NeoGeo topic

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Threepwood
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Re: Bios Issue Maybe? Help!

Post by Threepwood »

Chris23235 wrote: I had the exact same error (and graphical corruption in many games) on the NeoGeo core with a faulty SD-RAM module that also passed the Memtest for more than 1 hour without errors. SD-RAM module. Everything works fine with the new module the seller send me in exchange, so I can say for sure that passing the memtest does not mean the module is good.
Interesting, I was under the assumption that memtest would unveil if the RAM has a defect, in every instance.

In that case I, too, bet on faulty RAM.
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Re: Bios Issue Maybe? Help!

Post by mike4t5 »

Chris23235 wrote:
Threepwood wrote: Thank you, if you have a fan then heat is indeed no issue. Your RAM runs flawless at 130MHz, that should be more than sufficient (?), too.

You confirmed that the neogeo.rbf is not damaged, either?
I had the exact same error (and graphical corruption in many games) on the NeoGeo core with a faulty SD-RAM module that also passed the Memtest for more than 1 hour without errors. SD-RAM module. Everything works fine with the new module the seller send me in exchange, so I can say for sure that passing the memtest does not mean the module is good.
Thanks Chris
That might be my next option to be fair. I've tried everything i can think off with the help from Treepwood and no luck. I just finished trying it with a fresh install on new sd card and still no luck also tried a different unzipping software (I wasnt using 7zip before) and still no luck.. I was suggested to use the .neo roms so what ill do when it finises downloading ill give that a go if i get no luck with that then i'll get a replacement SD-ram module. I will get back to you all once I've tested the .neo roms (i don't have much hope for them but :shrug: what else can i do aye )
Chris23235
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Re: Bios Issue Maybe? Help!

Post by Chris23235 »

Threepwood wrote:
Chris23235 wrote: I had the exact same error (and graphical corruption in many games) on the NeoGeo core with a faulty SD-RAM module that also passed the Memtest for more than 1 hour without errors. SD-RAM module. Everything works fine with the new module the seller send me in exchange, so I can say for sure that passing the memtest does not mean the module is good.
Interesting, I was under the assumption that memtest would unveil if the RAM has a defect, in every instance.

In that case I, too, bet on faulty RAM.
As far as I understand it, the Memtest tries if the memory is stable at certain frequencies, I don't think the test tries if every byte of the memory chip itself is worling or not. For instance look at the built in memory test of the Atari ST, it takes about 2 minutes to check the 4 Megabyte RAM, for 128 MB it would take a very long time to check the whole memory.
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Re: Bios Issue Maybe? Help!

Post by Sorgelig »

Chris23235 wrote: As far as I understand it, the Memtest tries if the memory is stable at certain frequencies, I don't think the test tries if every byte of the memory chip itself is worling or not. For instance look at the built in memory test of the Atari ST, it takes about 2 minutes to check the 4 Megabyte RAM, for 128 MB it would take a very long time to check the whole memory.
Not correct. Every byte of whole RAM is tested. And it uses random values, so basically all possible problems with addresses or bits will be detected.
Atari test uses its CPU which is very slow comparing to cpu-less test in memtest.
Why successfully passed in memtest module sometimes may fail in other cores - it's not clear. Probably some parasite signals may affect work on specific frequencies. Or SDRAM controllers in some cores may work a little differently.
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bootsector
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by bootsector »

Is it only random patterns used by memtest? Is that possible to use those well known byte patterns used by memory test programs on PC as well?
Sorgelig
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by Sorgelig »

I don't see how random per address values can be worse than patterns of fixed values.
mutmuthux
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by mutmuthux »

Sorgelig wrote:I don't see how random per address values can be worse than patterns of fixed values.
i dont think its worse, but the fixed patterns are specific algorithems designed to produce errors by flipping bits next to each other to reproduce the scenerios that cause faulty memory to fail hard.

having said that, i dont think its a hard requirement for MiSTer to go overboard on memtest, very much a case of diminishing returns ..

here's a description of a popular software's two main patterns
MemTest86 uses two algorithms that provide a reasonable approximation of the ideal test strategy above. The first of these strategies is called moving inversions. The moving inversion test works as follows:
Fill memory with a pattern
Starting at the lowest address
check that the pattern has not changed
write the patterns complement
increment the address
repeat
Starting at the highest address
check that the pattern has not changed
write the patterns complement
decrement the address
repeat

This algorithm is a good approximation of an ideal memory test but there are some limitations. Most high density chips today store data 4 to 16 bits wide. With chips that are more than one bit wide it is impossible to selectively read or write just one bit. This means that we cannot guarantee that all adjacent cells have been tested for interaction. In this case the best we can do is to use some patterns to insure that all adjacent cells have at least been written with all possible one and zero combinations.

