MiSTer frontend future

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kitrinx
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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by kitrinx »

redsteakraw wrote: First of which is a favorites list or continue playing being front and center. No one wants to scroll through a large list of games when you just want to continue where you left off.
Recents is already thing on MiSTer as of last week. Favorites could use mostly the same code if someone makes a UI modification to select favorites.
redsteakraw wrote:
Second is making use of meta data and statistics and allowing for people to do things such as show what you played in the last month or year or cores based off of use time. With that data can come to the third making use of that data for opt in sharing allowing to show what is popular what your friends are playing and social network integration. I don't think that aspect belongs in the menu FPGA per say but could be done with the linux core and just feed the menu simple information to display. Another thing that can be done possibly is achievements by looking at certain memory values you can see if a certain task or objective has been completed.
I couldn't disagree more with this. What kind of world do you live in where you have to automatically show people in such detail your game playing habits? Do you also record when you eat meals, or brush your teeth, so facebook can see?

In truth, not having any kind of graphics to deal with makes everything easier to setup, fast to operate, more portable, and from a code perspective, more simple and malleable to work with. We never needed that stuff, and a lot of us don't even want that stuff. Why do you need a picture of a snes when you select the word "SNES". Is this just something retroarch has trained people for? Maybe because I mostly only use flash carts, such things seem bloaty and useless to me.

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by redsteakraw »

kitrinx wrote: I couldn't disagree more with this. What kind of world do you live in where you have to automatically show people in such detail your game playing habits? Do you also record when you eat meals, or brush your teeth, so facebook can see?
People these days are vein they like sharing photos, videos and daily habits and while you may not be that kind of woman, but there are tones of people that take pictures of their meals and post it to social media. Look at fitbit / strava people are even sharing their workout routines. I don't see a problem with doing something like this. This can help with building a sense of community beyond the forums. Keep in mind all modern consoles have some sort of a share button this is well within modern habits. Furthermore we reached a new year(2774) wouldn't it be at least interesting for you to have a year in review of all the games played and be able to rank games by playtime or number of times played per year.
kitrinx wrote: In truth, not having any kind of graphics to deal with makes everything easier to setup, fast to operate, more portable, and from a code perspective, more simple and malleable to work with. We never needed that stuff, and a lot of us don't even want that stuff. Why do you need a picture of a snes when you select the word "SNES". Is this just something retroarch has trained people for? Maybe because I mostly only use flash carts, such things seem bloaty and useless to me.
What I am saying is just have a log file thats all, then some linux script parses said file and does whatever social or background task. The updater script hasn't added bloat to the menu ui and I don't expect this to. I specifically am fine with the UI, as it is, as it is fast has a low footprint and just works I just want to utilize and maximize potential within bounds and without rocking the boat.

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by angelicliver »

redsteakraw wrote:
Second is making use of meta data and statistics and allowing for people to do things such as show what you played in the last month or year or cores based off of use time. With that data can come to the third making use of that data for opt in sharing allowing to show what is popular what your friends are playing and social network integration. I don't think that aspect belongs in the menu FPGA per say but could be done with the linux core and just feed the menu simple information to display. Another thing that can be done possibly is achievements by looking at certain memory values you can see if a certain task or objective has been completed.
This is unwarranted bloat, nobody cares if you've played 500+ hours of Rise of Robots or you got the 'Princess is in another castle' achievement.

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by djmartins »

angelicliver wrote:This is unwarranted bloat, nobody cares if you've played 500+ hours of Rise of Robots or you got the 'Princess is in another castle' achievement.
So you aren't interested in having your MiSTer connected to your Facebook account and auto post pics of your high scores?
How about linking to Twitter and sending tweets of those achievements automatically?
I think an addon board that makes my coffee for me and sends of pic of the coffee to my Facebook account would be GREAT!

:coffe:

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Newsdee
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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by Newsdee »

I can see a use to track recents or most played systems/cores to make it faster to launch things, but I couldn't care less about "social" sharing features.

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by Sorgelig »

redsteakraw wrote:Possibly there are things people are overlooking. I like the simplicity of the current UI. However there are quality of life improvements and other features that can improve the experience. First of which is a favorites list or continue playing being front and center. No one wants to scroll through a large list of games when you just want to continue where you left off. Second is making use of meta data and statistics and allowing for people to do things such as show what you played in the last month or year or cores based off of use time. With that data can come to the third making use of that data for opt in sharing allowing to show what is popular what your friends are playing and social network integration. I don't think that aspect belongs in the menu FPGA per say but could be done with the linux core and just feed the menu simple information to display. Another thing that can be done possibly is achievements by looking at certain memory values you can see if a certain task or objective has been completed.

So keep the menu as is and see how it can be pushed to the limits, and how it can improve your experience. I think the key is utilizing the linux core while not breaking the original menu so it can be used without it.
Good example of user lost in foreign woods.
Please come back to soft emulators - there you will find all you've wrote.
Or you can write the project for FPGA with all these features. Come back in 5-10 years if it will be enough for you to implement all this :mrgreen:

P.S.: yeah, yeah, i know, you are not developer, you are just user with full of wishes.. As usual...

