Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by sety »

ragnar76 wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:04 am It's a Rigol DS1054Z
Oh! A DSO. That makes things a bit easier. Just connect the probe to CH1 and select CH1 button so that it's the only one that's green. Find the clock signal, it's somewhere here on the solder side of your Falcon's expansion port on the AB...
Atari-AB.jpg
There should be a button auto or auto-set or something. With the probe attached, press that. It'll take a couple of seconds but it will set your scope range to be able to see whatever your Falcon clock is doing, which will also be a good range to observe activity on your data/address lines. Let us know how you go!

Lovely clean bench btw! Way better than mine! :lol:
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by mpattonm »

ragnar76 wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:47 pm You mean the image above? It's an image from sety, my U64 (the Blitter) is populated
Ah OK, sorry. Either way, U64 is the NVRAM chip (not Blitter). Reset/replace it before you do any more debugging. Next, test cartridge would help you.
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by ragnar76 »

sety wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:29 am Oh! A DSO. That makes things a bit easier. Just connect the probe to CH1 and select CH1 button so that it's the only one that's green. Find the clock signal, it's somewhere here on the solder side of your Falcon's expansion port on the AB...
Only one probe? No GND or such?

sety wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:29 am There should be a button auto or auto-set or something. With the probe attached, press that. It'll take a couple of seconds but it will set your scope range to be able to see whatever your Falcon clock is doing, which will also be a good range to observe activity on your data/address lines. Let us know how you go!
There are a few tutorial videos on YouTube. I will watch them and find out

sety wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:29 am Lovely clean bench btw! Way better than mine! :lol:
Just for the photo. You haven't seen the rest :lol:
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by ragnar76 »

mpattonm wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:30 am Ah OK, sorry. Either way, U64 is the NVRAM chip (not Blitter). Reset/replace it before you do any more debugging. Next, test cartridge would help you.
Yes, of course, the nvram. Noone knows why I have written "blitter" :roll:
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by ragnar76 »

Rustynutt wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:28 am You'll be ready for one of these in the future too :)
what is it? how much does it cost? where can i get it? i'll take one!
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by sety »

LA's are for computer engineers. :)

The humble scope is the way to go for repair...

me.jpg
Most of the time it's just corroded tracks, just gotta find them! :D
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by joska »

Rustynutt wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:28 am You'll be ready for one of these in the future too :)
What is this? A 030 and some SRAM?
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by Rustynutt »

Yes, the designer posted the description on the FB Atari Falcon group. Think there is a link to Github where he's posted some of the work involved.
Last I read, was looking into why only half the SD RAM can be seen. Also seems like he's ran into the DSP access problems a couple of the earlier cards made for the Falcon had. Forget the solution. The Eagle Sonic was one. Have the other here, forget what it's called.
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by joska »

Interesting. How fast is it? 50MHz like the typical A1200 030-accelerator? How much RAM, and how fast?

Btw. the prototype is missing an FPU and a through-socket for the expansion port. With these in place (and enough fast-RAM) it could be a good alternative to the Afterburner.
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by dhedberg »

The DSP issues are resolved as far as I know. I think he assumed the DSP host port to be 16-bit while it actually is 8-bit.
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by Rustynutt »

I'd mentioned adding another DSP (and or FPU) onto this card, remapping addresses. He was concerned about space. Pointed out with something like the Centuriontech P/S for the original CT60, included is a connector to power the Falcon motherboard, and eliminate the floppy power connection to the early CT60 design.
I'm out of Falcons to modify, can surely see this a benefit to those wanting a clean solution to performance and yet have the keyboard fit properly :)
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by Rustynutt »

Yes, you are correct Daniel :)
Sure looks like a decent alternative to those wanting a drop in upgrade.
Let's see, add in the AT&T IC and copy the old ScreenEye video capture H/W onboard, Falcon Speed... :) Bet his feature request list is pages long by now.
Quality work too. Don't want to agitate someone with those abilities :)
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by sety »

Rustynutt wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:28 am You'll be ready for one of these in the future too :)
I'm a bit red faced right now, Micheal. :) I thought you were talking about the tools in the photo, I didn't even stop to consider the that board. :oops:

Did I read correctly somewhere that he's going to make all the source files public once he settles on a stable design? This is very exciting!

Found the GitHub link: https://github.com/dh219/DFB/wiki

Following with interest :)
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by Rustynutt »

It's seems to happen to every thread I post too, I get off topic and stuff too easily.
Kind of need a break from the CT stuff, should pull out the Falcon the Afterburner is going into and work in concert.
But I'm NOT removing the CPU! :)
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by ragnar76 »

Rustynutt wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:10 amBut I'm NOT removing the CPU! :)
Why not? 8)

To be fair, i havnt found any time yet to continue on my falcon. Work, wife and child are taking a lot of time atm
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by Rustynutt »

