WARP9 vs NVDI - results

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WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by exxos »

These tests was done on a stock STFM 8mhz - no blitter - TOS1.04.
result.png
Results seem a bit of a mixed bag, but overall WRAP9 seems faster.

NVDI 8mhz & 16mhz (CPU & TOS)
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by calimero »

great idea to test both! I used Warp9 long time ago.

VDI Graphics is 2.5 times faster with NVDI but VDI scroll is 1/5 faster on Warp9...

What is subjective feeling (using GEM)? Is there any visible difference in speed?
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by exxos »

I've not done a lot of testing yet as my hard drive has going a bit wonky, but I think WARP9 seemed a lot faster in GEM on initial testing.
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by AdamK »

Can you retry in ST-HIGH?
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by exxos »

AdamK wrote:Can you retry in ST-HIGH?
Never used ST-HIGH. I sold my hi-res monitor years ago.
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by exxos »

Well this is odd.. NVDI works at 16mhz, but WARP9 seems to boot up OK, but does not give any speed boost in 16mhz mode. Warp 9 seems to have a screensaver as the screen goes black after a moment or so, moving mouse brings desktop back on. So must have loaded (says WARP 9 during boot up). But does nothing speed wise.. must be some bug in it somewhere ?!

Added 16mhz tests on NVDI on top post. 16mhz ROM doesn't really do anything, but no surprise really as NVDI replaces chunks of its functions. Still adds a fair % overall though.
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by DarkLord »

You know, come to think of it, I don't think I could ever get Warp 9 to work on my STacy.

I'll have to go back and verify that though. Could the software be clocked to a stock ST?
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by joska »

exxos wrote:Well this is odd.. NVDI works at 16mhz, but WARP9 seems to boot up OK, but does not give any speed boost in 16mhz mode.
Yes, this is why Warp 9 is slower than even plain TOS - you spend too much time wondering what the f**k went wrong this time ;)

Warp 9 is unstable and cause all sorts of weird problems. NVDI OTOH just works.
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by calimero »

is there any third application for boosting speed (replacing TOS functions)?
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by exxos »

joska wrote:
exxos wrote:Well this is odd.. NVDI works at 16mhz, but WARP9 seems to boot up OK, but does not give any speed boost in 16mhz mode.
Yes, this is why Warp 9 is slower than even plain TOS - you spend too much time wondering what the f**k went wrong this time ;)

Warp 9 is unstable and cause all sorts of weird problems. NVDI OTOH just works.
Warp 9 works great on a stock 8mhz machine, I dare say it feels faster in GEM. Though on my V2 booster, even in 8mhz mode, Warp 9 seems to load, but not do actually do anything. I also noticed it did not like my screen capture program either, it came up with 2 bombs just before desktop, so had to rename it from the auto folder to get Warp9 working at all, well loaded at least. So something very screwy in Warp 9 :(
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by Zogging Hell »

I vaguely remember a magazine article saying NVDI got a little bit slower at one point to improve compatibility, which version of NVDI are you using Exxos?

I've attached some scans of the ST applications review (apologies these were quick and nasty and St application magazines have a habit of going very brown) which has some benchmarks vs other screen accelerators, though inexplicably not NVDI. The benchmarks are on QIndex which might want to be taken with a pinch of salt as it was by the same company as Quick ST, Warp 9 iirc. Certainly I remember Turbo ST being outrageously fast (from a user feel perspective I always felt it performed better in terms of speed than Warp 9, but that is a personal opinion), but also incompatible as hell to go with it. It is interesting to note the speed bump you get with various options in the Warp 9 config.

I'm sure there was a better comparison in either a late ST Review or an Atari world but can't dig them out at the moment.
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by Zogging Hell »

Sorry those were in reverse order
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by exxos »

Thanks for the scans interesting stuff. The CPX loads up ok, & says warp9 is ON. But it does nothing.

The versions I used are posted on the images in my top post.