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by boogermann »

I have been working on a UI and Backend to download cores and change settings for the past 2 months, I'm starting with 320x240 for the UI so people can use with CRT's but there's also gonna be a wide screen version with more stuff being displayed. Here's a sample of it
Image

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by softtest1 »

Please don't turn the MiSTer into some kind of spy device. I don't want any logs of what I play or anything else. Even the "Recently played" feature makes me a bit uncomfortable and I hope that it will always be optional.

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by sinisterspatula »

I'd love to see a remote control/network control option too, but I understand the issues behind that: adds unnecessary complexity to the project, could affect performance, and so I totally understand if that just isn't going to happen. I'm completely happy with the current interface. It's clean, it's fast, it's straight forward, it's easy to use, it's amazing. :D

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by Sorgelig »

softtest1 wrote:Please don't turn the MiSTer into some kind of spy device. I don't want any logs of what I play or anything else. Even the "Recently played" feature makes me a bit uncomfortable and I hope that it will always be optional.
MiSTer tries to eliminate unintended writes to SD card, so such feature as "recents" will remain optional.

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by Sorgelig »

boogermann wrote:I have been working on a UI and Backend to download cores and change settings for the past 2 months, I'm starting with 320x240 for the UI so people can use with CRT's but there's also gonna be a wide screen version with more stuff being displayed. Here's a sample of it
Image
How this UI is displayed? Is it Linux app or FPGA core?

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by Lightwave »

When I first saw the MiSTer menu, I thought it was too simple.

After using it, I realized that simplicity is its beauty :)

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by angelotax »

redsteakraw wrote:Possibly there are things people are overlooking. I like the simplicity of the current UI. However there are quality of life improvements and other features that can improve the experience. First of which is a favorites list or continue playing being front and center. No one wants to scroll through a large list of games when you just want to continue where you left off. Second is making use of meta data and statistics and allowing for people to do things such as show what you played in the last month or year or cores based off of use time. With that data can come to the third making use of that data for opt in sharing allowing to show what is popular what your friends are playing and social network integration. I don't think that aspect belongs in the menu FPGA per say but could be done with the linux core and just feed the menu simple information to display. Another thing that can be done possibly is achievements by looking at certain memory values you can see if a certain task or objective has been completed.
That is already available in every commercial gaming client on the Market.
Try GOG Galaxy if you like these things. It can incorporate all your stats from all the systems including consoles, Steam, origin, epic ecc.
Hower, i don't understand why these things are wanted for a project featuring accurate hardware recreation of old systems.
It's useless stuff and simply out of scope for this project.

Oh and allow me to simplify your life a little bit: nobody cares about your stats; seriously,i get you like to share, but it is completely pointless.
Nobody comes on your profile and looks at them. Never.
I'm not meaning to be rude at all or patronizing, but just, please, stop caring about this useless stuff all togheter , you'll fell much, much better.

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by wesclemens »

I prefer the simplified UI. I hope that if a more complex UI is added that we will keep an option to use the simplified UI. That being said. I do thing that some quality of life changes would be nice.

Filenames being truncated have been a challenge for me. When the file is in focus its nice that it marquees over the full filename but I really don't enjoy the shell game experience when looking for a specific version of the file. Taking @derFunkenstein example, I feel that we can truncate somewhere in the middle of the filename making the experience slightly better. This would be super helpful when having multiple revisions of the same game in the same folder.

So:

Code: Select all

Sonic & Knuckles + Sonic The Hedgehog
Sonic & Knuckles + Sonic The Hedgehog 2
Sonic & Knuckles + Sonic The Hedgehog 3
Would be seen as:

Code: Select all

Sonic & Knuck...dgehog
Sonic & Knuck...ehog 2
Sonic & Knuck...ehog 3
The second change that I feel would improve the MiSTer experience is removing the default ROMs being loaded from boot.rom and have them be stored in the cores saved configuration. This way one could save the boot ROM they wished to be used at core load and change it easily. MiSTer would also have the defaults cores ROM filename and it could be used to fix the save state issue that exists with the boot.rom.

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by redsteakraw »

angelotax wrote: Try GOG Galaxy if you like these things. It can incorporate all your stats from all the systems including consoles, Steam, origin, epic ecc.
Hower, i don't understand why these things are wanted for a project featuring accurate hardware recreation of old systems.
It's useless stuff and simply out of scope for this project.

Oh and allow me to simplify your life a little bit: nobody cares about your stats; seriously,i get you like to share, but it is completely pointless.
Nobody comes on your profile and looks at them. Never.
I'm not meaning to be rude at all or patronizing, but just, please, stop caring about this useless stuff all togheter , you'll fell much, much better.
I was just thinking about what can be done if we had optional logs that's all. A linux command or program can parse the logs and push it off for processing or sending tweets or other social media interaction using the linux scripts interface much like the update script. All the menu would have to do is log it's interaction. The Cyclone V FPGA has a fully functional ARM core running Linux taking advantage of that for some (optional) niceties. MiSTer already modifies stock memory values with its own built game genie, MiSTer also has screenshot support and other features a nonstock system would have. All I am saying is logs can be useful and can be utilized in many different ways. I am sure you can come up with a use case yourself. Maybe I am wrong and literally no one will find any use for this. At the very least the favorites list was a decent Idea and the rest was crazy.