While rooting around the "Atari" folder on the PC, ran across a message from Doug. He was checking out the board, realized many of the components shared a common ground trace (same resistor/capacitor) and make a few changes to his board (this was years ago). He managed (with Nemesis) to bump his machine to 48mHz. Managed 44mHz on my setup, with SCSI issues. Was stable at 42mHz.
I'll post his mail next time I look out the window :)
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by Rustynutt »

mpattonm wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:30 am
ragnar76 wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:47 pm You mean the image above? It's an image from sety, my U64 (the Blitter) is populated
Ah OK, sorry. Either way, U64 is the NVRAM chip (not Blitter). Reset/replace it before you do any more debugging. Next, test cartridge would help you.
Found booting EmuTOS from ROM, the NVRAM isn't necessary to be present :)
So, it's a TOS 4.04 thing.
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by Rustynutt »

ragnar76 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:51 pm
Rustynutt wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:10 amBut I'm NOT removing the CPU! :)
Why not? 8)

To be fair, i havnt found any time yet to continue on my falcon. Work, wife and child are taking a lot of time atm
I'm now "considering" this.
That thing gets HOT with a 28MHz bus.
Think in another thread someone mentioned just removing power for it, and another member chimed in with something like the address pins would still be cycling.
Over my head.
With power disconnected, and bus grant pulled as with the AB installation, is that as effective physically removing it?
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by mpattonm »

Rustynutt wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:12 pm
ragnar76 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:51 pm
Rustynutt wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:10 amBut I'm NOT removing the CPU! :)
Why not? 8)

To be fair, i havnt found any time yet to continue on my falcon. Work, wife and child are taking a lot of time atm
I'm now "considering" this.
That thing gets HOT with a 28MHz bus.
Think in another thread someone mentioned just removing power for it, and another member chimed in with something like the address pins would still be cycling.
Over my head.
With power disconnected, and bus grant pulled as with the AB installation, is that as effective physically removing it?
Are you referring to onboard CPU? It has several Vcc pins, not just one. It would probably be easier to disconnect clock source.
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by Rustynutt »

Thanks!
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by Rustynutt »

mpattonm wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:30 pm
Rustynutt wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:12 pm
ragnar76 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:51 pm
Why not? 8)

To be fair, i havnt found any time yet to continue on my falcon. Work, wife and child are taking a lot of time atm
I'm now "considering" this.
That thing gets HOT with a 28MHz bus.
Think in another thread someone mentioned just removing power for it, and another member chimed in with something like the address pins would still be cycling.
Over my head.
With power disconnected, and bus grant pulled as with the AB installation, is that as effective physically removing it?
Are you referring to onboard CPU? It has several Vcc pins, not just one. It would probably be easier to disconnect clock source.

Little off topic.
My Falcon is actually reasonable stable running the COMBEL at 60MHz.
Not even warm.
On your board are you buffering the proprietary IC's address bus at all?
Eventually it glitches with the bus at 30MHz. Haven't pinpointed where it's crashing at.
Just between 56 MHz and 60MHz COMBEL is where it's erroring.
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by Rustynutt »

mpattonm wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:30 pm
Rustynutt wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:12 pm
ragnar76 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:51 pm
Why not? 8)

To be fair, i havnt found any time yet to continue on my falcon. Work, wife and child are taking a lot of time atm
I'm now "considering" this.
That thing gets HOT with a 28MHz bus.
Think in another thread someone mentioned just removing power for it, and another member chimed in with something like the address pins would still be cycling.
Over my head.
With power disconnected, and bus grant pulled as with the AB installation, is that as effective physically removing it?
Are you referring to onboard CPU? It has several Vcc pins, not just one. It would probably be easier to disconnect clock source.
Tried this with the Afterburner installed, it wouldn't boot...... otherwise setup is working well. Did put a manual switch on the CPU lines to go back to 030, if necessary.

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Found time to work with your AB?
Tested about all versions of clock patches, you are pretty much sol with the Afterburner. Using the Centuriontech patch, it's a nice design that plugs into a GAL socket, low enough to clear the AB. Makes a good unit for clock buffering.
I'm using Falcon Tool CPX and switch to "8MHz" CPU and disable data cache when using the SCSI, works perfect.
If you patch the 500KHz keyboard clock, the main oscillator can be socketed and run the AB to 40MHz works well.
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by ragnar76 »

No i haven't. My wife if pregnant and we have moved to another city 'cause we need a bigger place.
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by Rustynutt »

ragnar76 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:26 am No i haven't. My wife if pregnant and we have moved to another city 'cause we need a bigger place.
That was 39 years ago for me :)
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Re: Falcon without CPU but with Afterburner?

Post by Rustynutt »

For archival purposes.
Last night retested a setup I'd tried about 10 years ago.
Had read the Mac 68040 "Quad Doubler", a 50MHz 040 CPU board that plugs direct into the 040 socket works on certain Amiga 040 boards.

Rechecked what I'd done before, and forgot to allow for the Falcon to output about a 12MHz clock to the expansion bus as the Quad Doubler expects a 25MHz BCLK.

So with the Falcon keeping the 8MHz COMBEL setting at boot, and a 46MHz main clock, it booted right up with a clocked 46MHz 040.

Of course, slower bus, and fast ram still not working past 16MHz bus, more a thrill of success once than any speed realized.

Do have a rare Mac DiiMO Cache 040/50 card with 128K cache.
The 040 is designed to utilize it, so it's not Mac specific there. It also allows for both 25 and 33 MHz BCLK.
This might be the speed demon I'm looking for.
Like most this stuff, broken pins needed repaired, and I'd robbed the 88915 many years ago in a rather dumb moment. Bit of soldering and will report back it this works as well.
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