I used to use "turbo ST" or might have been "quick ST".. I did post here about it a few years ago as there was only a demo of Turbo ST. I know it made GEM windows open and close a lot faster and that kinda stuff, but I think it turned off after half a hour as it was a demo. I asked about it being hacked, but others suggested Warp9 was a much faster program anyway, and others probably suggested NVDI as well.

NVDI seems to do a lot better on VDI graphics than warp 9 looking at the results. Though overall there isn't much between them. I still think Warp9 was faster in GEM desktop. Though GEM WINDOW is 230% vs 193% so Warp9 is faster in benchmarking that bit.

Really odd that Warp9 has 83% on VDI graphics, and yet NVDI has 250%. VDI scroll is faster in Warp9, I think those tests fly by compared to NVDI.

But however you look at it, if NVDI is the only thing that works properly, then that is the only choice. I suppose if it was possible to re-hash Warp9 to use NVDI's VDI stuff, then Warp9 would out perform NDVI in just about everything. But of course, Warp 9 is unstable for some reason as I found out yesterday while testing 16mhz modes. Actually even 8mhz mode on the booster causes Warp9 to malfunction. So god knows why that happened.

I don't think anyone is going to spend huge amounts of time in fixing Warp 9 anyway. Not when NVDI is about the same speed overall.
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by Zogging Hell »

Yeah it is pretty pointless on anything other than a base ST, but on that I've found it quite acceptable. I'm not sure Gembench is to be entirely trusted, it gives some odd results sometimes. One version I used had all my unmodified STs running at 99% of the full speed of an ST with a clean OS, which is really odd.
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by exxos »

Zogging Hell wrote:Yeah it is pretty pointless on anything other than a base ST, but on that I've found it quite acceptable. I'm not sure Gembench is to be entirely trusted, it gives some odd results sometimes. One version I used had all my unmodified STs running at 99% of the full speed of an ST with a clean OS, which is really odd.

Yeah the default values are not correct, but it also depends on what version of TOS you are running.

There is some files with gembench which I assume are the default values, They are just numbers, so I assume it is a ms time count of how long instructions took to run. Its on my to do list to fiddle with those numbers. Though I think it is possible the "default" values are hard coded into Gembench :(

I assume the machine used when Gembench was created must have had a 8mhz clock which was running slightly to fast. So when others run the software, we see 99% figures etc.
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by exxos »

It looks like you get more options in the registered version of gembench, possible could alter the default tests there. But I don't know of anyone who ever registered it. I sent a email to Ofir Gal, though I suspect since 1994 the email address be no longer valid. It would be awesome to get the source for gembench. Though I think its pretty impossible after all these years :(
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by Zogging Hell »

I take it you got a response then? :)
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by exxos »

Zogging Hell wrote:I take it you got a response then? :)
Yes :) Its how I molished up a registration file for it :)
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by Zogging Hell »

Nice result :cheers:
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by kodak80 »

Hot off the scanner, issue 4 of Atari ST Review has this performance review which includes WARP9 and NVDI plus some others. Hope this is of interest.
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by exxos »

Interesting stuff thanks :)

Odd how it says WARP9 doesn't take advantage of the blitter. I have not tried those tests yet. But overall, NVDI seems to be the way to go. If NVDI is working to help speed up the blitter, then it would shot past WARP9 results for sure anyway. So while Warp9 is faster, its only useful for a stock STFM machine. Even so, some apps might not like Warp9 anyway. So everything overall is leaning towards NVDI. I don't think there is much use testing out other apps either.
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by qq1975b »

Is NVDI as fast as Turbo ST and also more or less compatible with software too?
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by exxos »

I've not tried TurboST, never seen it about, though never looked :lol:
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Re: WARP9 vs NVDI - results

Post by Zogging Hell »

I used to use it a while back on my Mega (when I say a while I mean 5+ years ago). I would say it *felt* the fastest of all, but it did have compatibility issues with some (probably less well behaved) programs compared to NVDI (although to be fair this wasn't that much of a problem, far less than say Mint causes). There were two programs which were seperate for mono and colour displays so it was a bit of a hassle if you wanted to swap monitors. I also doubt it would work on a Falcon or anything newer than a base ST.
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