Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

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marcello
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Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by marcello »

Hej Folks
I am preparing an update to my tiny st_mint distribution and I was wondering which AES I could use.
I have seen that Xaaes crashes on boot when you're not having NVDI installed (as noted in the Vanilla Mint install notes) and I don't have that.

So this leaves me the choice of:
- myAes
- AES 4.1 from latest Multitos ( from https://gtello.pagesperso-orange.fr/mint.htm)
- Geneva + Neo Desk

I have seen in the Geneva Page:
http://www4.pair.com/gribnif/downloads/geneva/
Can optionally use the MiNT multitasking kernel.

Are you using any of those on a 68000 ST ?

I am a unix passionate, so the end purpose is mostly having a Unix Shell in a gem window :)
STMint, try Unix on your 68000 Atari http://subsole.org/st_mint
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by Gaiyan »

I'd love to have Geneva as the AES. In fact, I had mixed results with my attempts with your quite excellent st_mint distro. I just haven't the time to crack at it more...
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by ThorstenOtto »

marcello wrote:Hej Folks
I have seen that Xaaes crashes on boot when you're not having NVDI installed
Did you actually try it? If thats true, then its definitely a bug in XaAES. Maybe just a matter of configuring the correct resolution, and/or fonts?
If that's really a bug and can be reproduced, you should open a ticket on the FreeMiNT site
- AES 4.1 from latest Multitos ( from https://gtello.pagesperso-orange.fr/mint.htm)
Argl. Thats not really an option.
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by christos »

ThorstenOtto wrote:
marcello wrote:
Argl. Thats not really an option.
Isn't it though? Anything else is far more memory hungry on a 4MB ST.
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by ThorstenOtto »

Yes, but it is also quite buggy, and missing a lot of functionality that modern applications would need.
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by joska »

ThorstenOtto wrote:If thats true, then its definitely a bug in XaAES.
It works, sort of, in mono. It also works with Nova-VDI and no NVDI. But it does not work in colour modes on plain ST/Falcon/TT VDI.
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by joska »

Gaiyan wrote:I'd love to have Geneva as the AES.
I have not been able to get Geneva to work properly with current MiNT kernels. IIRC MiNT 1.12 was the last version it worked properly with. Just waiting for Dan to release the sources, it would be a lot of fun to look into this.
marcello wrote:- AES 4.1 from latest Multitos
On a 4Mb ST this is the only realistic options. N.AES will also work well, but it can't be distributed.
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by marcello »

The issue with xaaaes crashing with the TOS Nvdi was discussed here in 2014 although things might have changed in five years :)
http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27040
I will check with a recent build if this isstilll crashes, and report on github.
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by OL »

marcello wrote:Hej Folks
I am preparing an update to my tiny st_mint distribution and I was wondering which AES I could use.
I have seen that Xaaes crashes on boot when you're not having NVDI installed (as noted in the Vanilla Mint install notes) and I don't have that.

So this leaves me the choice of:
- myAes
- AES 4.1 from latest Multitos ( from https://gtello.pagesperso-orange.fr/mint.htm)
- Geneva + Neo Desk

I have seen in the Geneva Page:
http://www4.pair.com/gribnif/downloads/geneva/
Can optionally use the MiNT multitasking kernel.

Are you using any of those on a 68000 ST ?

I am a unix passionate, so the end purpose is mostly having a Unix Shell in a gem window :)
Mint + AES + desktop in 4MB yes possible but will not stay too much memory

You can try extract configuration of MyAES from Hatari config, don't expect too much from this, but should work (not tested!)
http://myaes.lutece.net/telechargement/myhatari.zip
If need help on MyAES you can contact me.

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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by marcello »

Xaaes from the latest freemint build is still crashing with my STE ( but same config works with Hatari !)
I submitted a bug report here:
https://github.com/freemint/freemint/issues/127
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by marcello »

@Olivier Just tryed out myAES on my STE in ST high resolution and 4MB RAM, it is slow and starving for memory, but otherwise working correctly whitout noticeable crashes.
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by marcello »

Now I've pointed at a fourth AES to think about, oAESis !
Available here ( binaries)
https://forum.atari-home.de/index.php?a ... tach=14166
and source
https://github.com/ocgis/oaesis
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by jfl »

joska wrote:
marcello wrote:- AES 4.1 from latest Multitos
On a 4Mb ST this is the only realistic options. N.AES will also work well, but it can't be distributed.
I don't think N.AES runs on a 68000. I remember I couldn't use it on my MegaST.
AES 4.1 is OK, but somewhat slow.
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by Eero Tamminen »

Personally I would just use nice desktop replacement like Thing in 4MB, instead of multitasking AES...
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by OL »

marcello wrote:@Olivier Just tryed out myAES on my STE in ST high resolution and 4MB RAM, it is slow and starving for memory, but otherwise working correctly whitout noticeable crashes.
Good to know!

