Another failed ST -> vga experiment for me :)

[DarkLord]

Well, I'm still trying... icon_smile.gif

I bought this unit from a store on Ebay and tried it. Says it requires 5v input to power it - my universal P/S from Walmart
only does 4.5 and 6, I tried both. I tried adjusting the pots, and using the menu switch, the auto scan switch, etc, and I
got no output from the Mega ST I was using at all - the 15" AOC monitor I was using flashes green on its LED's when
there is a legitimate signal - never got one. So, I don't know - unless someone has some other suggestions as to what
to try with it. Perhaps the CGA input signal its looking for is too far from the ST's standard signal.

b185562287.jpg

This same setup, (Mega ST and AOC monitor) works ok in ST Low (but not Med - blurry and text drops out) with this
Ambery rgb to vga converter:

AV1-Product.gif

Just thought I'd pass along what some of my experiences are...

[techie_alison]

Do you have a link to that new one?

I'm quite interested in that.

[DarkLord]

Do you have a link to that new one?

I'm quite interested in that.

Sure thing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Arcade-RGBS-CGA-EGA ... 286.c0.m14


Its an Ebay seller. Hope this helps.

[simbo]

did you get a manual for it
i asked for one by email
looks handy for a project i have also
i had some spare paypal funds so i got one on its way
looks exactly what i need

cheers..

[simbo]

i have the manual already fast service for sure
and one on the way...
so what i notice straight off is the psu required needs to be 2amp output at 5v +-.5v
as the unit requires 2amps...?? not sure your walmart has the needed drive
if this is wrong the unit will appear not to work

a test is to connect the unit to power
and plug in the monitor it should turn on then start blinking again
this shows its been detected by the vga video circuits
and set to standby
then turn on the signal from the mega and it will work

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0323709101

something like this is fine

the manual is 3 pages two are pictures and the file weighs 2MB !!!
SPECIFICATIONS
Power DC5V 2A +/- 0.5v P7 or P9
Input signal

CGA/EGA 14.5-16.5K 23.5-25.5K 30.5-32.5K
Auto scan P3 or P11 or P10
RGBHV 30.5-32.5K Auto scan P10 or P11
VGA 30.5-32.5K Auto scan P10 or P11
Ypbpr 480p,576p,720p,1080p Auto scan P2
Ycbcr 480i,576i,720i,1080i Auto scan P2
Output signal VGA 640*480,800*600
1024*768,1360*768 P4 and P13
User control Input Switch, Image Zoom, Image Position,
Output Resolution ,R\G\B gain adjust. Menu Key
R\G\B VR
Dimensions 115*105*20mm
MENU CONTROL
- “MENU” open OSD menu, and enter.
- “UP” up and increase.
- “DOWN/AUTO” down and reduce.
Press this key auto scan CGA/EGA signal
Press this key over 5 second and release reset system
** (this operation is invalid when you open OSD menu)
- “SW” switch input signal Ypbpr/RGBS/RGBHV.
** (this operation is invalid when you open OSD menu)
- “Clamp sp” & “Clamp” please don’t adjust this button , excepting the monitor have black item, or picture discoloration.
- More functions control please look to OSD to operation.
FAQ
No signal on you monitor
-please check input and output cable, make sure all cable it’s connected. And make sure power it’s on. Display on you monitor it’s “No signal” please press “SW” to switch input signal.
Input not supports
-when you monitor display “input not supports” maybe you need change to low resolution .
Please press “DOWN/AUTO” over 5 second and release. system reset to 800*600 output.
Image not full on you screen
-please enter menu adjust image position and zoom.
Image shake or freeze
-please press “DOWN/AUTO”, system auto scan input signal and restore image.
Have black item on screen, or all screen it’s too black, or picture discoloration.
-please adjust “Clamp sp” and “Clamp st”, please keep “Clamp st” less than “Clamp sp”.
-advice “Clamp st” SET “03” , “Clamp sp” SET “04”.
Image color not right
-please adjust R\G\B VR.


so here are the main specs

[techie_alison]

I'm half tempted to get one of these too, while the pound is strong.