It can also be seen that caching, buffering and out of order execution will interfere with the moving inversions algorithm and make less effective. It is possible to turn off cache but the memory buffering in new high performance chips can not be disabled. To address this limitation a new algorithm I call Modulo-X was created. This algorithm is not affected by cache or buffering. The algorithm works as follows:

For starting offsets of 0 - 20 do
write every 20th location with a pattern
write all other locations with the patterns complement
repeat above one or more times
check every 20th location for the pattern

This algorithm accomplishes nearly the same level of adjacency testing as moving inversions but is not affected by caching or buffering. Since separate write passes (1a, 1b) and the read pass (1c) are done for all of memory we can be assured that all of the buffers and cache have been flushed between passes. The selection of 20 as the stride size was somewhat arbitrary. Larger strides may be more effective but would take longer to execute. The choice of 20 seemed to be a reasonable compromise between speed and thoroughness.
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by aluzed »

Hi, for the green pop up, I guess it is due to an encrypted rom. It might be a bad dump, try to change your rom, or try to generate a darkset rom from Neorage X rom.
Chris23235
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Re: Bios Issue Maybe? Help!

Post by Chris23235 »

Sorgelig wrote:
Chris23235 wrote: As far as I understand it, the Memtest tries if the memory is stable at certain frequencies, I don't think the test tries if every byte of the memory chip itself is worling or not. For instance look at the built in memory test of the Atari ST, it takes about 2 minutes to check the 4 Megabyte RAM, for 128 MB it would take a very long time to check the whole memory.
Not correct. Every byte of whole RAM is tested. And it uses random values, so basically all possible problems with addresses or bits will be detected.
Atari test uses its CPU which is very slow comparing to cpu-less test in memtest.
Why successfully passed in memtest module sometimes may fail in other cores - it's not clear. Probably some parasite signals may affect work on specific frequencies. Or SDRAM controllers in some cores may work a little differently.
Thanks for the info. I guess the SDRAM controller can be ruled out in my specific case, because the replacement I got from the seller was built from identical parts and it works flawless. What I don't understand, if parasite signals may affect work on specific frequencies, why does it work in the memtest, but not in the core? Do both make use of the RAM in different ways?
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Re: Bios Issue Maybe? Help!

Post by Sorgelig »

Chris23235 wrote: Thanks for the info. I guess the SDRAM controller can be ruled out in my specific case, because the replacement I got from the seller was built from identical parts and it works flawless. What I don't understand, if parasite signals may affect work on specific frequencies, why does it work in the memtest, but not in the core? Do both make use of the RAM in different ways?
FPGA is not like computer. In FPGA you deal with HW directly, so some specific timings may affect the work.
If someone can come out with better memtest catching all these weird cases, then it would be good.
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Re: Bios Issue Maybe? Help!

Post by mike4t5 »

Chris23235 wrote:
Threepwood wrote: Thank you, if you have a fan then heat is indeed no issue. Your RAM runs flawless at 130MHz, that should be more than sufficient (?), too.