Ok I checked and yes menu display slowly compare to Emutos, I not compiled with a small speed up option I'm going to check if it help or not and if not try to do better, there is no reason slow down here except access directly to VDI for Emutos, I don't know if it can explain something, not think it is link to Mint when redraw system is in supervisor mode so multitask is frozen.

Thanks for report

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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by OL »

OL wrote:
marcello wrote:@Olivier Just tryed out myAES on my STE in ST high resolution and 4MB RAM, it is slow and starving for memory, but otherwise working correctly whitout noticeable crashes.
Good to know!

Ok I checked and yes menu display slowly compare to Emutos, I not compiled with a small speed up option I'm going to check if it help or not and if not try to do better, there is no reason slow down here except access directly to VDI for Emutos, I don't know if it can explain something, not think it is link to Mint when redraw system is in supervisor mode so multitask is frozen.

Thanks for report

Olivier
I think difference of speed is more link to emudesk vs Teradesk, if I launch Teradesk menu display speed is quite same as under MyAES, while emudesk menu looks display far faster, so should have some internal speed up, probably not possible if desktop is not include un system perhap ?! I'm able to display faster but not as fast as emudesk.
Now there is a bug in this version fileselector not display :-(
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by OL »

Hello

- file selector issue is fixed now, in previous version appl_getinfo report FSLX_selector support while it is not and Qed use fslx_xxx functions.
- A bit faster text redraw
- Now it is PureC 68000 version, it reduce size memory used.


Olivier
OL wrote:
OL wrote:
marcello wrote:@Olivier Just tryed out myAES on my STE in ST high resolution and 4MB RAM, it is slow and starving for memory, but otherwise working correctly whitout noticeable crashes.
Good to know!

Ok I checked and yes menu display slowly compare to Emutos, I not compiled with a small speed up option I'm going to check if it help or not and if not try to do better, there is no reason slow down here except access directly to VDI for Emutos, I don't know if it can explain something, not think it is link to Mint when redraw system is in supervisor mode so multitask is frozen.

Thanks for report

Olivier
I think difference of speed is more link to emudesk vs Teradesk, if I launch Teradesk menu display speed is quite same as under MyAES, while emudesk menu looks display far faster, so should have some internal speed up, probably not possible if desktop is not include un system perhap ?! I'm able to display faster but not as fast as emudesk.
Now there is a bug in this version fileselector not display :-(
OL
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by marcello »

So for the momment, I settled to use Xaaes which has some glitches, but work good enough for
me now. I could use sndplayer and play 2048 at the same time, multitasking FTW.
The graphic glitches are noticed are described in https://github.com/freemint/freemint/is ... -546721969.

If time allows, I'll also look at OAESIS and myAES.
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by paulwratt »

how is this going @marcello, I have been collecting Oliviers "MyHatari" 68000 build for a long time, to use on 4Mb STe, new (smaller) PureC build sounds good. Did you try oAESis yet? I found it years ago but not the .PRG and so not tested it yet.
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by paulwratt »

BTW if you can find (or build?) binary from before v0.90 you will get more functionality out of oAESis (according to its NEWS doc)
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by marcello »

hey paul, no I did not test oAesis (yet ) but you can have a look at it here
https://forum.atari-home.de/index.php?a ... tach=14166

(just need to remove the pdf file extension)

there is a prg inside the zip archive
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by paulwratt »

I had a look at the GitHub repo and the NEWS file (also in the zip) says that from 0.90 they changed a lot of things (0.91 is the current version), and that had reduced its (AES) functionality

They have a full commit history in the repo, so it should be possible to build a new version of 0.89 - I am not using Hatari yet so I can't test it, but I will be getting to it eventually, then I will test oAESis, including building an older version (just to see)

Remember to post here when you do get a chance to look at it, but it may not be pretty (who knows yet :)

Cheers

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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by Cyprian »

Is MiNT needed in case of oAesis ?
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by marcello »

STMint, try Unix on your 68000 Atari http://subsole.org/st_mint
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Post by ThorstenOtto »

@marcello: just noticed that you use mksh as default shell in your setup. Is the source for this available? And what patches did you use? (you mention some patch to run executables on FAT filesystem)
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