$56 = £32

[simbo]

go alison you know you want to

ahh go on

just one go on you can do it hehe

i want it just becouse it has two vga switched points
and i want to fit it inside an ste
on the other hand it had no box so nothing to throw away
and i can make something up for menu adjustment
plan is ste with atonce...386 and 68000+68882 fpu
remove floppy add ultrasatan inside ste replacing floppy
use floppy via external port
add network and flash tos .. updated via network
i see a nice network card from alanh
i can extend with one ic im sure .. and write a boot block for 8MB o/s eeprom flash updates and loading
ill add this video board to the ste
using some of its sockets and a quick drill and file job
maybe use a different psu so i can switch it on when the ste is off and run something thru it
then once its fully updated ill sell it im sure for a holiday and crimbo

[simbo]

big tip for ebay users in uk when shopping in the u/s
dont spend more than £36 {50$} on any one item
or our friendly goverment and more over the post office charges a customs fee

the post office a flat rate cheeky £8 concidering they have already been payed
the V.A.T @ %8 so for a $75 item's it will cost you
50odd quid +15 quid

so you save nothing shopping in the state

prewarned it forwarned....

one item declared without postage added
as very often it cost say $16 post or so and this pushes things up
past the limit on gift or comercial import from the states to the uk anyway

and this is why brian koda at best electronics fell out with me
becouse he added the cost of postage into the mix
pushing up the price just past the £ import limit on a gift or commercial stuff
and when i told him he had filled out his! decliration wrongly
he spat the dummy and refused to deal with me further...typical..!

[Anemos]

so.. the Arcade RGBS CGA/EGA/YUV TO 2 VGA CONVERTER ,is the GBS-8220 model converter,this converter build for Jamma and MVS board for exactly ..
Jamma and similar boards has a deferents compo signal = all that boards haves COMPOSITE SYNC ,and NOT Composite video like AtariST !
another think is different RGB voltage is lowest to Atari/Amiga from Jamma boards,perhaps there is the problem + the composite sync.
One solution maybe is the LM1881 IC is the signal separator, to convert the Vertical signal and the normal composite to >COMPOSITE SYNC
here is the diagram.
good luck

here is LM1881 info: http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datashe ... 009150.PDF

[DarkLord]

Hmm, don't know about the WallyWorld power supply - lemme see if I can figure out
what it is... I'll just type in everything on it:

PowerLine
600ma Universal Adapter
Power Supply
Model 0900-74
Input 100-120VAC
50/60Hz 0.3A max
Vout DC: 3, 4.5, 6, 7.5, 9, 12
Current: 600mA
Efficiency level IV

I've been using this with the SatanDisk - has worked fine there. I didn't have to try
to figure out + and - on the SatanDisk, it has a rectifier. I'm not sure about this unit,
I couldn't find anything about polarity at all on it, and I didn't have the manual.

With just the unit attached to my 15" AOC VGA monitor, I don't get anything on
screen. Its just black. The OSD stuff/menu never comes up. I tried using the controls,
but with the listing from the manual you posted, I'll try again when I get a chance.

Thanks for posting that.

[simbo]

darklord :
this psu is too small a current output and will collapse as soon as you plug it in
hence a dead unit appearance...
most psu's have a thing called foldback overcurrent protection
as soon as it detects your draging more than its max output +usualy a percentage from it
it will foldback to zero output

the psu you choose needs to be more than 2amps output @ 5v
i would use a 3amp to give a little stack
like the link i posted {$9.99 +post } and its in the states
im sure if you root around the local emporium youll find one
5V @ 3amps or more
remember when choosing psu's for computers
make sure they are 100% duty cycle

if you need 2 amps all the time personaly i would use a 5amp supply !!
to avoid thermal stress and also this will increase the amount of time you can leave it on
duty cycle is dependant on how much you use how long in use and cicruit constraints
and is very important !!
or the psu will blow up quick
also .3amp isnt so good for the satandisk
im sure it uses over 200ma i remember jookie doing some tests
if i remember this can affect some cards bigger than 1GB
as they drag off more current...
again thermal stress is a killer mostly just the psu dies
occasionaly goes on fire
and most often fails in someway like its caps dry out becouse its too hot...
then it blows up from poor switching circuit timing coherance....
most..ALL of them should have a fuse will blow on the primary
{part of double insulation rules this small glass or smd fuse}
and very often this gets warm for a few weeks becomes week and dies
{i tired fuse} becouse its right on the upper edge of its nominal operating region

its nice to point out that the psu in ataris machines and periferals is only a 50% duty cycle

