TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

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Rustynutt
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TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by Rustynutt »

Was (first time) using TT Digger (V6.X) tonight.
Wanted to load a TOS 4.04 image from disk. Wasn't sure which load option allowed for this.

So I used load from ROM.
On top of the working window it shows US TOS 4.04.
Odd thing is, EmuTOS is in ROM in this case.

Scrolled through the file, not knowing too much about what I was looking at, but didn't notice any non-English in the file. The EmuTOS in ROM is stripped for English only.

So assuming TT Digger sees it's a Falcon, and assumes it's TOS 4.04 (for file name only)?
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by lp »

Might want to update Digger to version v8.1, but I think the website is down.
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by Rustynutt »

Oh wow.
Thanks lp :)
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by ThorstenOtto »

lp wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:23 pm I think the website is down.
Its available at ftp://kurobox.serveftp.net:3021/program ... gger81.zip
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by Rustynutt »

Got it, thank you!
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by Badwolf »

Rustynutt wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:06 am So assuming TT Digger sees it's a Falcon, and assumes it's TOS 4.04 (for file name only)?
No, that image of EmuTOS is the one I built for you that has only US English (UNIQUE=us) and has its version set to 4.04. That's how you got some of your Falcon-only programs to work.

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Falcdate Use the internet to work around dead Falcon NVRAM battery
Smalliermouse ST-optimised USB mouse adapter based on SmallyMouse2
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by Rustynutt »

Right, scrolling down I'd seen English only.

I'll reply back trying the latest version. I'd seen 68060 support and thought that the latest. Show how far behind I am, heck that was 2002 or so :)

Save another post, I'll be looking for what TT Digger disassembles and trying to match what I see in the Atari Compendium with respect to using the blitter.
If I find what I'm looking for, and change it to not present, will TOS try to display whatever it is ( thinking the Fuji logo) and use other routines, or should it just be NOP?

Hope that makes sense.

Alternately, preferred, find where COMBEL switches from 8MHz to 16MHz, and leave it at 8MHz.

Definitely on a learning phase here.
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by mikro »

There are no "other routines", that's the reason why you have to use NVDI to avoid the Blitter ones.
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by Rustynutt »

Right.
Looking at how the Compendium "Blitmode()" defines usage,
BLIT_SOFT "if set, use hardware BLiTTER chip, otherwise use software routines".

So I'm guessing if not set, TOS will either puke when it attempts to draw the Logo to screen, or ignores it (wishful thinking).

Right now looking at 68K for kindergartners.
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by ThorstenOtto »

Rustynutt wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:13 am So I'm guessing if not set, TOS will either puke when it attempts to draw the Logo to screen, or ignores it (wishful thinking).
Haven't looked at tos 4.04 yet, but in tos 3.x the logo (and also the "bombs") are drawn with neither the blitter nor with other VDI routines, they are just directly written to screen.
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by Rustynutt »

Kind of going with what others have thought/said over time.

Testing various oscillator speeds under TOS, 40MHz is max without the machine not booting.

With EmuTOS, booting with 55MHz is possible.

Using a speeder as Nemesis, a Falcon can boot at 40MHz, then switch to the higher speed. Until the BLiTTER is used.
NVDI prevents crashes under those circumstances.

EmuTOS in ROM has been great testing various clock patches and limits of the stock Falcon. When the Afterburner is reinstalled, I'll need to move back to TOS in ROM as it's required by the driver to set the board up. The AB Tool kits doesn't know what to do with EmuTos.

To keep the current setup with 27.5/55MHz clock, either the BLiTTER use will have to be patched out, or changing TOS to remain at 8MHz BUS (1/4 clock) until reaching the desk top, where it can be reset to normal for COMBEL output.

I've tested the idea 2 ways.
Booting the Falcon with a 24MHz main oscillator demonstrates it will operate at 6/12MHz start up.

2nd test was booting the Falcon diagnostic cartridge with 55 MHz oscillator.
With the BLiTTER set to run 1/2 CPU, the test is successful. With BLiTTER set to CPU speed, the test fail.