You confirmed that the neogeo.rbf is not damaged, either?
I had the exact same error (and graphical corruption in many games) on the NeoGeo core with a faulty SD-RAM module that also passed the Memtest for more than 1 hour without errors. SD-RAM module. Everything works fine with the new module the seller send me in exchange, so I can say for sure that passing the memtest does not mean the module is good.
:D So it looks like you was correct about it being a ram issue. i just got my replacement one and it's now all working perfectly!! Thanks for the advice. Its just a bit odd that it was showing perfectly fine on the mem test.
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bootsector
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by bootsector »

I'm curious to see how those "faulty" RAM (and also "non-faulty" ones) behave on SNES core with these two specific games:

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SNES_MiSTer/issues/204

and

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SNES_MiSTer/issues/202

PS.: if this is considered off-topic, moderator, please feel free to remove this post
mike4t5
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by mike4t5 »

bootsector wrote:I'm curious to see how those "faulty" RAM (and also "non-faulty" ones) behave on SNES core with these two specific games:

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SNES_MiSTer/issues/204

and

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SNES_MiSTer/issues/202

PS.: if this is considered off-topic, moderator, please feel free to remove this post
I will have a look for you as i still have the faulty ram! let me run a test or 2 and get back to you!
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by mike4t5 »

bootsector wrote:I'm curious to see how those "faulty" RAM (and also "non-faulty" ones) behave on SNES core with these two specific games:

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SNES_MiSTer/issues/204

and

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SNES_MiSTer/issues/202

PS.: if this is considered off-topic, moderator, please feel free to remove this post
Just as a quick update, it works 100% fine with my faulty ram in. That doesn't seem to be your issue.
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bootsector
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by bootsector »

mike4t5 wrote:
bootsector wrote:I'm curious to see how those "faulty" RAM (and also "non-faulty" ones) behave on SNES core with these two specific games:

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SNES_MiSTer/issues/204

and

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/SNES_MiSTer/issues/202

PS.: if this is considered off-topic, moderator, please feel free to remove this post
Just as a quick update, it works 100% fine with my faulty ram in. That doesn't seem to be your issue.
Thank you! I really appreciate that you took the time to test those!
Chris23235
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Re: Bios Issue Maybe? Help!

Post by Chris23235 »

mike4t5 wrote:
Chris23235 wrote:
Threepwood wrote: Thank you, if you have a fan then heat is indeed no issue. Your RAM runs flawless at 130MHz, that should be more than sufficient (?), too.

You confirmed that the neogeo.rbf is not damaged, either?
I had the exact same error (and graphical corruption in many games) on the NeoGeo core with a faulty SD-RAM module that also passed the Memtest for more than 1 hour without errors. SD-RAM module. Everything works fine with the new module the seller send me in exchange, so I can say for sure that passing the memtest does not mean the module is good.
:D So it looks like you was correct about it being a ram issue. i just got my replacement one and it's now all working perfectly!! Thanks for the advice. Its just a bit odd that it was showing perfectly fine on the mem test.
Yeah, it was exactly the same with me, didn't thought it could be the RAM at first either.
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by solo20 »

did something change on the core when i play kof94 and i move character around some times it glitches around the character . it didnt do this befor not sure if its the cores or the de-10
Chris23235
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by Chris23235 »

The core was updated to the latest framework, but I don't think this should be the reason for glitches, have you tried an older version of the core to see if the glitches are there too?
solo20
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by solo20 »

went back to NeoGeo_20200325 still getting the glitches ghosting example sometimes part of ryo body will appear in a different part of the screen then disappear happens alot in the stage where you fight Chang the fat guy with the ball chain Korea Team let him just grab you so you can see the glitches or just play into you see them.
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by solo20 »

made a video download to see what i mean https://easyupload.io/nuf5jd

i have been useing a crt maybe you cant see glitches on there but now iam useing hdmi i can see them
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by Dubon »

Furrtek, who originally created the core announced on twitter that he will fix some things so maybe this bug will also be adressed.
https://twitter.com/furrtek/status/1259505327495667715
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by cugel »

I've run into something this morning where I can't seem to get unibios region/console settings to survive a mister reboot or a reload of the core, it keeps reverting to the default of Europe/Console.
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by Sigismond0 »

As far as I know, that's normal. Unibios settings don't save unless you make a game save file after setting them. This has to be done for each and every game that you want to make Unibios settings for..
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Re: NeoGeo topic

Post by cugel »

Sigismond0 wrote:As far as I know, that's normal. Unibios settings don't save unless you make a game save file after setting them. This has to be done for each and every game that you want to make Unibios settings for..
I reformatted my sd card yesterday and forgot I needed to turn autosave back on. :oops: Thanks for the reminder.
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