Anemos:
as for using an ic to dirive mixed sync ??why there is already a mixed sync signal avalible in st machines
it arrives at pin2 on the mc1377p
a quick mod is to reuse a pin on the video socket
however
what i beleve is the best approch
is to add some sockets to the atari
like mixed sync , hsync,vsync, rgb
using another connector maybe something like a 7pin din but 5 pin dins can be plugged in
or 9pin D chassis male this avoids plugging other stuff to it
R G B G VS HS MS ...7 pins

however to make mixed sync without taking apart the composite carrier or the atari
is to use two 75R resistors

hsync.....75R|........ mixed sync
vsync.....75R|

or use a 74ls86 like the atari does,
you can mount this on the new video board on a riser

therefore its better to get the signals
as its easy on the stfm its in the large metal can
and just one solder point on ste...

i cant wait to get a play around with this new unit !!!!
but its kindof daft that it doesnt like vsync hsync as seperate signals

[Anemos]

@simbo,im not so sure but thing that board love the separate signal..
can be use 5v from PC PSU for testing?
there has 10A is that problem?

[simbo]

yes

in the ste is another mod you can do
to not have to add other sockets
simply cut R439
this will deliver mixed sync compsite polarity
to the video socket pin 2 composite out
as does the mega anyway out pin2 comes just sync...
you can reuse this for mixed sync rgb input
maybe solder a small single pole switch in
from what i see it allows for mixed or h /v sync rgb anyway
i guessed ages aok its the psu the guys using thats the only problem

[atarian90]

Darklord,

It looks like we are both on the same quest.

It looks like I have the same board, but it's from a different vendor. My guess is that there is a OEM manufacturer who builds them and then licenses it out. My board is red instead of green, but otherwise, looks exactly the same. The specs and manual look exactly the same too.

Unfortunately, my results are not good. This is what I got.

IMG_8000.JPG

IMG_7996.JPG

IMG_7997.JPG

IMG_8001.JPG

The funny thing is that the board detects a combined sync coming out of the ST. It displays a pattern of solid colors and other garbage. Once in a while, you can see the desktop, but it too is skewed and full of garbage as seen in the picture directly above.

I next switch the input to separate sync output (which is what the ST normally outputs), and here, the picture is either all red or green and keeps rolling top to bottom. In addition, the screen is not stable as you can see in the middle two pictures above.

I've checked my soldering and pin connections to make sure I didn't make a mistake, but it looks good to me. I actually made two cables - one connected to the white internal header, and the other to the D-Sub 15 pin input port. Both yielded the same result.

I don't know what else to do.

[BoNuS]

Looks like an intressting piece of hardware
Esp. at that price, is in euro's now 22 euro, that's cheap !

But Can I use the standard VGA connector and a standard vga cable to connect to
this piece of hardware and the another to my monitor or do I have to solder one
cable myself ?
I have a multisync here (CRT tube) and 2 LCD's so want to connect one of the
to it.
An ofcourse my Mega STE would also be nice, I have to solder for that one I'm sure.

[simbo]

if you notice it wont support 15.75khz so its no use for atari st machines
or mega ste or mega st without graphics addons
..............................ST High.......ST Low/Medium
Vertical refresh rate.....72 Hz........50 or 60 Hz
Horizontal refresh rate..31.5 Khz.....15.75 Khz

it only supports certain hsync
CGA/EGA 14.5-16.5K 23.5-25.5K 30.5-32.5K.. problem not relevent mode to ataris
RGBHV 30.5-32.5K... problem ... no support for 15khz
VGA 30.5-32.5K
Ypbpr 480p,576p,720p,1080p
Ycbcr 480i,576i,720i,1080i

however i simply doubled the hsync pulses and got a resonable picture

and a good frame lock

it pisses me off that each time i turn it on the menus are again in chinese etc..
seems to have no nvram for settings

still i got this one for using with an old cga machine i have that i want to display on a projector

[DarkLord]

14.5-16.5K doesn't denote a range that it supports?