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by djmartins »

angelotax wrote:That is already available in every commercial gaming client on the Market.
If everyone else was jumping off the bridge would you jump too?

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by Sorgelig »

wesclemens wrote:Would be seen as:

Code: Select all
Sonic & Knuck...dgehog
Sonic & Knuck...ehog 2
Sonic & Knuck...ehog 3
While i agree to cut in the middle, there is no specific rule where exactly to truncate.
wesclemens wrote:The second change that I feel would improve the MiSTer experience is removing the default ROMs being loaded from boot.rom and have them be stored in the cores saved configuration. This way one could save the boot ROM they wished to be used at core load and change it easily. MiSTer would also have the defaults cores ROM filename and it could be used to fix the save state issue that exists with the boot.rom.
Laziness is not always locomotive of progress. Sometimes it's pure laziness. You press thousand times while playing the game, don't be lazy to choose the ROM. Especially with recents you can choose it from the short list.

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by Sorgelig »

djmartins wrote:
angelotax wrote:That is already available in every commercial gaming client on the Market.
If everyone else was jumping off the bridge would you jump too?
You will, definitely, according to your previous post ;)

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by djmartins »

Sorgelig wrote:
djmartins wrote:
angelotax wrote:That is already available in every commercial gaming client on the Market.
If everyone else was jumping off the bridge would you jump too?
You will, definitely, according to your previous post ;)
Experience shows most people will jump.
How else do you get everyone else jumping off the bridge?

I've been told I am more of the type to sell tickets to the Jump Off The Bridge Show.

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by wesclemens »

Sorgelig wrote:Laziness is not always locomotive of progress. Sometimes it's pure laziness. You press thousand times while playing the game, don't be lazy to choose the ROM. Especially with recents you can choose it from the short list.
I agree that this isn't really needed. My desire isn't to avoid picking the ROM as you pointed out this is not much effort at all. I just find it inconstant that all the configurations can be saved in the frontend except the default ROM. It should also be noted ao486 allows you to save the default hard drive from the menu and some cores require that you name the boot rom boot.rom other require boot1.rom and now some but not all can be placed in bootrom/<core>.rom.

If we are looking to improve the user experience of the frontend I believe that it is key that we provide consistent experience between cores. It would also help lower the bar for entry with MiSTer.

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by Sorgelig »

1) all cores supporting boot.rom also support bootrom/<core>.com and <core>.rom in the root folder.
2) boot0-3.rom are specific to core. some cores require more than one rom.
3) loading the game rom as boot.rom is basically abuse the feature. This is the way to load bios and other companion roms. it's never supposed to load the game like this. It's for some consoles which don't initialize the video without the rom when you use CRT (HDMI has no such problem). So it's kind of workaround. Not the normal use. Basically each such console should have a small stub ROM displaying some static picture for a single purpose - initialize the video, so user can open OSD and choose the game.

Correct way is to launch the core and choose the game ROM from OSD.

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by Sorgelig »

Some people want a fancy picture for the core. So boot.rom can be used to display such picture. It will be more pleasant to see a welcome picture after loading the core than some game making the feel you a late to the party which is already begun.
But it will require to code a simple rom to provide such picture... No one wants to do it, alas..

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by flain »

boogermann wrote:I have been working on a UI and Backend to download cores and change settings for the past 2 months, I'm starting with 320x240 for the UI so people can use with CRT's but there's also gonna be a wide screen version with more stuff being displayed. Here's a sample of it
Image
Looks nice and simple, i like it!

I agree with the general sentiment that overly fancy frontends (like hyperspin for example) are too over the top and become annoying. However i think there is room for some middle ground where one could be better to look at while at the same time providing a simpler interface that is both easier and faster to use.

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by cacophony »

flain wrote:
boogermann wrote:I have been working on a UI and Backend to download cores and change settings for the past 2 months, I'm starting with 320x240 for the UI so people can use with CRT's but there's also gonna be a wide screen version with more stuff being displayed. Here's a sample of it
Image
Looks nice and simple, i like it!

I agree with the general sentiment that overly fancy frontends (like hyperspin for example) are too over the top and become annoying. However i think there is room for some middle ground where one could be better to look at while at the same time providing a simpler interface that is both easier and faster to use.
Agreed, I think that concept image looks great!

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Re: MiSTer frontend future

Post by softtest1 »

The concept UI has spots for game release date and a screenshot or box art. This will very often look out of place, unless you maintain a database that includes every single game on a user's SD card or harddrive. And even if you do that, there is the issue of how do you detect the games? Will there be a scanner like in RetroArch? You do what you want, but I would highly recommend to not attempt to display box art and the like.

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