I've tried every angle I can think of :)
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by Rustynutt »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:41 pm
lp wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:23 pm I think the website is down.
Its available at ftp://kurobox.serveftp.net:3021/program ... gger81.zip
Spent some hours with this version, it's pretty robust. Had the PC running a few different binary editors side by side, TT Digger gives nothing away, plus it's running on the Falcon and can load ROM images direct from machine.
Happy Camper :)
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by Rustynutt »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:03 am
Rustynutt wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:13 am So I'm guessing if not set, TOS will either puke when it attempts to draw the Logo to screen, or ignores it (wishful thinking).
Haven't looked at tos 4.04 yet, but in tos 3.x the logo (and also the "bombs") are drawn with neither the blitter nor with other VDI routines, they are just directly written to screen.
3:12 am :)

Couldn't sleep after coming up with a few different ways to attack my little problem.

Since I'm the king of off topic....

Plan A:

JoEven mentioned having sources for the TKROM Afterburner driver.

Compile the driver where instead of loading TOS from ROM, load TOS from an image file.
(come on JoEven, simple for you :lol: )

This way, EmuTOS remains in ROM, TOS is loaded from an image file by the AB driver, patched, and it's warm reset boots the AB from patched TOS in RAM.

Both EmuTOS and TOS are left untouched by user (or not as desired, just make sure the loader isn't looking for a predetermined file length).

To me, this is the cleanest method.

DML, where are you? :)

Realize everyone's time is valuable, so could move along these lines as well.

Have an idea building a socketed dual ROM board.

Similarly, leaving TOS in ROM, EmuTOS in a cartridge ROM, disabling the cartridge before the onboard TOS looks for the "Magic" number just prior to the warm reset.

Umm, sounds tricky.

Can test the 3rd idea in the mean time.

Ok, 4:22 am, and shorten up as much as possible :)
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by mikro »

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious but why is this easier than patching the TOS image, flash it and, well, use it?
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by Eero Tamminen »

Badwolf wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:05 pm
Rustynutt wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:06 am So assuming TT Digger sees it's a Falcon, and assumes it's TOS 4.04 (for file name only)?
No, that image of EmuTOS is the one I built for you that has only US English (UNIQUE=us) and has its version set to 4.04. That's how you got some of your Falcon-only programs to work.
What programs require TOS version to be set to 4.04?

I'm asking because none of the non-working Falcon programs listed at end of this, say TOS version being a problem: https://hatari.tuxfamily.org/doc/emutos.txt
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by Badwolf »

Eero Tamminen wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:21 am What programs require TOS version to be set to 4.04?

I'm asking because none of the non-working Falcon programs listed at end of this, say TOS version being a problem: https://hatari.tuxfamily.org/doc/emutos.txt
Sorry, I don't know exactly. Rusty commented on some programs working after I built him a custom image of which setting TOS 4 rather than TOS 2 was the main change (the other being disabling blitter). Thinking about it, the release version of EmuTOS is still DSP-free so perhaps that would account for it instead.

I have seen a mis-identification of the machine based on TOS version in a few places, but haven't noted them I'm afraid. Some of PP's converted games, for example, but I think that's an excusable shortcut given the premise of his work.

I don't see the problem very much any more as I routinely compile EmuTOS as 4.04. I'll shout if I come across one in the future.

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Smalliermouse ST-optimised USB mouse adapter based on SmallyMouse2
DFB External 030 and AltRAM for the Falcon (under development)
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by Rustynutt »

I didn't note either. Mostly what I saw were messages the machine didn't have the hardware required, which as Badwolf says was "fixed" with his modified TOS.

My go-to test program is Apex Media. AIRC, it would load ok, however when loading a JPG file would freeze. Same with the Brainstorm JPG Decoder.
So, as he says, it's more of EmuTOS not fully supported DSP XBIOS.
It works, sort of, it made known to software it infact is running in a Falcon.
That's more indepth than I can comment.

V1.1 of EmuTOS is nearly ready for release.

Don't think the issue would be seen running an emulator. As I understand, they have DSP support.
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by Rustynutt »

mikro wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:47 am Sorry if I'm missing something obvious but why is this easier than patching the TOS image, flash it and, well, use it?
Easy for you.
For me, have to take the long road.
Would take me a year to begin to understand how to patch TOS.
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Re: TT Digger loading TOS from ROM

Post by Rustynutt »

ThorstenOtto wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:03 am
Rustynutt wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:13 am So I'm guessing if not set, TOS will either puke when it attempts to draw the Logo to screen, or ignores it (wishful thinking).
Haven't looked at tos 4.04 yet, but in tos 3.x the logo (and also the "bombs") are drawn with neither the blitter nor with other VDI routines, they are just directly written to screen.
You 2 can talk more intelligently about this :)

https://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 69#p414569
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