That's the only reason I bought it - was because it looked
like the ST's 15.75 output did fall in the 14.5-16.5k range.



PS and yep, Atarian90 - I've been trying for a long time to find something that will
let me send my STacy's video to an LCD, so I can attempt to replace the stock
mono unit, all of it internally, still keeping my STacy portable.

[simbo]

ok more info on this

i found that i got a great frame lock using the pin2 and cut resistor to supply sync
however it appears the rgb level is too low to drive any picture up

i know the frame is locked becouse my 'no signal' indication is gone
and my monitor is locked and black
i wired R,G,B mixed sync from pin2 {composite carrier removed}
and ground to the RGBS input this is supposed to be .7vp-p as standards say
indeed its the very same as rgb atari standards
this makes me feel that the video level is insufficient to drive the cards inputs
as i have frame lock and no picture

there are a few solutions to this
least of which is to use a level converter or other package to deal with this
i know that the rgbs input doesnt like a TTL sync i tried it in both polarities
it prefers the composite level

if i changed input to rgbs there was again 'no signal'
but if you press and hold auto scan for 7 seconds then release it finds the frame and locks to it

all very strange but i wont rules this card out yet
a few simple mods etc may just fix the issues

[Poobah]

I've been working on an S-Video adapter for the ST for quite a while now.
The problem is definitely the sync signals.
They are very non-standard.
You can't use the internal ST clock because its wrong, and if you use an external clock, you get jitter on the output side depending on how much the conversion IC oversamples the input clock (typically 8x). End result is that the pixels 'dance', assuming your output device can lock on to the signal.

[simbo]

14.5-16.5K doesn't denote a range that it supports?

That's the only reason I bought it - was because it looked
like the ST's 15.75 output did fall in the 14.5-16.5k range.



PS and yep, Atarian90 - I've been trying for a long time to find something that will
let me send my STacy's video to an LCD, so I can attempt to replace the stock
mono unit, all of it internally, still keeping my STacy portable.

darklord
you can use just an AD724 or 725 to give component svideo
plenty of very small 'mini' lcd's used in cars/planes/trains etc...
reuse this svideo input {4 or 8pin din}
im sure i told you this already

all you need to give the chip is a 4mhz resonator
hsync vsync r,g,b it will give chroma luma and composite out
to connect to the lcd
{strip it out its case if needed}
try ebay and type in 10" lcd svideo input see what comes back
let me know if you cant find this

[simbo]

a good tip
is to look around for a 'portable mini dvd player' that accepts svideo input {any form } or rgb and sync
there are millions of these now
you will find them from 5" to 14" sizes that do this

then rip it to bits and use also the above ic mounted on a small board

if you would like me to provide you with a pcb design for the ad725 i will do this
as its really an easy ic to use
im sure the whole board will be less than 1" by 1"

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=portab ... &_osacat=0

forinstance here is a 0.99$ one cost will be about a 10er to ship it
it accepts svideo input

these units just dont read a disk
http://cgi.ebay.com/AS-IS-Toshiba-SD-P9 ... 286.c0.m14


when looking around try to find one with the cd mounted to the rear of the screen
and inputs down the side
it makes hacking these easier for your needs for the stacy i feel


personaly and im a bit of a geek
i would plump for something like this

just to top off the cake
if you intend to travel it makes sense to think ahead
its not much bigger or smaller and doesnt need hacked
some surprising features like usb streaming of dvd etc avi from a pc or a-v or bluetooth
or just have a read and a little think youll see what i mean
would make a stacy a whole lot better
making a usb to mouse adapter is also easy im sure {maybe adding the touch screen output im sure it will be ported somehow these things are usualy easy to find out}

there is so much more you can do for the money with this one like make phone calls from your stacy
or play media on the pc from the stacy and display both just flick back to the stacy when your media is playing {music etc}
stream out the stacy to usb/bluetooth {it will do this for adding a bigger rear view or lcd }

