's home (a musician from Atari XL/XE http://8bitcollective.com/music/Guest/428/ ), the machine worked fine - with colours - plugged into a TV-set via monitor port (RGB).
We were very surprised. I took it back home and checked out last times - still grey-scale. On every possible TV/monitor.
Well, it's a pity - I hope somebody could know what to replace.
Thx anyway.
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by joska »

Omikronman wrote:I have never hard about a problem like that. It sounds very strange and nearly impossible to me.
I've never heard of it either, but I don't think it's impossible. The RGB-lines are mixed in the RF modulator. If something's wrong with the modulator you could get results like this.
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by joska »

yerzmyey wrote:We were very surprised. I took it back home and checked out last times - still grey-scale. On every possible TV/monitor.
Did you use the same cable(s)?
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by yerzmyey »

joska:

>I've never heard of it either, but I don't think it's impossible. The RGB-lines are mixed in the RF modulator. If something's
>wrong with the modulator you could get results like this.
--------------------------
So. The modulator it is.
I also suspected this. If anybody would find some time and point me on the Net any picture with a place of the modulator, I would be deeply grateful.



> Did you use the same cable(s)?
-----------------
They could be different cables, I allow such a possibility. However it still doesn't explain the same "grey-scale" effect via antenna connector.

OK then, I go to find some pictures of STe mainboard and the modulator on it.
I wonder it it's difficult to remove it.
And also - if it's possible to use the STfm modulator instead... Hmmm...
We will see.
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by yerzmyey »

OK then. That's the STe mainboard:

Image

Which one the modulator would be?
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by joska »

yerzmyey wrote: So. The modulator it is.
I also suspected this. If anybody would find some time and point me on the Net any picture with a place of the modulator, I would be deeply grateful.
It could also be in the supporting circuits for the modulator. I can't recall how the modulator in the STE looks like, but if it's easy to remove it you can try that first. You might loose the composite video output in the monitor socket - I don't know if the composite signal is mixed in the modulator or not.
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by wongck »

yerzmyey wrote:I tested it on regular antenna connector to TV-set - greyscale.
I tested the monitor output (with RGB monitor and with another TV-set with chinch video input) - the same. Greyscale.
yerzmyey wrote:http://8bitcollective.com/music/Guest/428/ ), the machine worked fine - with colours - plugged into a TV-set via monitor port (RGB).
We were very surprised. I took it back home and checked out last times - still grey-scale. On every possible TV/monitor.
Huh? can't be.
Could it be you have a Never Twice Same Colour system ? :lol:
Seriously, only thing I can think of is that may be Atari TV modulator is PAL or NTSC and not your TV set.
However, your friend's TV set is the correct system (or can auto detect and change?)
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by yerzmyey »

Or maybe some electronic part isn't soldered well-enough. Hm.
Well, thanks anyway guyz. :)
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by insanity »

wongck wrote:Huh? can't be.
Could it be you have a Never Twice Same Colour system ? :lol:
Seriously, only thing I can think of is that may be Atari TV modulator is PAL or NTSC and not your TV set.
However, your friend's TV set is the correct system (or can auto detect and change?)
Actually, this sounds correct... we are PAL here in the UK and my video used to be able to playback NTSC
videos, but they were in black and white on my old TV! Have you tried any disks that have a PAL/NTSC switch option. Such as most Pompey Pirate menus?

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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by joska »

insanity wrote:Actually, this sounds correct... we are PAL here in the UK and my video used to be able to playback NTSC
videos, but they were in black and white on my old TV! Have you tried any disks that have a PAL/NTSC switch option. Such as most Pompey Pirate menus?
There is more to NTSC vs PAL than just 60/50Hz (which is the only thing you can select in software). The modulator is different, and the composite signal is encoded differently.
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by joska »

yerzmyey wrote:OK then. That's the STe mainboard:

Image

Which one the modulator would be?
The metal box with the RF socket. The part number says it's a PAL modulator.
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by yerzmyey »

joska wrote:
yerzmyey wrote:OK then. That's the STe mainboard:
Image
Which one the modulator would be?
The metal box with the RF socket. The part number says it's a PAL modulator.

OK then. Thanx for the info.
At the moment I try to learn my little niece for many days what is Atari STfm 520 is (she's about 13 years old. And I mean the niece :) ), and I do it with "Goblins" series.
However soon I will check out the idea and try to change the modulator. We will see. Of course I will not kill my 520 STfm but the one with spare parts.
Will let You know.
Thanx!
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by wongck »

yerzmyey wrote:However soon I will check out the idea and try to change the modulator. We will see. Of course I will not kill my 520 STfm but the one with spare parts.
Why not just check with your friend if his TV is auto switch PAl/NTSC mode?
Or google the information of the TV set.
It's sure easier than to change the modulator.
(may be less fun for someone who like thinkering with soldering iron... :wink: )
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by Zamuel_a »

Have you tested to take the composite output to the TV instead of the RF signal? If your TV isn't to old it should be able to switch between PAL and NTSC. Maybe you have to go into a menu on the TV and set it to PAL or NTSC. I had a similar problem some days ago then I tested my Falcon on a TV with the RF port for the first time (only used VGA before) and I could't get a stable picture. It was flickering between color and black and white and then I checked in one of the menus on my TV (it's an old CRT TV, about 8 years old) I saw that it was PAL/NTSC autoselect and that didn't work. Then I set it to PAL manually it worked fine.
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by DrCoolZic »

I guess that by now you have located the spot of the RF modulator. It is of course the cuircuit connected to the output port :)
FYI locations on ST, old STE and latest STE
rf-spot.jpg
rf-spot.jpg
rf-spot.jpg
Tests:
Try output from DIN13 video connector to TV using SCART
If this work try to connect to TV with RF and as already mentionned, try to switch PAL/NTSC. This should happan automatically but on Very old you may have to enter TV setup.

Of course as you cab see STf modulator is NOT compatible with STe (anyway it wont fit!)
Good luck
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by yerzmyey »

Many thanx guys, for Your time.

Yes, I checked out the systems. I connected the STe (via monitor port) into my the newest LCD TV-set with many systems.
I connected it into chinch (no antenna).
I tested all the systems, including NTSC. Still nothing. Greyscale only every time.

>Of course as you cab see STf modulator is NOT compatible with STe (anyway it wont fit!)
---------------
Ah, I see. That's what I was afraid of.

Still I agree we should check out the machine again with Pinokio's TV-set. What will be done in some time.
http://ym-digital.i-demo.pl/ ATARI 520ST music-band
http://ay-riders.speccy.cz/ ZX Spectrum music-band
http://yerzmyey.i-demo.pl/ ZX/A500/A1200/ST/XL music
https://soundcloud.com/yerzmyey ZX/A500/A1200/ST/STE/F030 music
http://z80.i-demo.pl/ MP3 archive of Z80 chip music
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Re: ATARI STe without COLOURS!?!?

Post by insanity »

DrCoolZic wrote: FYI locations on ST, old STE and latest STE
Sorry to hi-jack this thread... but any chance of some full motherboard pics for the wiki DrCoolZic? :)

Thanks

baz
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