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hot-7-inch-GPS-Re ... 286.c0.m14
about £110 inc post {no vat or customs im sure with this one} lol:) its got a 400mhz mcu !!!!
anything bigger than 7" i feel will be too big to be suitable to be pnp and able to be removed easily from the stacy
for use in the car
the stacy is 9" wide so 10 is no good and 9 doesnt exist that i could find
that easily convert {have a-v in quite a recent thing}
this one is Dimension: 212mm (L)* 117mmW* 25MMH
forinstance the only 8" types i could find are
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Simrad-NavStation ... 286.c0.m14
mega bucks to buy and have !!!less features mainly used on boats {hence the price hike}
im sure youll agree that given the added clarity of colour
even at 7" the unit will scale the video nicely and becouse it's quite a good type of tft low latency lcd
it will be a smooth picture flow and also accept non interlaced composite a-v
so this is the best choice im sure you can make

[DarkLord]

You're probably right Simbo. Sorry.

Well, I have trouble figuring out what LCDs would work and which ones won't.

How about posting a link to a model that, with your expertise, you know would
work. (and hopefully won't cost $500-1000).

I'm not sure about the AD724/725?

Could you just make the necessary cable? I'd be glad to pay for it.

Thanks!

[simbo]

just buy that little 7" satnav
im sure i already mounted an ad725 to a board
ill check through my archive and find the designs again

if not ill redraw it as its a 2hr job max....

making a rgb to svideo is simple rest it just a few solders to the video section of the stacy
{this way you can also use the external connector at the same time!! if your stacy is plugged into another monitor}
R,G,B ,Hsync,Vsync ,gnd , vcc {5v-dc}

then the needs are just composite video to av socket {i think it will use a 3.5mm plug maybe a stereo one}
if you look at the picture youll see the leads with it for this svideo in...
so can be adjusted to suite .. or maybe make another with a right angle plug fitted {so it fits easily in the top case}
you can add a bit of velcro of something to hold it tight in place....


it works out less the $200 for a nice addin ...
http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/28/how- ... cade-game/
here is a design i dug out
to make the pcb is easy
first get the chip and a bit of board
now print a negative image of this design pcb the guy has made already
{no point to reinvert the wheel}
once this is printed size the chip pins to the laser print
to make sure its the right size... and the chip fits exactly {scalled correctly}
now laser print this again this time to press and peal transfer paper
{i line it up perfect and first carefully with a small amount of prit stick glue
glue a small square of the transfer paper to the the a4
as its expensive you dont waist a whole sheet

clean your cut and prepaired bit of blank pcb
using an iron line up your cut out square leaving the backing sheet there
and iron on the tranfer at cotton 2 setting no steam

wait 5 mins and pull it off
now you touch up if needed with a fine black permo pen
and can etch it in ferric cloride or press and peal etchant

then its easy then to drill and populate
there are lots of them you can buy
but yours needs to be as small as possible to fit
alternatly the guy here gives details to use just some vero strip board {hobby board}
as this is easier and maybe if you carefully do it just as small and well made...

dont forget you need a 14.XXXmhz crystal for ntsc {get one from an old tv!! }
as your stacy will be 60hz standard...

http://sci.tech-archive.net/pdf/Archive ... g03962.pdf
some q&a about this ic

http://www.analog.com/static/imported-f ... /AD725.pdf

its datasheet is far more helpfull if you read it slowly

its a pitty more people dont want such a board i would run off 10 -20 see how it goes...
i would add an amp and passthru and an luma trap circuit and switchable pal/ntsc maybe somepeople
would like such a small board????
cant see the cost being more than £20 built and tested all smd
measures maybe 2.5cm by 2.75 cm or something

[simbo]

http://cgi.ebay.de/AD725AR-AD725-725AR- ... .m63.l1177

can get 50 of here



or in the uk here
Company Name: Speedfree Technology Group Ltd
Address:
24-28 St. Leonards Rd,
Windsor
SL4 3BB
Business Registration Address:
24-28 ST. LEONARDS RD,
WINDSOR
SL4 3BB
Country: UK
Tel: +44 0870 4864298
Fax: +44 0870 4864258
as 10 for £25 inc vat or so..{i know which i would buy first !!!!}


but will people want them ?? dont know??

[DarkLord]

I would for that price!